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Wraithy
2007-06-10, 07:41 AM
i'm just designing a character incase my current one dies and i've gone for a scout of this race: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Squirrel_Folk_%28DnD_Race%29 with this flaw: (helpful) http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hallucinations_%28DnD_Flaw%29
i'll go for the spring attack feats, the alignment is LN, he has a high intelligence but low wisdom and i am making his hallucinations tell him that his party is trying to kill him.
i want to play him as a character who, although annoying to my friends characters, my friends themselves will enjoy adventuring with. this would include random battlecries such as: "the marbles in my ears are glowing with hatred" etc.
i was wondering if anyone (especially someone who has succesfully played a gnome) has ant tips or advice about playing a character who is annoying without ruining everyone else's gaming experience. also if anyone has some fun ideas about what i could hallucinate and whether i or the DM would controll the hallucinations?

Penguinsushi
2007-06-10, 08:10 AM
It's sort of a fine line. Remember that anything that annoys the characters can potentially annoy the players as well.

More than anything specific, my advice would be to take it easy and try to be particularly perceptive to the players' and gm's attitudes throughout the session. If you don't overdo it (thus, hogging the spotlight), the character can provide some interesting comic relief (for the players) without breaking the 'seriousness' of what's happening in the game.

Along that same line, remember that any joke gets old sooner or later. By playing this aspect of your character out in moderation, it will remain amusing for you an everyone else much longer. If you sense the other gamers are giving a "sheesh, not again..." response, you probably want to cut back a bit.


....and it sounds like you're fully capable of doing those things - I applaud you for taking the rest of the game (the other players, etc) into consideration when fleshing out your concept. That's something all players should do, but many do not. It's got to be fun for everyone, otherwise there's no point to playing.

~PS

Thrawn183
2007-06-10, 12:10 PM
"The marbles in my ears are glowing with hatred?"

I'm sorry, that's... just awesome.

Actually, I'm not sorry. Ahem* that's awesome.

Citizen Joe
2007-06-10, 01:29 PM
I'm not sure why others wouldn't just kill you outright or shoo you away. You don't seem to bring anything of worth to the table.

DraPrime
2007-06-10, 01:40 PM
Don't do an annoying character. An adventuring group is supposed to be a team, not a team and this one annoying guy that tags along and takes a share of the gold.

Wraithy
2007-06-10, 01:47 PM
i am a scout, i scout.
i scout, therefore i scout.
and considering he sways towards evil he would probably try to kill the party in their sleep for his own protection under the logic: "they don't want to help me because they want to kill me, i must kill them before they finish me off! isn't that right snappers?" *the imaginarry upright turtle nods and hands him a sword*

Tobrian
2007-06-10, 01:59 PM
It's sort of a fine line. Remember that anything that annoys the characters can potentially annoy the players as well.

More than anything specific, my advice would be to take it easy and try to be particularly perceptive to the players' and gm's attitudes throughout the session. If you don't overdo it (thus, hogging the spotlight), the character can provide some interesting comic relief (for the players) without breaking the 'seriousness' of what's happening in the game.

Along that same line, remember that any joke gets old sooner or later. (snip)
~PS

I must agree most strongly, a character that is build around a single gimmick or trait gets stale fast once the novelty has worn off.

And speaking for myself, there's nothing worse than an annoying PC or NPC that my character is not allowed to beat up/kill for some metagame reason even if said character really deserves it i.e. by singling out one PC and constantly playing "funny" pranks on him.

Rather make the character sympathetic, so that the other players have their characters adopt him as a group mascot. Or better yet, ask the other players first.


i'm just designing a character incase my current one dies and i've gone for a scout of this race: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Squirrel_Folk_%28DnD_Race%29 with this flaw: (helpful) http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hallucinations_%28DnD_Flaw%29

Squirrel Folk

Squirrel folk are nimble, alert, and utterly insane. They have an intense inborn paranoia that keeps them in an almost constant state of fear and burst into a panic at the drop of a hat.

Personality:

Squirrel folk are untrusting and irritating, constantly on the watch, checking for danger, or suspiciously questioning. Add to this their tendancy to speakrapidlysothatallthewordsseemtomerge and their high pitched voices and they are considerably unpleasant to communicate with.

