20 Spell wizard (variant) PEACH

[Orzel]

Low level casters have too few spell slots so be good for 4-5 encounters. High level spellcasters have too many spell slots and caster levels, and so much dough that they can carry every obscure and near broken spell mutiple times without worry for 4-5 encounters.

The idea I was tinkering with having casters having a "set" number of spell a day at all levels. A lvl 1 wizard has 23 spells. A level 5 wizard has 23 spells.


The variant is each class X+Y number of spells per day. X is a fixed number (5 for paladins, 20 for generalist wizards, 30 for clerics, etc). Y is the modifier for their spellcasting attribute.

Cleric, Specialist wizard, Sorcerer: 30 spells per day
Druid: 25 spells per day
Generalist Wizard: 20 spells per day
Bard: 15 spells per day
Paladin, Ranger: 5 spells per day

The limitation!

You can only prepare or spontaneously cast a number of spells whose combined levels are less than or equal to 4 times your class level (2x for bard, pallies, and rangers, etc ).

Cleric, Specialist wizard, Sorcerer: 4 x level
Druid, Generalist Wizard: 3 x level
Bard, Paladin, Ranger: 2 x level


Other limitation!
Clerics must prepare 5 spells form their domains each day. If they do not appear in their normall spell list, they can only prepare them in one or more of these slots.

Specialist wizards must prepare 6 spells form their specialty school each day.

Max spell level
Maximum spell level castable is preserved

Other
Spontaneous casters drain spell slots and level when they cast spells.

Clerics and Druids must substitute a prepared spell of an equal or greater spell level to use their spontaneous casting.

For example.

Kon the 4 lvel ranger has 12 WIS. Therefore he has 6 spells and 8 spells levels. He can prepare 2 1st level spells and 3 2nd level spells. Or 6 1st level spells. Or 4 1st level and 2 2nd. etc

Jefius the 7th level bard with 16 CHA. He has 18 spells and 14 levels. Jefius casts Glibness. He is down 1 spell slot and 3 spell levels. If that was his first spell of the day, he now has 17 spells and 11 levels



"34 Magic Misslies a day!"- Lupa, evoker
"I'm a walking handful of CLW wands. All the time."- Father Mekan, cleric
"Bull's Strength thrice, Natue's Ally 1 once...." - Stabby Giantslayer

PEACH

[TheOOB]

This varient is too powerful for multiclassers, and too weak for single classers

Dipping into a spellcasting class suddenly becomes extreamly powerful, as you can get a large number of spells per day with minimal investment. Imagine a greatsword wielding warrior who takes a single level of cleric to gain 30d8+30 healing per day, or a rogue who takes a level of wizard to gain 20 true strikes for his sneak attacks.

And pure spellcasters gain very little ability to use their high level spells. A 20th level wizard can only have 80 spell levels. Sure they could get 8 9th level spells (which is a lot), but after that they got almost nothing. Primarly spellcasters only have spells, and if they cant use them all the time, they cant be useful all the time.

[Orzel]

I'm currently looking for a fix for multiclassing. The spells per day were based around the 10th level of each class.

The 8 9th level spells was part of the point. You could prepre/cast a load of your highest spells but when you run out, you have junk. But you have 7-8 of your highest spells ready. You can finish 4-5 encouters easy if you and your party are smart.

The difference is now you can't load your crappy 1-3 level slots with every broken spell without worry. Those 4 knocks sucked up 8 spell levels and 4 spells. No 3 wind walls "just in case". Buy a wand or eat arrow.

[Reinboom]

Letsee... 26 int wizard (16+4+6), so +8
28 spells per day. with 51 levels at level 17.

5 level 9 (+6 Levels) (So 6 level 9 spells with another level.)
6 level 8 (+3 Levels)
7 level 7 (+2 Levels)
8 level 6 (+3 Levels)
10 level 5 (+1 Level)
12 level 4 (+3 Levels)
17 level 3
25 level 2 (+1 Level)
28 level 1

So, the only thing the spells per day is restricting by then is level 1 spells.

