Laughing Rat -Witch Ratfolk

[Triskavanski]

Trying to come up with a character for a game, and One idea I've had was a ratfolk witch.

The Primary Idea of the character, who will be starting off at level 3, is that the character uses hexes along with cackle.

Archetypes, I'm currently looking at the Cartomancer, or gravewalker. Preferably not ones that replace familiar if they don't provide a ranged option for touch spells.

[Geddy2112]

Prehensile hair gives you a safe ranged touch option if your familiar is not animate. Spectral hand also works to bad touch.

Gravewalker is really good-the control hex is borderline broken in an undead heavy campaign. It loses steam to an improved familiar at higher levels though.

Ratfolk are great witches overall. Might want the cauldron hex to benefit from the racial alchemy bonus. Otherwise pick your standard fortune, ward, evil eye, and other cackleable hexes.

Might want to consider a cackling hags blouse to cackle as a swift action twice a day.

[Florian]

Basic level 3 Witch problem: You'll spend two feats on Extra Hex to gain a total of: Evil Eye, Fortune, Missfortune and Cackle. At that point, your race is pretty much uninteresting, as long as it doesn't provide a bonus feat or your're an elf,

[Kurald Galain]

Basic level 3 Witch problem: You'll spend two feats on Extra Hex to gain a total of: Evil Eye, Fortune, Missfortune and Cackle. At that point, your race is pretty much uninteresting, as long as it doesn't provide a bonus feat or your're an elf,

...or not. After all, evil eye and misfortune serve the same purpose, so there's no real reason to have both on the same witch.

Slumber is always excellent, and depending on your party the healing hex may be a good choice, too. Don't forget that you can cast buff spells!

[Triskavanski]

Why is Elf the only interesting race? Ratfolk have one thing that no other race has, the ability to make those hexes increase in size quickly. Cause 30 is too small, but get to 60 and now we're talking.

I don't even understand really why you say its the basic 3rd level witch problem.

[Florian]

@Kurald Galain:

You know that slumber caps early and needs to be replaced sooner than later. Evil Eye is a good setup for everything that follows and stays relevant the whole game.
Missfortune starts as the equivalent of -4 but gains more "steam" later on, when multiple attacks are in play, as the penalty also counts on crit confirmal. So, mighty ability, something you want to cackle on.

@Triskavanski:

That is simple to explain. With the Witch class, you want all your functional Hexes as soon as possible to get the class going. There's a marked difference between playing it from the ground up and entering it at later levels, and you can see this looking for the Extra Hex feat.
As flr the Elf being op, this class has very few BFC or Summon options, but excels at Save or Suck. Big Time. The elf is good at that.

Edit: If I was to create a Witch at level 8, I'd run into the opposite problem: all good Hexes chosen, what now?

[Triskavanski]

Well there are some other feats that are pretty important too.

Accursed Hex - gives one more chance to get those 24 hour hexes in.
Spell Hex - Oh but which spell to choose?
Split Hex - Hex faster


Amplified Hex - This one doesn't seem to be all that great. Well.. Actually might be with a ley line guardian.

Seeds of Doubt - Could be useful.. Maybe. Not too much though.
Spirit talker - Maybe? Doesn't seem too useful to me.
Hex Strike - I do not see this one useful at all.


There is also the possibility of increasing my familiar somehow.

[Harmelyo]

Spirit talker can be really nice actually... It lets you snatch some other spells from the wizard list with arcane enlightment.

[squiggit]

You know that slumber caps early and needs to be replaced sooner than later.

What cap?


10char

[Kurald Galain]

You know that slumber caps early and needs to be replaced sooner than later.
It doesn't, actually.



Evil Eye is a good setup for everything that follows and stays relevant the whole game.
Missfortune starts as the equivalent of -4 but gains more "steam" later on, when multiple attacks are in play, as the penalty also counts on crit confirmal.
Precisely. So they serve the same purpose, and there's no need to have both.

[Florian]

@Slumber:
My bad here. Had something in my mind that proved to be wrong, forget my comment about it. Had to do with the sheer number of creature types that are immune to it and how those crop up in later levels.

@Evil Eye:
The thing with Evil Eye is, it stacks with itself. You can repeat debuffing a target with it, targeting something else with each use. So first use of it should always be lowering saves, then lowering AC, then lowering attack, and so on. Unlike the other Hexes, it clings and doesn't need Cackle to stay on the target.

[Kurald Galain]

The thing with Evil Eye is, it stacks with itself. You can repeat debuffing a target with it, targeting something else with each use. So first use of it should always be lowering saves, then lowering AC, then lowering attack, and so on. Unlike the other Hexes, it clings and doesn't need Cackle to stay on the target.

That's nice in theory.

In practice, combat doesn't lasts long enough to stick three or more rounds of debuffs on a single target. So a better strategy is to spend one round using either Misfortune or Evil Eye, and the second round to land a save-or-lose spell.

[Harmelyo]

Around level 9, you should try to get quicken metamagic either on a rod or the feat and combine it with Ill Omen (spell) This is pretty much a misfortune in a can and it lets you throw a SoD right out of the bat. I have use this small combo so often than the DM at my table has been starting to distribute ring of counterspell loaded with Ill Omen to his intelligent monsters.

I have found Evil Eye to be of better use than missfortune for one simple reason:
- Even if saved, Evil Eye deliver its effect just for a round which does not prevent you from using cackle to extend he duration
Misfortune got only one advantage over EE and IllOmen. It is not a mind affecting effect as such it can target things that you could not with Evil Eye.

[Triskavanski]

What happens though if I use fortune on an ally and spend the next few minutes laughing my ass off?

Would you let someone sit there and keep laughing constantly?

The second thing.. What If I went Lay Line Warden becoming a Psionic Witch. Could I pick up Mud Witch and be able to cast spells?

Actually that last one doesn't work. Like the Ability itself doesn't work at all. Since its a SU and it makes the withc lose all SU.

[Florian]

Then you extend Fortune as long as you keep on cackling.
There is no limit on how long someone will keep on cackling, so why impose one?

[Triskavanski]

Mostly I just want to hear what others think along with it is all. Cause I know some GMs who might complain its too powerful or something else annoying.

[Kurald Galain]

Mostly I just want to hear what others think along with it is all. Cause I know some GMs who might complain its too powerful or something else annoying.

The GM is well within his rights to have you make concentration checks or fortitude saves to keep this up for an extended time.

Also, your party members may be bothered by the fact that your character's speed is now halved and he constantly makes noise.

[Florian]

Mostly I just want to hear what others think along with it is all. Cause I know some GMs who might complain its too powerful or something else annoying.

Buy a Horse or something, takes care of the movement.
I don't think it is too powerful, but it is one of those cases where an totally legit mechanic simply becomes absurd in-game, out of combat.