Going back to School?

[Rockphed]

So, after a few years out of college, I find that I am not getting to do the things I wanted to do when I graduated. Therefore, like so many people before me, I am trying to go back to school. Specifically, graduate school. The big problem is that I haven't yet been accepted for graduate study anywhere I want to go. I haven't even finished applying. Since the playground is an assemblage of relatively intelligent people, combined with people who like to read the sound of their own voice, I figure you have some idea what to do in this situation.

The problem is that I can't seem to write a statement of intent. Essentially it is supposed to be a "you should take me as a master's/PHD candidate because", but I can't seem to make it gel. Part of the problem is that between my job, my queen, and the barbarian-in-training (who is almost the barbarian-in-training-pants), I have been writing in 15 or 20 minute bursts for the last 2 months. So I have a mass of things I have written and I have lost sight of what I wanted to say.:smallsigh:

Does anybody know how important a statement of intent is? If I write a so-so statement but have stellar test scores and good letters of recommendation (which I want to write outlines for the recommenders, but that is tomorrows problem) will I be considered? Am I overthinking this? I feel like having this much trouble writing a 2000 word essay about myself should not be this hard.:smallfurious:

Help?

[Ifni]

What's your field, and what country are you in? My sense is that in my field (physics) and in the US, a statement of intent matters considerably less than (a) your publication record, if any, (b) letters of recommendation, and (c) undergraduate grades in classes pertinent to your grad-school field. It might or might not be more important than (d) GRE scores. This will differ from country to country, and probably from field to field - in Australia PhDs are only three years long, so you're expected to have a coherent research project when you apply, but in the US they'll let you into grad school with a fairly vague idea of what you want to do, under the assumption you'll figure it out as you go.

From a ten-year distance, iirc my statement of intent was basically "I wanna do high-energy theoretical physics because I'm good at math and getting to apply math to figure out the universe sounds like the COOLEST THING EVER" :smallwink: And that worked out fine. (I had one published paper and another two in prep, a letter-of-recommendation from a professor in the US despite being an Australian student, and excellent undergrad grades in all my math/physics classes - I think these were all more important.)

[Red Fel]

As a staunch advocate of education, I'll take a crack at it.


So, after a few years out of college, I find that I am not getting to do the things I wanted to do when I graduated. Therefore, like so many people before me, I am trying to go back to school. Specifically, graduate school. The big problem is that I haven't yet been accepted for graduate study anywhere I want to go. I haven't even finished applying. Since the playground is an assemblage of relatively intelligent people, combined with people who like to read the sound of their own voice, I figure you have some idea what to do in this situation.

The problem is that I can't seem to write a statement of intent. Essentially it is supposed to be a "you should take me as a master's/PHD candidate because", but I can't seem to make it gel. Part of the problem is that between my job, my queen, and the barbarian-in-training (who is almost the barbarian-in-training-pants), I have been writing in 15 or 20 minute bursts for the last 2 months. So I have a mass of things I have written and I have lost sight of what I wanted to say.:smallsigh:

Does anybody know how important a statement of intent is? If I write a so-so statement but have stellar test scores and good letters of recommendation (which I want to write outlines for the recommenders, but that is tomorrows problem) will I be considered? Am I overthinking this? I feel like having this much trouble writing a 2000 word essay about myself should not be this hard.:smallfurious:

Help?

First question: Why do you want to go to graduate school? Because as much as I support furthering your professional opportunities through education, I cannot emphasize this enough: Do not go to graduate school unless you are reasonably confident that it advances a specific career goal.

I don't know where you are in the world, or what the standards are there, but I do know one thing is constant across national borders - the time value of money. If you could be working now, and instead you go to school, get your degree, and then come back to do more or less the same thing, whether or not you've gotten yourself into debt, you've put off your income for several years. So before you decide to pause life and go to school, decide if school is something that you really want to do to advance a specific career goal.

Personal anecdote: My sister went to graduate school. Twice. Once, she got a degree that she enjoyed. It was not a practical one. She proceeded to work for several years in a job that gave her some pleasure, but a lot of heartburn. Then, she got a degree that was hard but practical. She turned around and got a great-paying job where she was treated like an adult, and wondered, "Why did I waste that time earlier?" Myself, I actually took off after university and worked. It wasn't a well-paying job, but it allowed me the time to step back and figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And I did, and applied to a graduate program, and now I have a stable job, am investing in a pension, and recently purchased my first home.