A wizard can only cast normally 1 level 9 spell by that point. Or, if starting from 18 int, 2 level 9 spells.
Letsee, 42 levels after 1 level 9 spell is spent.
This leaves 5 level 7 spells that day. (Where a caster would normally have about 4 then.)

Compared from early on then.
3 level 1 spells right off. 6 level 1 spells at level 2.
7 level 1 spells and that 1 level 2 spell a person would use at level 3.
8 level 1 spells and 3 level 2 spells at level 4. (11)
2 level 3 spells, 2 level 2 spells, 5 level 1 spells at level 5 (9)
etc.

The spells per day is never really reached... It's only a bonus in that it does allow the wizard a bit of option room to breath, but there would be so much insane bookkeeping.

The levels limitation feels ok at lower levels, but kind of speaks out against the statement you made at first. At higher levels, it's a complete strangling. Especially in combination with the spell slots.

I would actually say this nerfs wizards a bit too much.

[TheOOB]

I would actually say this nerfs wizards a bit too much.

And thats not a line you'll hear often.

[Orzel]

what if I changed it to:

Spells per day:
Cleric, Specialist wizard, Sorcerer: 5 + 2x class level + Casting Mod
Druid: 2 + 2x class level + Casting Mod
Generalist Wizard: 2x class level + Casting Mod
Bard: 3 + class level + Casting Mod
Paladin, Ranger: class level + Casting Mod

Spell levels:
Cleric, Specialist wizard, Sorcerer: 4x level + 2x Casting Mod
Druid, Generalist Wizard: 3x level + 2x Casting Mod
Bard: 2x level + 2x Casting Mod
Palladin, Ranger: 2x level + Casting Mod


So a I6 Int lvl 1 spec. wizard gets 10 spells and 7 levels
At level 15 with 10 more In it's 43 spells and 68 levels

A normal wizard with those stats
5 spells and 6 levels at 1
38 spells and 51 levels at 15

[Reinboom]

Using my above example wizard then. (Level 17)
1 level 9
2 level 8
4 level 7
1 level 6
1 level 1

42 spell slots.
9... used on high levels.
That's a lot of level 0 spells :smallwink: (Which, as an avid lover of casters... I adore being able to 'spam' level 0 spells.)
The spell slots are still just strange to me in this case, I would have no idea how to actively play this caster when first handed to me in a campaign, since, I will be draining two resources at once. Which is an interesting idea none the less.

I would still say, for the point of levels, this is still a bit weak in the sense that it would just be uncomfortable to play, and I would still give it another slight boost, but feels better at least. Of course, this is also only comparing with the wizard. I'm unsure how this would fair with the sorcerer yet.
The 'target' I would feel 'safe' with:
1 level 9
2 level 8
4 level 7
5 level 6
--
Of course, this provides the issue of that these may all be spammed together into just level 9 spells. (9 level 9 spells, argh.)
This would be a difficult system to make 'balanced' and still 'fun' for everyone in my opinion.

This is, to me, stepping very close to a very strange point system as well.

[Orzel]

The idea is that class level is around double your highest castable spell level. So getting 4 or 3 times that you get 8-9 of your powerfuls spells and then junk. OR 20 of your mid level spells and junk. OR somewhere in the middle 4-5 high, 10 middle, and junk.

This way a caster can only fire 1-3 "save or X spells"/OMG power/ultrabuff an encounter. You can grab 20 buffs and never cast at an enemy. You can get ~10 of your highest level spells and pray for the best. You'll have to choose your spells wisely.

It's weird, that's true. My point is high level caster have way too many spell slots in the first place. Spells outside of your top 3 spell levels tend to be too weak to target foes, so players tend to jam their lower level spell slots with all broken ultility/defensive spells. When you can fill your 2nd level spells with Knocks and Rope Tricks because the 2nd level DC is too low to target non-mooks, something is wrong.

The Set number slots was to keep caster from doing that. Yo'ull think twice about 3 Knocks, 2 Invisiblities, a Rope trick, and a False life if it sucks up 1/3 of spells and slots.