Building from a black box

[Zakerst]

Ok so from a rather odd char creation method my new DM is trying out I'm at a bit of a loss of where to go with my char.

Here's the setting I'm working with: "about WWII, but with more of a mix of Hellboy/Wolfenstine/Hydra, you'll be part of an allied spec ops thing, kinda like Hellboy."

Sources available: the MSRD, for things tech level appropriate: i.e. non-magical items, mutations, not classes. the DC -> gp formula we're working with is: 1.9963*e^(0.2757(x)) where x is the DC.

Cityscape
PHB
PHBII
DMG
MMI-V
Completes
Defenders of the Faith
Heros of battle
Heros of horror
MoI
UA
ToB
ToM
Sandstorm
Stormwrack
Frostburn
Minis Handbook
AEG
BoED
BoVD
Deities And Demigods
Drac
Dragon Compendium I
Dragon Magic
Elder Evils
Epic Level Handbook
Exemplars of Evil
Fiend Folio
Fiendish Codex I-II
Libris Mortis
LoM
MIC
Manual of the Planes
Planar Handbook
Spell compendium
Weapons of Legacy
Drow of the Underdark
Races of Destiny
Races of eberron
Races of Stone
Races of the Dragon
Races of the Wild
SS
Dragonmarked
Dragons of Eberron
Eberron Campaign setting
Explorers handbook
faiths of eberron
Five Nations
Forge of War
Magic of Eberron
Players guide Eberron
Secrets of Xendrik
Sharn city of towers
Champions of Ruin
Champions of Valor
Waterdeep
City of the spider queen
Faiths and Pantheons
Fergotten realms setting
Lords of Darkness
Lost Empires
Magic of Faerun
Monsters of Faerun
Mysteries of the Moonsea
players guide to Faerun
Powers of Faerun
Races of Raerun
Serpent Kindoms
Shining South
Silver Marches
Unapproachable East
Underdark
OA
Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Dungonscape

TL;DR most books but nothing from the web or dragon mag

My stats are: Str 18 Dex 20 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 6 Cha 30
As for my class here's where the black boxing comes into play I know its a combination of classes I've expressed interest in, in the past, but I can't be sure which ones.

The results that I know so far is I have Outsider HD and all the goodies that comes with it, 3 NA, poision Immunity, Resistance acid cold electricity and fire 5, Darkvision 60ft, land speed of 40 ft, flight 50 ft average.

I've got 4 primary claw attacks 2 at 1d3 and 2 at 1d4 and a secondary bite at 1d6
My "class" skills are:bluff
concentration
craft
disguise
escape artist
hide
knowledge (any one)
listen +8 [racial]
move silently
preform
profession
sense motive
ride
search
spot +8 [racial]

I've got a bit of a grab bag of spell likes and Su abilities:
Detect thoughts 1/day (Sp) caster level =HD+4 DC=12+cha
Alternate form (Su): as alter self by 18th lvl sorcerer 3/day 2 Hrs Ea
Spell immunity (1st)
Alternate form (Su): pick 3 humanoids from small to large and I can assume those appearances (no apparent duration)
(Sp) 3/day each : clairaudience/clairvoyance, darkness, desecrate, detect good, detect thoughts, doom, and suggestion. Caster level = HD Dcs cha based suggestion. Caster level = HD Dcs cha based
telepathy 100 ft, and tongues.


I'm ECL 4 i.e I've got 4 HD and I get sorcerer casting and can take up to two flaws for more feats and I'm locked into this "class" until level 13 where I get to getstalt another onto it and at 15 I replace it with another class. (I doubt the game will go past 10 so probably not really important to consider.)

Finally what I need help with really is spell and feat selection, though skill advice might help too, considering what comes below item help would be nice, but I can usually muddle my way through that, though this could be a fun challenge.

And I've just been told magic items will be at double cost and mundane items (somewhat vague on what all that strictly includes...) will be at a 90% discount however are not available for resale just refund, e.g. no buying a bunch of trade goods or gold and resaleing them for 50% value.

[Jack_Simth]

You mentioned Sorcerer casting - is that essentially full sorcerer casting? If so, you basically just need to look up any of the standard Sorcerer guides. Magic Items costing double really isn't a problem, seeing as how you've got some nice stat boosts from the semi-free racial stuff. You'll want to boost Con for HP, Charisma for spells, and pick up some Resistace items (or just learn Greater / Superior Resistance) for that low Wis, but generic Sorcerer advice is fine for you, really.

[Zakerst]

yeah it looks like I get Sorcerer casting every level

I've read Solo's guide on them, but I've having trouble finalizing my spell choices


0s 6/day: Prestidigitation, Ghost Sound, Detect Magic, Dancing Lights, Read Magic, Sonic Snap

1st 6+3/day: pick 3 {Nerveskitter, Fist of Stone?, Silent Image,
Alibi, Magic Missile, Orb of Acid, Lesser, Mage Armor, Grease (in wand), CREATE TRAP, lesser vigor, bloodwind, Burning Hands, Color
Spray}

2nd 3+3/day: pick 1 {whirling blade, rope trick, Wither Limb, Kelgore’s Grave Mist, Mirror Image, Shatter, Seeking Ray/Scorching Ray, Ray of Stupidity, Entice Gift, Locate Object (prolly noy for this level), Protection from Arrows?}



also I'm not really used to being able to have up to 4 feats so I'm considering fell drain and mother cycst as starters and maybe sculpt spell.

