Gestalt Samurai/Samurai Tier?

[Tarlek Flamehai]

So I was thinking about the Samurai. If you remade the class as a gestalt of the CW and the OA classes and allowed the bonus feats to be any Fighter Bonus, Tactical, Style, Ancestor, Clan Technique(RCS), Void Use(RCS), or Ki Shout feat(RCS); what Tier would they be?

[illyahr]

It would be a Fighter with some fear-based abilities (not usefull at high levels) and built-in TWF. I would still call it Tier 5. An OA samurai is basically a fighter with Japanese flavor.

[Dusk Raven]

They do, however, have a rather interesting ability which increases their purchasing power, as far as their signature weapons go...

[elonin]

I don't know about tiers, but think they wouldn't be much better than a straight fighter. I'm curious why you are taking two similar classes on a gestalt.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Not really a gestalt, just an attempt to improve the samurai. I had thought that access to more types of feats would improve them more. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

[T.G. Oskar]

Note that the 3rd-party feats, since they're not official, are harder to find than official content and are also frowned at, so their impact on tier ID is unknown.

Thus, based on what they both get...essentially, you're pretty much the same as a Fighter||CW Samurai gestalt who loses some feats for Ancestral Relic (BoED; same effect as Ancestral Daisho). In the end, you mostly get innate fear and TWF support (and the latter ONLY with two specific weapons, which you get as you start), but are functionally similar.

The problem with the CW Samurai is that it's the prime example of bad class design. Say all you want from the Monk, but at least some of its class features make sense. The CW Samurai is in essence a build in disguise - if a class only leads to one build, then it's bad class design. The CW Samurai doesn't grant any flexibility over TWF or Intimidate; only Kiai Smite does something different, and that is not something to brag about. You can't use, say, a build that reflects the reality of Samurai such as Mounted Archery, because they get ZERO support; a Fighter can make a real Samurai better than the CW Samurai, and when you get that, you have no choice but to accept the argument of bad class design. The Swashbuckler has options - as much as you can when limited to finessable weapons; the CW Samurai has no such luck.

That said - you could do something better. If you notice tactical feats, you could essentially collapse ALL of the Samurai class in one - to be honest, Kiai Smite is something you could get if you spent uses of Stunning Fist/Ki Shout to turn them into damage, and Mass Staredown/Improved Staredown could be turned into a tactical feat of some sort. Sure, it'd be a REALLY powerful Tactical feat, but given the multiple feats you need to gain access to one...then again, it's Grod's Law in action, so YMMV.

I know you probably made your mind, but to resume: anything bound with CW Samurai save for a VERY FEW exceptions will remain the same tier. Those exceptions will mostly include fear-based builds (a Fighter||Samurai gestalt with Zhentarim Fighter being an example) or when you have a specific build that requires good Charisma and free Martial Weapon/Heavy Armor/Shield proficiencies. You can realize how limited that can be.