(...)
Adventurers:

Because they see danger and enemies everywhere, many squirrels jump at the chance of being able to visit places where you immediately know just who is trying to kill you. Squirrels often have noticable friction with other party members because they are very slow to relax when amongst a group of well armed associates in places where a secret murder would be painfully easy. After enough life-threatening experiences they do grow to trust that their companions do not have any immediate plans on messily killing them, although that trust can still be easily broken.

(Does the sentence I highlighted even make sense?)

A creature I would love to strangle. Seriously, who came up with that stuff? It's like someone set out deliberately to fold all the traits of Annoying NPCs You Can't Get Rid Of(tm) into one race. And then added insanity. :smallmad:

Honestly if I was your GM I'd never allow fan-written stuff from the DandDWiki. THere's such a lot of **** there. The Squirrel Folk Racial Traits are a bit ridiculous. Completely useless in any kind of combat situation, gets panicked when flanked (even though it can never be flatfooted), but the author tried to come up with 100 ways to give them ridiculous AC bonuses so that they're practically unhittable.

Look at this:


"Constant fear: squirrel folk are perpetually shaken (...)"
"Fearful Evasiveness: As long as they are shaken squirrel folk have a +1 morale bonus to AC"
"Protective instincts: when cowering in fear, squirrels can tap into primal survival drive and adrenal reserves to increase their defence, dodging and twisting and curling up protectively with almost relfexive ease. While cowering attackers do not gain a +2 bonus against them and the squirrel folk get a +2 morale bonus to AC."

Very funny. :smallyuk:


i'll go for the spring attack feats, the alignment is LN, he has a high intelligence but low wisdom and i am making his hallucinations tell him that his party is trying to kill him.

WORST MOVE EVER. Are you deliberately trying to create a character that just exist to assassinate the rest of the group?? And low WIS, so that when you make the character do crazy stupid things you have a handy excuse?

Also, lawful alignment? These creatures sound like they're chaotic first and foremost.


i want to play him as a character who, although annoying to my friends characters, my friends themselves will enjoy adventuring with. this would include random battlecries such as: "the marbles in my ears are glowing with hatred" etc.

Um, are your friends the kind of people who enjoy random nonsense? And how many game sessions will this kind of joke stay funny?

----
EDITED to add:


Squirrel Folk Racial Traits:

* -2 cha, +2 dex: Squirrels are nimble and agile but have little confidence and are maddening to talk to.
* Small Size [<---gives AC bonus!]
(snip)
* Fearful Evasiveness: As long as they are shaken squirrel folk have a +1 morale bonus to AC
* Low light vision
* Constant alertness: Squirrel folk are never flat footed
* Constant fear: squirrel folk are perpetually shaken, suffering a -2 morale penalty to skills, saving throws, and attack rolls. A spell such as remove fear can temporarily negate this. They can also calm themselves down as a full-round action with a will save dc:15, but a loud noise, combat, or a situation where they can't take 10 on a skill check will start it again.
* -4 to saves against fear and confusion: Squirrel folk go easily into panicked frenzies.
* +3 jump and balance: squirrel folk are skilled at leaping and balance with their tails.
* +2 listen and spot: squirrel folk are always on the watch and always have their senses heightened by intense fear.
* +3 racial bonus to initiative checks and reflex saves: continually ready to spring to action squirrel folk are quick to react
* Paranoid insanity: squirrel folk have an initial reaction of unfriendly and bluff and diplomacy checks towards them suffer a -3 penalty, while intimidate checks made against them gain a +4 bonus
* +2 slight of hand and open lock
* +3 move silently: squirels are cautious and pad-footed, allowing them to sneak about unheard.
* Protective instincts: when cowering in fear, squirrels can tap into primal survival drive and adrenal reserves to increase their defence, dodging and twisting and curling up protectively with almost relfexive ease. While cowering attackers do not gain a +2 bonus against them and the squirrel folk get a +2 morale bonus to AC.
* Speak with squirrels(sp): squirrel folk can communicate with their rodent brethren as if by a constant speak with animals spell.
* Cornered panic: if a squirrel becomes flanked, it must make a will save dc:14+2 for each flanking creature or become confused for 1d6 rounds.
* Favored Class: Rogue
* LA: +0

So to sum it up a Squirrel Folk is permanently shaken (unless he's intimidated and cowering in fear) and forever flying in panicked frenzies trying to kill their allies, unless they're in actual combat against more than one enemy, then they because panicked AND confused. And also insane. Great.