Not everyone needs that graduate degree. I know people who have been happy, successful, or both, without it. You have to figure out whether you're going to graduate school because the idea of going to work makes you anxious, or because you need it to advance a specific goal. So, yeah. It's a big decision, and you need to think through your reasons for attending as much as you need to think through the program itself.

Now, onto your next question, the statement of intent. The statement of intent is important. Here's why. I've had friends who worked in graduate admissions, and they've told me about the process on their end. As a general rule, You are one of hundreds of pieces of paper. You're not a person, you're a list of statistics, a piece of paper with a checklist attached. That's why it's so important to be able to stand out. And I don't mean using a goofy font on your resume. I mean having items in your cover letter, statement of intent, and so forth, that humanize you. Details that make you immediately relatable to someone reviewing admissions. That way, they will feel personally invested in your application, and when they bring your application to the committee (because these things are usually reviewed by multiple people around a table), they can hold out your application and say, "I like this one."

When I applied for graduate programs, I included a carefully detailed and personalized letter. One of the things that I did was look at the school's mission statement, and find the key phrases they used, which I wove into my letter. That may seem a bit cheap, but that's actually something they look for. Schools like to pretend that they're not receiving mass applications, and showing them that Yes, I read your website, I know what's important to you, and it's important to me too is a great way to show that you are a serious candidate.

Scores, grades, and rankings are important, certainly. A truly poor academic record can't generally be saved by an amazing letter. But most programs receive a lot of highly qualified applicants. Your letter is what tells the review committee that you're more than just another qualified-but-faceless applicant. You're a person, you're serious about the program, and you deserve to be there.

[Rockphed]

First question: Why do you want to go to graduate school? Because as much as I support furthering your professional opportunities through education, I cannot emphasize this enough: Do not go to graduate school unless you are reasonably confident that it advances a specific career goal.

I don't know where you are in the world, or what the standards are there, but I do know one thing is constant across national borders - the time value of money. If you could be working now, and instead you go to school, get your degree, and then come back to do more or less the same thing, whether or not you've gotten yourself into debt, you've put off your income for several years. So before you decide to pause life and go to school, decide if school is something that you really want to do to advance a specific career goal.

To be honest, I'm not sure that graduate school will advance my career. All I know is that when I look for jobs, the jobs I am qualified for (and seem to be fairly good at since my boss keeps giving me more responsibility) are not the job I want to work in for the next 30 to 40 years. I am currently working as a controls engineer, which basically means I program assembly lines. The hours are long; travel is frequent; having a family is very hard. The jobs I want, where I can be reasonably assured of a 40 - 50 hour week without weekends, all seem to require a masters or PhD in engineering. Also, aside from the 8 programming classes I took to get my degree, I don't feel like I am using any of the stuff I learned in college.

As such, I want to go specialize. Right out of college I worked the kind of job I want. I felt like I was unprepared for it because I had not specialized enough in school. I felt like my coworkers did not respect me. I didn't feel like I was contributing. Most of my coworkers had Masters Degrees or PhDs. On one occasion, they pretty much ignored my suggestions, and I felt like I was too ignorant to demand they listen. It was not a good environment. After I left there, I took a job that was completely different because I was afraid that I just wasn't good enough. I think I want a graduate degree so that I can point to my diploma and say, about at least one subject, that my opinion is incontrovertible. Well, at least until science marches on.


Personal anecdote: My sister went to graduate school. Twice. Once, she got a degree that she enjoyed. It was not a practical one. She proceeded to work for several years in a job that gave her some pleasure, but a lot of heartburn. Then, she got a degree that was hard but practical. She turned around and got a great-paying job where she was treated like an adult, and wondered, "Why did I waste that time earlier?" Myself, I actually took off after university and worked. It wasn't a well-paying job, but it allowed me the time to step back and figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And I did, and applied to a graduate program, and now I have a stable job, am investing in a pension, and recently purchased my first home.

Not everyone needs that graduate degree. I know people who have been happy, successful, or both, without it. You have to figure out whether you're going to graduate school because the idea of going to work makes you anxious, or because you need it to advance a specific goal. So, yeah. It's a big decision, and you need to think through your reasons for attending as much as you need to think through the program itself.

As a similar anectdote, both my sisters have post-baccalaureate degrees. One has a masters in public policy. The other has 2 law degrees. Both currently work in clothing stores, though one of them is also a full-time mom. My brother has a BA in history and almost got an MA in same. He is now almost done with an associate degree as a pre-school teacher, which he has said is more useful than his previous 2 degrees combined. It might have been one single class in his associate program that he said was more useful than the other 2 combined.

