Multiclassing: Once a class skill, always a class skill

[Eladrinblade]

How many of you were aware that if a skill is ever a class skill, it always is and has max ranks equal to CL+3?

This means a rogue 1/fighter 19 can have 23 ranks in search, disable device, open lock, and UMD.

I've been playing since 2001 and I just learned this. It blew my mind. Class roles just got blown wide open for me.

[Amphetryon]

How many of you were aware that if a skill is ever a class skill, it always is and has max ranks equal to CL+3?

This means a rogue 1/fighter 19 can have 23 ranks in search, disable device, open lock, and UMD.

I've been playing since 2001 and I just learned this. It blew my mind. Class roles just got blown wide open for me.

Of course, it would cost 8 Skill points for the Character in question to pay for those Skills at every level except 1st, assuming this is listed in order. As the Fighter chassis comes with only 2 + INT in 3.5, that's rather prohibitively expensive.

[OldTrees1]

How many of you were aware that if a skill is ever a class skill, it always is and has max ranks equal to CL+3?

This means a rogue 1/fighter 19 can have 23 ranks in search, disable device, open lock, and UMD.

I've been playing since 2001 and I just learned this. It blew my mind. Class roles just got blown wide open for me.

IIRC only the class skill rank cap is kept. Fighter still has to pay the cross class skill point:rank cost. Hence jumping (buying multiple ranks in each Rogue class skill each time you dip back into Rogue) is often more efficient.

Example of jumping with cross class rank buying:
Fighter: 2+Int(say 14) is 4 skill points -> 2 ranks per level
Rogue: 8+Int(still 14) is 10 skill points -> 10 ranks per level
For 4 skills, ever level of Fighter is under by 2 and every level of Rogue is over by 6. Thus adding levels in increments of Fighter 3 / Rogue 1 will keep those 4 skills at maximum ranks.

[Âmesang]

The Player's Handbook II has an option for retraining an aspect of your character at each level, including skills: effectively, before doing anything else involved with "leveling up," you transfer up to four ranks from one skill into another — the only caveat being that the ranks must go into a class skill, either for a previous class or for the class you're about to take (assuming multi/prestige classing).

That might be a way to keep rogue-only skills maxed while focusing on the rogue/fighter shared skills (or as a lesser variation, it's what's keeping my sorceress/archmage's Bluff maxed out without having to boost her Intelligence or pick up Open Minded.

EDIT: That reminds me, though, that after playing 3rd Edition for the last decade I've only learned recently that Perform is an untrained skill. :smalltongue: It says as much in the Player's Handbook, but not on the character sheet (no little black box). At least, I assume "text-trumps-sheet?"

[nedz]

This does catch many new players out.

I'm surprised you haven't noticed people talking about the Able Learner or Educated feats which help here ?

PF also changed the skill rules so that CC skills are always 1 point — which is a rule I back ported into 3.5.

[Uncle Pine]

This does catch many new players out.
I feel this might be because many DMs don't mention things like that when new players join a table and since the first character only has a single class most of the time, the issue is never brought up. It's the kind of rule you may notice if you read the book front to back but not if the system has simply been explained to you.

For me, since the chances of a newcomer to play a multiclass character are really high, it's one of the first things I point out. Especially if the player will eventually take a PrC.

[Chronos]

I knew it, but I specialize in skill-heavy characters.

[nedz]

I feel this might be because many DMs don't mention things like that when new players join a table and since the first character only has a single class most of the time, the issue is never brought up. It's the kind of rule you may notice if you read the book front to back but not if the system has simply been explained to you.

For me, since the chances of a newcomer to play a multiclass character are really high, it's one of the first things I point out. Especially if the player will eventually take a PrC.

Oh I've seen it many times in real games. It caught me out too for quite a while.

[AvatarVecna]

How many of you were aware that if a skill is ever a class skill, it always is and has max ranks equal to CL+3?

This means a rogue 1/fighter 19 can have 23 ranks in search, disable device, open lock, and UMD.

I've been playing since 2001 and I just learned this. It blew my mind. Class roles just got blown wide open for me.

I've known for awhile, although it was well into my 3.5 career that I learned it. It saved me a lot of trouble making skillmonkeys, as I didn't need to worry about how many cross-class levels I had when calculating skill maximums.

This, among other things, is what makes Exemplar so great.

[Psyren]

As others have mentioned, the problem isn't that the cap isn't higher, but that on levels where you're not taking that class (and unless you have Able Learner) you have to spend the cross-class rate, which many classes can't afford. (Though in PF, this issue was removed.)

[martixy]

I didn't even know this needed figuring out - it's kind of obvious from the start - it is illogical for the opposite to be true.

If that were not the case problems arise when you think about it - consider for example a bard with maxed perform multiclassing to a fighter - if his skill caps suddenly changed, you have have an illegal character - a character outside of the rules.
From a game design standpoint, you have NO CHOICE, but to have the system work the way it does now.

Most of us however are way beyond that however - because of the above, a "class skill" is effectively defined by the amount of skill points used to purchase a rank in it. So your thread title is at least half-wrong.

But many of us also play the title straight - either that or using the Pathfinder skill system.