[Jack_Simth]

A thing on Sorcerer spell selection:
You want: A Will save or Lose, a Reflex save or Lose, and a Fort save or Lose. Also a decent no-save spell, and a decent no-SR spell. Add Heighten spell, and you've got a decent spell selection.

At 4th, that's might be something like:
Will: Color Spray
Reflex: Web
Fort: Reduce Person
No-save: Magic Missile
No-SR: Web

Or:
Will: Glitterdust
Reflex: Grease
Fort: Reduce Person
No-save: Magic Missile
No-SR: Glitterdust

Or:
Will: Color Spray
Reflex: Grease
Fort: Cloud of Bewilderment (Spell Compendium)
No-save: Magic Missile
No-SR: Cloud of Bewilderment (Spell Compendium)

Note that until you can Extend it (6th) or you have enough caster level that it'll last over 8 hours (9th), Rope Trick is far too situational to take as a Sorcerer spell known - you're going to occasionally use it to prepare an ambush, or to spy on an event that you know is coming... but in general, you'll make little, if any, use of it until then.

[Zakerst]

I have some more info, it sounds like one of our players will likely be some kind of large beat stick maybe going pounce barb or ranger, another is considering either playing a bowser inspired char or one modeled after Judge Dread. As for the other player I can't be sure but it sounds like maybe crusader. Also I have access to first level cleric spells. With this in mind does it really change any of the advice or should I just keep plugging along as is with my spell choices.

[Jack_Simth]

I have some more info, it sounds like one of our players will likely be some kind of large beat stick maybe going pounce barb or ranger, another is considering either playing a bowser inspired char or one modeled after Judge Dread. As for the other player I can't be sure but it sounds like maybe crusader. Also I have access to first level cleric spells. With this in mind does it really change any of the advice or should I just keep plugging along as is with my spell choices.

For the most part, the Sor/Wiz list is superior to the Cleric list. Now, the Cleric can do a number of things the Sorcerer can't do natively - healing, many of the day after spells - but unless you don't have anyone in the party who can heal, it's not worth burning spells known on the cure line or anything. Wands are a good idea (they're on your list, so you can use them without a roll), and as you're Charisma-based, UMD (even cross-class) is liable to let you use basic Divine scrolls of the standard fix-it spells without much hassle.

That said... having Suggestion as a 3/day fills the Will save-or-lose slot well (especially as you have Tongues to bypass language issues), and 3/day Darkness isn't the worst no-save effect to have at 4th. That frees up a spell known or two, so if there isn't a dedicated healer in the party, picking up Cure Light may not be a bad idea.

Alternate Form A (Alter Self as an 18th level caster, 2 hours/use, 3/day) gives you a lot of defensive and mobility options as an Outsider.

Alternate Form B... less useful, but still useful. It's probably a good idea to pick a social form for one of these.

[Zakerst]

I was considering a human male and female for two of the forms (to blend in) but I'm kinda at a loss for the third form as my natural form makes for a pretty good combat form not to mention the other outsider choices)

I was considering lesser vigor for my healing spell choice as I don't think the rest of the group will bother with picking up healing belts, and the double cost on wands kinda hurts at level 4 but likely work-around-able. If I could get cha to cure spells that would cure light a lot more attractive, I thought there was feat for that but I'm away from books at the moment.

[Jack_Simth]

I was considering a human male and female for two of the forms (to blend in) but I'm kinda at a loss for the third form as my natural form makes for a pretty good combat form not to mention the other outsider choices)Then what you want is a stealth form. Whisper Gnome, from Races of Stone.


I was considering lesser vigor for my healing spell choice as I don't think the rest of the group will bother with picking up healing belts, and the double cost on wands kinda hurts at level 4 but likely work-around-able. If I could get cha to cure spells that would cure light a lot more attractive, I thought there was feat for that but I'm away from books at the moment.
I'm not familiar with it.

[Quertus]

Also I have access to first level cleric spells. With this in mind does it really change any of the advice or should I just keep plugging along as is with my spell choices.

Lesser vigor, resurgence, and wield skill are all good choices.

[Zakerst]

The "feat" I was thinking of is actually the healer's ex ability healing hands so no wonder you hadn't heard of it lol.

Wieldskill is not straight off the cleric list so is a no go, as for resurgence I'm not sure how many continuing effects with saves the pseudonazis will be useing at level 4 so I'm not so sure about it but a great idea for a wand if I can swing it, the double cost is a bit of a problem.

I also have the option of switching out my knowledge class skill for the demolitions skill from the msrd any thoughts on this option or should I just ignore it as a trap?

[Rebel7284]

I am a huge fan of Blockade (CS i think.)

As a first level SWIFT action battlefield control OR utility it remains good into pretty high levels.

You should probably pick up Wings of Cover as your second second level spell at level 5. It's a pretty ridiculous "no button."

[Zakerst]

Yeah I was gonna grab the wings as soon as I reasonably could, and for swift summon building block, I can see where it can be useful at times I'm just a bit tight on first level feats I could add it to the list to be considered but it doesn't really help cut the list down to three to do so lol. I'm also a little worried about how much use I'll get out of it assuming the normal foes are going to be people with pretty decent ranged weapons though using it for cover might be good though.