Those +3 boni stink of home-brew, too. Usually, with d20, the boni are either +1 (to attack or AC), +2 (to attributes, saves, skill checks), +4 (skill checks) or +5 (skill checks). +3 usually only appears in the Skill Focus feat. +3 racial bonus to initiative checks and reflex saves? Hrm. :smallconfused:

I can spot overoptimization when I see it.

lordmarcoos
2007-06-10, 02:12 PM
I agree that it's most important to know what your fellows would enjoy. Saying that, you seem like you know well enough that they at least might enjoy it, I'd say it's at least worth a shot. Worst case, if he gets really old, him comically dying by walking into a hole covered up with his own illusions could be a fun way to end the annoyance. And as a scout concept, it'd definatly be possible to happen. I imagine the roleplay when the rest of the party sees his corpse on the bottom of an uncovered, spiked pit, and then decides to leave him there would be interesting.


Today 06:29 PM
Citizen Joe I'm not sure why others wouldn't just kill you outright or shoo you away. You don't seem to bring anything of worth to the table.

I presume what he's bringing to the table is a scout, which is probably something the party lacks currently

Tobrian
2007-06-10, 02:45 PM
and considering he sways towards evil he would probably try to kill the party in their sleep for his own protection under the logic: "they don't want to help me because they want to kill me, i must kill them before they finish me off! isn't that right snappers?" *the imaginarry upright turtle nods and hands him a sword*

You sound like you're getting off on the idea of playing a small annoying character who is forever threatening to kill the other PCs so that you can grin and nod at the other players and say ominous things like "Yeah my character is evil, y'know, he's like totally crazy, better watch out, man, he's gonna slit your wizard's throat when he sleeps, hehehe, not really, but you better be nice to him." and if they get angry and try to kill him your character can run away or scream and cower and no-one is able or allowed to hit him because he's a goddamn player character.

Sorry I once nearly walked out of a WoD: Changeling group midsession because the GM had been pulling bullcrap like that with an annoying Pookah NPC that was for all purposes unkillable because the GM did not allow our character to do anything except sit there and take those "funny pranks". And then he pretended that the NPC was Seelie fey. Sure. And the moon is made of cheese.

Wraithy
2007-06-10, 03:09 PM
the link i gave clearly says that squirrelfolk tend towards no particular alignment. i've done multiple alignment tests from the point of view of the character, all of which have turned out Lawful Neutral (and SLIGHTLY evil INCLINED) no CE random killings without reason. he will have 14int and 8-9wis, so he WON'T be hovering next to people babbling like an idiot. his reactions will be akin to a character from invader zim ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invader_zim ) . he won't be threatening to kill his group ever because he thinks that they are plotting against him allready.
my friends do like the random brand of comedy in moderation, so i will only be random to a standable point. my character is NOT a prankster.

"Yeah my character is evil, y'know, he's like totally crazy, better watch out, man, he's gonna slit your wizard's throat when he sleeps, hehehe, not really, but you better be nice to him." - that position in the group is allready filled by our resident changeling dragon shaman.

"Because they see danger and enemies everywhere, many squirrels jump at the chance of being able to visit places where you immediately know just who is trying to kill you. " this makes sense because there are no hidden cards or secret plots when you clearly know you're about to fight someone they can't poison your food etc. you are in high alert.

i can't remember what else i was going to say but the gist of it is that although i said annoying in the origional post i actually meant random.

Tobrian
2007-06-10, 03:28 PM
the link i gave clearly says that squirrelfolk tend towards no particular alignment. i've done multiple alignment tests from the point of view of the character, all of which have turned out Lawful Neutral (and SLIGHTLY evil INCLINED) no CE random killings without reason.