As I said, I have been working at a job I am fairly good at. Financially it is very rewarding. I have a 401K that is getting contributions (though I think it shrank over the last quarter, GRRRR!). I could buy a home, which in the current market might actually save me money.


Now, onto your next question, the statement of intent. The statement of intent is important. Here's why. I've had friends who worked in graduate admissions, and they've told me about the process on their end. As a general rule, You are one of hundreds of pieces of paper. You're not a person, you're a list of statistics, a piece of paper with a checklist attached. That's why it's so important to be able to stand out. And I don't mean using a goofy font on your resume. I mean having items in your cover letter, statement of intent, and so forth, that humanize you. Details that make you immediately relatable to someone reviewing admissions. That way, they will feel personally invested in your application, and when they bring your application to the committee (because these things are usually reviewed by multiple people around a table), they can hold out your application and say, "I like this one."

When I applied for graduate programs, I included a carefully detailed and personalized letter. One of the things that I did was look at the school's mission statement, and find the key phrases they used, which I wove into my letter. That may seem a bit cheap, but that's actually something they look for. Schools like to pretend that they're not receiving mass applications, and showing them that Yes, I read your website, I know what's important to you, and it's important to me too is a great way to show that you are a serious candidate.

Scores, grades, and rankings are important, certainly. A truly poor academic record can't generally be saved by an amazing letter. But most programs receive a lot of highly qualified applicants. Your letter is what tells the review committee that you're more than just another qualified-but-faceless applicant. You're a person, you're serious about the program, and you deserve to be there.

I cannot decide if I should be calmed or stressed out by your description of what a good letter of intent does. On the one hand, I do like talking about myself. On the other, talking about myself so that other people will care is not something I excel at. I suppose I should go get back to pounding out a statement.

[Madcrafter]

2k words seems rather long for a statement of intent, I would think of it more like a cover letter for a job. Don't want to bore the readers, keep it concise and to the point, provided you don't have instructions to the contrary.

If it helps, I'll go ahead and share the general outline of my own letter of intent, which helped get me into an engineering graduate program just this year.
To whom it may concern,

Paragraph 1: I am writing to express interest in program at university etc.etc. My goal in pursuing a master's degree is X.

Paragraph 2: Reasons for pursuing masters degree, giving overview of undergraduate degree and my specializations. My reason was because I though my undergrad a little to broad going into a complex area, but you might want to talk about your desire to change the specialization of your work here.

P. 3: Why I am choosing to do a professional masters degree instead of the more traditional research based one, with reference to my work experience (and interaction with the grad students there). My conclusion is that it will better help my career. You won't need this paragraph if you're going for a research based degree though.

P. 4: What I hope to do after/with my masters. Here you can talk about the jobs you are looking to get and how the degree will help you get there. Doesn't have to be long.

P. 5: Why I want to come to university X. Customize to whatever school you apply to with your reasons to go there. Be genuine.

P. 6: Overview of my confidence in my ability to succeed in the program. You can pull examples of hard work here (eg. used to working long hours on the job), as well as any personal experience you have with graduate school students or work, if any.

P. 7: Short conclusion. I believe I'm an excellent fit... confidant I will succeed with my abilities/experience... Look forward to studying there, thanks for considering me.

Sincerely, XOverall, it was just shy of 700 words. Basically the ideas you want to get across are why you want to do it, what you hope to do with it, why you want to go to that particular school, and to show that you think you will do well. You can reorder however it makes sense, mine naturally segued in that order.

But yeah, writing these things is hard. Best of luck.

[Dire Moose]

Not sure how much I can really contribute, but I thought I should mention here that I could use a lot of the same advice. To really pursue a career in paleontology, especially for research positions which I'd most want, I need a masters degree in a related field (most likely geology), and eventually a PhD in paleontology.

Still need to take another stab at the GRE and still need to get my GPA higher (it's around a 2.972 now, which is below minimum and nowhere near competitive). So I'd also appreciate any advice you could give.

[Chen]

To be honest, I'm not sure that graduate school will advance my career. All I know is that when I look for jobs, the jobs I am qualified for (and seem to be fairly good at since my boss keeps giving me more responsibility) are not the job I want to work in for the next 30 to 40 years. I am currently working as a controls engineer, which basically means I program assembly lines. The hours are long; travel is frequent; having a family is very hard. The jobs I want, where I can be reasonably assured of a 40 - 50 hour week without weekends, all seem to require a masters or PhD in engineering. Also, aside from the 8 programming classes I took to get my degree, I don't feel like I am using any of the stuff I learned in college.