....except if he's delusional and hallucinates that the Giant Masked Sky Squirrel wants him to kill someone, he's still crazy and thus chaotic, because his hallucinations are not a defined code of behaviour.
(Unless we want to stretch the definition of "lawful" to mean everything including "follows his own convictions whenever he feels like it", a position that WotC seems to adopt recently. Meh.)

From your remarks it sounds like your group is already rather chaotic (not in terms of alignment, just player behaviour), and you expect your current Pc to die soon. If another PC is already threatening to kill others at the merest whim, are you (consciously or subconsciously) trying to make a character who is hard to hit and reflects your own underlying paranoia? what does your GM think about that group dynamic? :smalleek:

It's not healthy. I've seen people do stuff like that twice before ( -> playing crazy characters who ran around threatening to kill their own team mates at random) and it was highly annoying - esp in Shadowrun. I mean what the heck was he thinking? When we asked him he just said he was "bored". :smallconfused:

If you really want to go through with a delusional character, please ask your GM for appropriate ideas and implementation, not random people on the internet. Even if we give you advice or ideas, your GM is allowed to veto it anyway.



Family Life:

Squirrels stay together after mating for a short period of time as they grow to fear and suspect each other. Children leave home at an early age, either being abandoned as their parents grow to think they are plotting against them or leaving out of a baseless fear that their parents wish them dead. Fortunately squirrel folk mature quickly and have extremely fertile women (pregnancy lasts only a month or two and litters typicall consist of three to five young) otherwise it is doubtful that they would ever live to adulthood.
[edit] Religion:

In a world that seems (to them) constantly plagued with enemies and danger, religion is very important to the squirrel folk. A god is usually the only one a squirrel can trust, and knowing one has the protection and guidance of a higher power gives the closest thing they a squirrel has to a sense of security. In addition both due to their short natural lifespans and continual fear of impending assasination, squirrels put much importance on where they will be after they die.

Names:

Squirrels generally are afraid to put any trust in even their own offspring and believe that sharing a name with somebody makes you vulnerable to them. As a result each squirrel child is given only one name. Because they rarely meet with or commune with other squirrels and have so many children, many basic names are reused copiously.

That Squirrelfolk race sounds like they shouldn't even be able to survive, let alone have a civilization because civilization requires a certain amount of co-operation. That whole race suffers from paranoid schizophrenia! :smalleek:

bosssmiley
2007-06-10, 03:29 PM
So does this one (http://www.illwillpress.com/). :smallamused:

Look again at this abominable, kludgy homebrewed mess of a character race and ask yourself: WWFD? Surely you can achieve the same effect more simply and elegantly with the anthropomorphic template from (IIRC) the 3.0 "Savage Species" book or by adapting the catfolk race from "Races of the Wild"?

Kludge + character concept that will irritate the other players (the neurotic, twitchy squirrel-boy scout) = no fun, either for you, or for your group. Can you play a better mad squirrel than Foamy? If not, it might be best to try something else.

Tobrian
2007-06-10, 03:37 PM
Look again at this abominable, kludgy homebrewed mess of a character race and ask yourself: WWFD? (snip)

Kludge + character concept that will irritate the other players (the neurotic, twitchy squirrel-boy scout) = no fun, either for you, or for your group. (snip)

It could be worse. They could be having the racial flaw "Jinx". :smallbiggrin: (It's a disadvantage that appears in GURPS, kinda the opposite of "Bad Luck" because you are the only one who is not plagued by bad luck but ALL OTHERS around you suffer from it as long as you're around, and coupled with "Ridiculous Luck" advantage, a Jinx will result in a PC that the other players will kill at first sight.)

Wraithy
2007-06-10, 04:03 PM
most of my group is chaotic aligned. and although we don't EXPECT to die, but we find that unexpected death occurs regularly in d&d, so having a backup character sheet means that you don't have to sit around and do nothing but watch for the next eight hours.
i suppose that the hallucenations telling me to kill the party is going too far, so i'll cut out that bit of the character. after telling the rest of my gaming group about this character they seem as enthusiastic about it as i am, however my current character (human ninja) seems to be very good at surviving at the moment, so i don't think i will play him for a few levels if ever, plenty of time to refine his character and how he reacts to certain situations.
as for alignment... well kobolds are LE. and the fact is that he is an LN character who is paranoid. most of the time he won't even be talking, and he'll only be annoying under stress, like tourettes (god i hope i don't regret making that comparrison).
as a scout he will be stealthy and check ahead of the party regularly without suddenly shouting and giving away his position.

in the link it says: "After enough life-threatening experiences they do grow to trust that their companions do not have any immediate plans on messily killing them, although that trust can still be easily broken."

also i would like to stress that this race believes that people are out to kill them, not the other way around

PlatinumJester
2007-06-10, 04:32 PM
I look forward to using you as emergancy rations (of course if we need rations badly we will eat Dan first)

Also unexpected deaths are NOT a common accurence in our games.

Plus my character is more likely to kill you all because he believes that everybody wants to kill him (which is almost true) but has good reason to back thisup because he is an untouchable
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Untouchable

phantomhermit
2007-06-10, 04:35 PM
specifically on the art of being a gnome [apart from mental illness]- i have always played my gnomes [though few and far between] as the "curious cat" sort of character. i touch the mysterious glowing thingee. i polish the nose on an obsidian statue to check my face for pimples. i dance, i giggle, i am nutty. now onto a gnome that is a nutcase . . .

hallucinations are very hard to set into stone. some are scary, some benign. some tell you to kill people [though you dont have to], and some just say your name over and over. the schizophrenic mind is a very deep well, that can draw almost anything out as horrific. You can further complicate your character by taking hallucinagenic drugs, [i am sorry, i got excited and rushed into typing before reading your links. it is very rude and i apologize, so i dont know where the hallucinaions come from.] i dont know much about them, but any addiction ultimately ends in death of some kind [whether the mind, soul, body, etc.] i know that much. so here's the breakdown.

catatonia, paranoia, angst, unguided passion [hate, love, remorse], deep desires [also unguided, and sometimes unfounded], and other things of this nature are probably varyingly your symptoms. like penguinsushi said, dont overplay them or do them in a manner that irks the dm or the pc's, but other than that, the sky is the limit. its just a matter of how high you can convincingly make a hallucinating gnome jump. best wishes and i hope this helps.

Tobrian
2007-06-10, 04:38 PM
Unless you really determined to play an intelligent squirrel...


Surely you can achieve the same effect more simply and elegantly with the anthropomorphic template from (IIRC) the 3.0 "Savage Species" book or by adapting the catfolk race from "Races of the Wild"?

...get your hands on the d20 Fantasy supplement "Races Of Renown - Bastards & Bloodlines (A Guidebook to Half-Breeds)" from Green Ronin Publishing. It's a bit older I think, so it's probably 3.0 compatible, not 3.5, but that's easily adapted.

[While I'm not a great fan of Green Ronin stuff in general, their artwork is good and often very cool, and the other cross-breed books (i.e. 'Wrath and Rage, Guide to Orcs and Half-orcs', and 'Aasimar and Tiefling, Guide to Planetouched') have some interesting material even if much of it is redundant with things already known from the normal D&D books. Well ok I've seen much worse supplements from other gaming companies. Green Ronin is not my favority (those are Fantasy Flight Games and Kenzer Co.) but neither is it at the bottom of the list.]

Page 19-20, there's an extremely cute race, and not unbalanced or cheesy, the Blinkling, a small-sized cross-breed race of Halfling and Blink Dog. Now, before people wonder, I'm not a Furry. :smallwink: The Blinklings are still humanoids, not anthropomorphics or cheesy catgirls... on the scale of furriness they've less animal features than a satyr, and with a cloak and a hood to cover the tail and dog ears they could pass for a somewhat hairy halfling (they can grew beards). They're usually LG, but with strong CG tendencies. Favorite class is ranger.

Actually, compared to a halfling's racial traits the Blinkling even seem a bit underpowered: they only get +1 to Climb, Jump, Move Silently and Listen instead of the Halfling's +2, they have the usual Halfling attribute modifiers, but they do not get any of the Halfling's various saving throw boni, instead they get to use Blink as a Supernatural ability a few times per day as a free action. Low-light vision, and they qualify for the Bite and Scent feats (but have to buy them as character feats). And a land speed of 25 feet slightly faster than the other small races. That's it. No special skill or AC boni or saves.