As such, I want to go specialize. Right out of college I worked the kind of job I want. I felt like I was unprepared for it because I had not specialized enough in school. I felt like my coworkers did not respect me. I didn't feel like I was contributing. Most of my coworkers had Masters Degrees or PhDs. On one occasion, they pretty much ignored my suggestions, and I felt like I was too ignorant to demand they listen. It was not a good environment. After I left there, I took a job that was completely different because I was afraid that I just wasn't good enough. I think I want a graduate degree so that I can point to my diploma and say, about at least one subject, that my opinion is incontrovertible. Well, at least until science marches on.

Let me be honest here. This is a terrible reason to go get a graduate degree. Engineering is one of those things that seems like the WORST place to "need" a higher degree. Work experience is what counts FAR FAR more than anything else. I have a Master's degree in Engineering. I would likely be in the exact same position I am now, except with an extra two years of work experience if I hadn't gotten that degree. My pay probably would have been roughly the same (my company takes Master's degrees into account for that kind of thing), but I would have had more experience in the company and probably would have been able to move up in the company faster. I don't think I've ever seen someone point to their degree as justification for their opinions. Frankly I'd dismiss that type of argument out of hand immediately. Back your opinion with factual justification, not an appeal to authority.

An engineering degree lets you learn how to think analytically. Sure you'll need some of the stuff you learned in university, but a lot of the stuff will never be used again. Analytical solving of partial differential equations? I have Matlab for that. Manual finite element analysis? Nope tons of FEM software to do that kind of thing. The high level math you'll do in your Master's or PHD will be even more useless in everyday engineering work. If you want to go work in a research lab somewhere or do theoretical math and publish academic papers, then yes pursue graduate education. If you want to work on practical things in the real world, the extra degree is going to do FAR less for you than on the job training would.

When looking at job postings, the requirements they mention are VERY rarely hard requirements. It says it requires a Master's degree but you have 5 years on the job experience instead? Apply for it anyways. Says it needs 10 years experience but you only have 7? Apply anyways. Companies very rarely get exactly what they ask for, and you're doing yourself a huge disservice not applying for things you feel unqualified for.

[Red Fel]

To be honest, I'm not sure that graduate school will advance my career. All I know is that when I look for jobs, the jobs I am qualified for (and seem to be fairly good at since my boss keeps giving me more responsibility) are not the job I want to work in for the next 30 to 40 years. I am currently working as a controls engineer, which basically means I program assembly lines. The hours are long; travel is frequent; having a family is very hard. The jobs I want, where I can be reasonably assured of a 40 - 50 hour week without weekends, all seem to require a masters or PhD in engineering. Also, aside from the 8 programming classes I took to get my degree, I don't feel like I am using any of the stuff I learned in college.

As such, I want to go specialize. Right out of college I worked the kind of job I want. I felt like I was unprepared for it because I had not specialized enough in school. I felt like my coworkers did not respect me. I didn't feel like I was contributing. Most of my coworkers had Masters Degrees or PhDs. On one occasion, they pretty much ignored my suggestions, and I felt like I was too ignorant to demand they listen. It was not a good environment. After I left there, I took a job that was completely different because I was afraid that I just wasn't good enough. I think I want a graduate degree so that I can point to my diploma and say, about at least one subject, that my opinion is incontrovertible. Well, at least until science marches on.

Wanting to specialize is good. Specialists can often make more in a given field, and are in higher demand. If they're specializing in a field they actually want.

It sounds like the job you got right out of college was a good one, but the people were difficult. If it was a job that you felt you could handle, and you enjoyed (again, but for the people), I'd suggest simply trying to stay in the field. Practical experience and knowledge is valuable, and in a few years you could be doing just as well as, or better than, the ones who do the same thing with fancy degrees. If you were able to do it fresh out of college, it doesn't sound like a degree is mandatory.

An anecdote about specialization: In the US academic system, the legal degree is the J.D. There is a post-J.D. masters called the LL.M., and an advanced "doctorate of a doctorate" called the S.J.D. An LL.M. is generally a specialist degree; people get an LL.M. in a particular area of law, such as environmental law, immigration law, antitrust law, or tax law. You would think, then, that if you planned to specialize in an area of law, you would get your J.D., and follow it with an LL.M. in the relevant specialization.

Nine times out of ten, you would be dead wrong. As a rule, most areas of law can be practiced, even specialist areas, with the knowledge from law school and a few years of experience. There are very few areas where an LL.M. is considered a valuable use of time and money. Tax law is one of those few areas, being a subject matter so obscure and arcane that only a focused course of study can prepare you to practice in that area.

So, don't assume that specialization is mandatory unless it is actually mandatory, is my point.


As a similar anectdote, both my sisters have post-baccalaureate degrees. One has a masters in public policy. The other has 2 law degrees. Both currently work in clothing stores, though one of them is also a full-time mom. My brother has a BA in history and almost got an MA in same. He is now almost done with an associate degree as a pre-school teacher, which he has said is more useful than his previous 2 degrees combined. It might have been one single class in his associate program that he said was more useful than the other 2 combined.

I think you're seeing it, then. Follow your passion. If a degree is required, then pursuing one is a good idea. If it's not, it's not only a waste of time and money, it's a pursuit that could make you feel trapped in a joyless work environment. Many people end up burning out because they get a graduate degree, go into the field for which it prepares them, and feel unable to leave due to the effort of getting in to begin with. Go with your passion.


As I said, I have been working at a job I am fairly good at. Financially it is very rewarding. I have a 401K that is getting contributions (though I think it shrank over the last quarter, GRRRR!). I could buy a home, which in the current market might actually save me money.

If your current work is sufficient, and it makes you happy, why change? Obviously, if one of those things isn't true, I can see why you're considering change. But if your complaint is primarily environmental (e.g. coworkers putting you down), you can simply try to find new coworkers.


I cannot decide if I should be calmed or stressed out by your description of what a good letter of intent does. On the one hand, I do like talking about myself. On the other, talking about myself so that other people will care is not something I excel at. I suppose I should go get back to pounding out a statement.

I'd suggest that you be calmed. You know that it's important, but really, a letter of intent is like one side of a conversation. Madcrafter's model is a solid one, but let me offer one of my own.
To Whom it May Concern: Start with this.
Who you are and why you're here. "My name is ____ and I am applying to ___(name of program)___." Then, hammer a few honors. You should mention them in your resume, but bringing them up again in your letter is a solid decision. In academia, the biggest indicator of future achievement is past achievement.
"Attached, please find my resume/CV (whichever term applies), so that you can have a better impression of what I offer as a candidate." Stand-alone line. Reminds them to review the resume, which most of the time they just skim for check-marks.
"In addition to what you see in my resume/CV..." Here's where you speak briefly about specifically relevant curricular or professional work. Anything that you did in school or employment that lends itself is a good idea to mention here. You may also talk about extracurriculars that have some bearing on this program.
At this point, focus on what Madcrafter mentions. Why you feel you're a fit for the program, what opportunities it prepares you for, and what you would do if you were accepted and when you graduated. Be sure to drop some references to their mission statement or materials, to show that you've read them and are paying attention.
If they do interviews, as many do, "I am available to interview at your convenience." It doesn't matter if it's inconvenient to you; you will make yourself available if it's important. Include a "Thank you for your consideration" and a "I look forward to hearing from you." Then sign it.
That's it. It's not nearly as daunting as you'd think.

[tomandtish]

Red Fel hit on a lot of good points, some of which I want to expand on.

It’s important to understand that for many companies (and the people who do business with them), the perception may be just as important as the reality. There’s a mindset (at least in the USA) that the higher degree means more whether it actually does or not. It even carries over into the schools themselves.

Take lawyers. It’s been shown that while certain schools may do better or worse in certain types of law, what actually matters most are the inherent abilities of the student (how much attention they paid in class, the internships they had, their style in interacting with people, etc.). It has been debunked for a while that one school inherently turns out better lawyers than any other. But plenty of companies will still want that Harvard law graduate in their office because the name recognition carries with people.

Same for medicine. Assuming two people of equal ability, intellect, etc., where they do their residency and the follow-up education they get in areas of specialization is going to matter much more than where they went to med school itself. But the names of some schools still carry more weight.

Degrees are like that in general. There’s a lot of work out there that can be done by anyone, more that can be done by anyone with a Bachelor’s degree (or one in a field of study), and so forth. But if the work can be done by anyone with a BS degree, and they are insisting on PhDs, then you are probably looking at a company that is caring about image. They want to be able to say that their staff is more highly educated whether or not it matters. Now if they say a PhD is preferred but not required, then they are probably hoping to get PhD level applicants for BS prices.

But pay attention to this, because it will tell you something about the mindset of the company.

[Rockphed]

So, update time! I got the blasted thing done. Now to customize for other schools. Yay.

Next problem. How much of a letter of recommendation should I provide to recommenders?