Personally I'd give that race a +0 LA, considering what package of traits the gnome gets for +0 LA, but the book designers gave it a +2 LA which is rather ridiculous unless you think that being able to use Blink 1+CHA bonus times per day is hugely powerful and game-breaking.


[OT Rant: I mean DROW have +2 LA, and Duergar only have +1 LA under 3.5! For a +2 LA I can play a half-fiend or a Forgotten Realms Fey'ri! Given how useless the drow racial spell-like abilities are (Wow I can cast Dancing Lights? Kill me now!) esp since 3.5 nerfed the Darkness spell, and that drow suffer from Light Blindness flaw while Duergar and many other Underdark races only have Light Sensitivity, I firmly believe that drow LA should be lowered from +2 to +1, since WotC lowered the Duergar LA similarly between 3.0 and 3.5.

Duergar get Invisibility and Enlarge Person as spell-like abilities, +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks, and total immunity to paralysis, phantasms, and poison! Come on, that's just ridiculous. They used to have a +4 bonus to STR, and when that was cut and the CHA malus increased, their LA suddenly went down by a whole level? The only real substantial bonus the drow have working for them beyond the normal elvish modifiers to saves are their heavy attribute boni and a mediocre Spell Resistance. Sheesh. End of Rant.)



Edited to add: If a character hallucinates, it should always be the Gamemaster who controls and describes the hallucinations, not the player himself. Otherwise it kinda defeats the purpose of giving the character a mental illness because it's never ever a disadvantage for the character (since you the player would know which of the things your character experiences is real or unreal) but merely an excuse to make the character do crazy things and have a convenient excuse.

Tobrian
2007-06-10, 05:51 PM
Plus my character is more likely to kill you all because he believes that everybody wants to kill him (which is almost true) but has good reason to back thisup because he is an untouchable
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Untouchable

GAAAAAA! An even worse write-up! An excuse for a 15-year old to play a violent loner character with no social abilities at all! :smallmad: :

In older times such people usually donned the traditional uniform of all "nonconformist pretentious gothpunk loners", played Vampire* or Wraith and made some bizarre characters that no-one wanted to interact with so that they could wail, "You can't understaaaand me! My ugly outside merely reflects my tortured soul!" and try to force other player to "tolerate" their characters.

Seriously perhaps we should instate a ban that no player under 30 years is allowed to play such dysfunctional characters.

I mean, I myself tend to play oddball characters, ranging from a quirk or weird background story to characters with psychological or physical handicaps, everything from tragic loners to cheerful enthusiastic idealists, but I always try to keep them group and genre compatible. During my time as a roleplayer and gamemaster I've seen three instances of characters that were so downright unplayable and group-incompatible by their very concept that two of them disrupted the story by their presence and everyone feeling forced to play along, and the third... never actually met the other PCs even though we valiantly tried to bring him into the group, because the player in question was so enarmored with his character's hunted "lone wolf" background story that he resisted all attempts to actually take part in the game and instead played out a parallel story that the player narrated and then after two sessions he announced that it had been fun but his character was now leaving the city at first light of dawn. :smallconfused:

THese days, my opinion is: If it isn't able to survive on its own or if it is incapable of or unwilling to talk to anyone let alone adventure with others, out it goes, because it can't even function in society let alone in a scenario. And if it is bizarre for the express purpose of forcing the rest of the group to revolve around it, try to help it or just communicate with the poor thing, out it goes it's 100% likely to derail even a character-driven game. Begone!

(* Just for the record I have played and occasionally still play World of Darkness, too. I'm not hatin' on all Vampire players.)


Racial Traits

* +2 Int, +2 Wis, -4 Cha, - Untouchables are generally smart but are hated by society and are very reserved.
* Humanoid
* Medium
* Base Land Speed: 30 feet
* Darkvision 60 feet

Light Sensetivity - Untouchables are nocturnal, prefering to sleep during the day and staying awake during the night.

* +2 racial bonus on climb, search, spot, move silently, jump and hide. All of this skills are needed for when an Untouchable when he scavenges during the night.
* - 2 on diplomacy, perform and gather information.
* - 10 on disguise checks.
* Improvised Weapon Proficiency - Untouchables generally use make shift weapons and take no penalties when using an improvised weapon
* Improved Initative - Untouchables never hesitate in battle and are generally wreckless.
* Immunity to fear - most Untouchables care little whether they live or die and as such are immune to fear.
* Societies Rejects - All NPC's act unfriendly towards an Untouchable unless noted otherwise by the DM.
* Illiterate - even though most Untouchables are Intelligent, those without an Intelligence above 14 are illiterate.

Trance - Untouchables don't have to sleep but must trance for 4 hours, however they are still subject to sleep spells.

* Automatic Languages: Common Bonus Languages:Undercommon, Dwarven, Halfling and Gnome.
* Favored Class: Rogue
* Level Adjustment: None

Vital Statistics

Starting Age - 110 years Middle Age - 175 years Old - 263 years Venerable - 350 years Max Age - 2d% years Untouchables can live for as long as elves. No one knows why this but some believe that it is due to the magic that deformed them.

Does dandwiki.com have NO quality control, or can every idiot just post homebrew stuff?

So to recap what we have here is a race that makes fearless assassins with a huge bundle of rogue skill bonuses, Darkvision and disguise kit included, who get the nifty elvish bonuses of not having to sleep and only resting 4 hours, not to mention having elvish life span and attribute bonuses that work well with wizard or cleric multiclassing, but they're completely unable to function in a group of any but the most bizarre characters because they sleep during the day, suck at the most basic social skills, can't talk to NPCs and don't even want to act civily towards other PCs unless those PCs are also outcasts and just as socially dysfunctional as themselves. Gosh golly. So unless the GM plans a sewer campaign, why in hell should any group accept such a character as a PC? Why would such a character even want to take part in whatever quest the others follow?

The only thing I can say in their defense is that they don't have any hugely powerful magical abilities or immunities or whatnot. Rules-wise they're actually pretty weak stuff. But from a storytelling perspective, what am I supposed to do with a character like that?

Untouchables are rather hostile creatures who have a hatred of all due to the constant persecution towards them due to their physical appearance. Most live in the sewers in large cities forming clans. They never leave their hidey holes out of fear of being attacked. During the night they crawl out in to the city streets and rummage through the trash in search of food scraps or other useful discarded products. Sometimes an Untouchable will leave his or her sewer home in search of adventure.

Wraithy
2007-06-11, 06:56 AM
he he. platinum jester... owned

thankyou phantom hermit.

i suspected that the DM would controll my hallucinations, perfectly sensible, i'm still not sure whether to have the hallucinations as intelligent beings or the scenery shifts into talking furniture, i'll probably give a list with the gist of things on it to the DM and let him interpret it in his own way.
believe it or not i've based my squirrel's int + wis (+alignment) on my own, you wouldn't guess it right?

jester are you sure about this backup character of yours? seems abit like he'd cut himself?

PlatinumJester
2007-06-11, 08:04 AM
he he. platinum jester... owned

jester are you sure about this backup character of yours? seems abit like he'd cut himself?

Shut Up Wraithy, or I'll eat all your oats which is like murdering your children for you (don't worry he knows what I mean).

Plus I only want to play as an untouchable because it has an intelligence bonus and has immunity to fear not so I can be an emo (thought they are kinda emo I do admit). Also I am 16 not 15 (insert generic insult).

Also the whole elven life span thing is irrelevant since we have only passed 3 days in our campaign so we will probably have gone a year by the time we are level 20.

Plus my characters are generally way to chaotic to function in my group anyway since everyone there is lawful or neutral. So basically my characters are genrally hated anyway without being a reject. Frankly if any NPCs or PCs pissed me off I would probably try kill them.

But you are right they are moe suited to being Wizards/Clerics which is why I chose it not for being an emo.

CrazedGoblin
2007-06-11, 09:01 AM
Shut Up Wraithy, or I'll eat all your oats which is like murdering your children for you (don't worry he knows what I mean).

Plus I only want to play as an untouchable because it has an intelligence bonus and has immunity to fear not so I can be an emo (thought they are kinda emo I do admit). Also I am 16 not 15 (insert generic insult).

Also the whole elven life span thing is irrelevant since we have only passed 3 days in our campaign so we will probably have gone a year by the time we are level 20.

Plus my characters are generally way to chaotic to function in my group anyway since everyone there is lawful or neutral. So basically my characters are genrally hated anyway without being a reject. Frankly if any NPCs or PCs pissed me off I would probably try kill them.

But you are right they are moe suited to being Wizards/Clerics which is why I chose it not for being an emo.


calm down :smallbiggrin:

PlatinumJester
2007-06-11, 09:48 AM
No, I refuse :smallfurious: :smallfurious: :smallfurious: :smallfurious:

Tobrian
2007-06-12, 01:11 PM
Shut Up Wraithy, or I'll eat all your oats which is like murdering your children for you (don't worry he knows what I mean).

Plus I only want to play as an untouchable because it has an intelligence bonus and has immunity to fear not so I can be an emo (thought they are kinda emo I do admit). Also I am 16 not 15 (insert generic insult).
(snip)

Plus my characters are generally way to[o] chaotic to function in my group anyway since everyone there is lawful or neutral. So basically my characters are gen[e]rally hated anyway without being a reject. Frankly if any NPCs or PCs pissed me off I would probably try kill them.

But you are right they are mo[r]e suited to being Wizards/Clerics which is why I chose it not for being an emo.

Methinks you, Sir, protest too much. It's not your character who is "emo", it is you. No, let me rephrase that: You're sounding like a sociopath. If your spoiled little sense-of-entitlement self were playing in MY group, I'd kick you out faster than you could say antidisestablishmentarianism. Just a thought: Maybe your character are not "hated" for being chaotic, but because of you're annoying. Have a nice day.

PlatinumJester
2007-06-12, 04:12 PM
Never been called 'Sir' before anyway
Pschopathy is defined as

1. Superficial charm and above average intelligence.
2. Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
3. Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.
4. Unreliability.
5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.
6. Lack of remorse or shame.
7. Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.
8. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience.
9. Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.
10. General poverty in major affective reactions.
11. Specific loss of insight.
12. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.
13. Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.
14. Suicide threats rarely carried out.
15. Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.
16. Failure to follow any life plan.

Methinks you, M'am, got my personality dead on. Also you forgot to think that maybe my fellow PCs don't piss me off which is why I don't try and kill them. In fact last session I was the one who got attacked without reason. Plus I'm generally the one with the maps, miniatures and most books so don't expect me to be getting kicked out any time soon (since we have a much more annoying person in our group anyway).
Actually this argument just got even more trivial since most of us have decided to not play home brewed characters.
By the way I did have a nice day. Thanks :smallwink:

Wraithy
2007-06-12, 04:24 PM
anywho i've decided that the risks outweigh the gains as far as this squirrel is concerned. there is more effort going in to it than fun coming out, i'm going to take previous advice and homebrew a catfolk variant.

and jester, the DM hasn't banned homebrewing, he's just making us pay balanced races which make sense.
and one last thing jester, my friend, there are not enough expletives banned from the dictionary to express my feelings for you.

yours - Wraithy

PlatinumJester
2007-06-12, 04:31 PM
I love you to man.

CrazedGoblin
2007-06-12, 04:35 PM
haha this thread is so far off topic :smallbiggrin:

Wraithy
2007-06-12, 04:37 PM
I love you to man.

....................no

PlatinumJester
2007-06-12, 04:42 PM
Nah only joking I wouldn't really kill my friends (maybe NPCs) nor am I a sociopath and Tobrian you perfectly right about the race being emo.

bdh5533
2007-06-12, 04:57 PM
Do you have good comedic timing? do your jokes make others laugh?

if so, then slightly annoying characters are an awesome addition. (even kender if you are hilarious)

do you ever find yourself laughing alone in the group?

If so, then slighty annoying characters are not for you.



comedic timing in books make funny slightly annoying characters great. i.e. the tasselhoff burrfoots. but you will notice the slightly annoying characters typically have less of a direct role in the party, they are often side characters brought in when the author needs a laugh. If you try to be constantly doing annoying things.. well it won't end well.