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Callix
2007-06-11, 05:07 AM
I'm about to be involved in a campaign in which about the only restriction on characters is that they can't take any levels in a full caster/manifester class (including bard). Such characters exist in the world, but are not available as PCs. One of the others is willing to play a Paladin for healing, and I have a couple of ideas of things I'd like to try. All characters will start at level 1, any +0 LA race permitted. Abilities will be rolled, but give me an idea of where to put high/low rolls. The DM is using some variant to minimise MAD.

1. Archer. I'd quite like to play an archer character, either ranger or fighter. I'd like to know what people think are good ideas for classes, feats, races and tactics. Also whether this idea is totally stupid.

2. Barbarian. The idea of a hard-living, hard-drinking dwarven barbarian, possibly exiled from his clan, is another one I like. Masterwork greataxe? 320 gp. Masterwork breastplate? 350 gp. The look on an opponent's face when a dwarf lands 1d12+whatever with a Leap Attack? Priceless.

3. Two weapon fighting. This might be a bit hard to get into, but either Oversize Two Weapon Fighting or the Tempest PrC can get some good results. This would have to be fighter or ranger again.

Thanking you in advance for your time.

Zincorium
2007-06-11, 05:41 AM
Well, to try and best answer your questions:

1. Not really melee. Which, oddly, is a plus in it's case. Basically you drastically reduce your mobility problems compared to a melee character, but you also have to work on getting bonus damage. Scout 3/ Ranger x with Swift Hunter from the complete scoundrel is probably one of the best combinations. Highland Stalker is a decent replacement though.

2. Pretty straightforward, power attack is your best buddy as long as you know when to ratchet it up or down. Dwarves are a solid race for barbarians due to the constitution increase and the fact that in medium armor a dwaven and human barbarian move at the same speed. Look for some mithril platemail when you get higher levels. Also, Bear Warrior prestige class is a lot of fun.

3. Two weapon fighting is difficult and the rewards are only so-so, unless you're going into rogue or dervish or something of that nature it will perform underwhelmingly all game long. Oversized two weapon fighting is decent if you are using power attack, but really the damage dice increase matters so little past the first few levels that it doesn't matter that much. Tempest is underwhelming but straightforward.


On another note, if you can get ahold of Tome of Battle: The book of nine swords, that is probably the best thing you can possibly do. Without full casters, you'll probably be the most stylish and powerful character.

Callix
2007-06-11, 05:47 AM
Thanks Zincorium. I know 1 wasn't really melee, but I needed a good title :smallredface: . In short, 1 or 2 core, 3 if ToB? I'm gonna try and get ToB anyway, so that looks fun.

Zincorium
2007-06-11, 05:52 AM
Thanks Zincorium. I know 1 wasn't really melee, but I needed a good title :smallredface: . In short, 1 or 2 core, 3 if ToB? I'm gonna try and get ToB anyway, so that looks fun.

ToB for 2 or 3. Or anything else involving stabbing or bludgeoning people.

And avoid purely core if possible, melee characters were nerfed so heavily in the core books compared to casters that it's given them a bit of a complex. You'll have a lot more interesting options than 'swing, miss, swing, hit' if you look around.

serow
2007-06-11, 10:21 AM
Dragon Shaman?
:smallsmile:

Lemur
2007-06-11, 10:46 AM
Peerless Archer, a prestige class from Silver Marches (I think? an FR splatbook) is a pretty good way to go for archery. It has some decent abilities, including being able to power attack with a bow. It really is peerless in terms of archer prestige classes.

While it's not an archer, and has shorter range, being a Master Thrower (Complete Warrior) is another ranged option. Make sure you can get Power Throw (feat from Complete Adventurer) and you'll be able to deal competitive damage, and if you take the trip shot trick, you get some ranged battlefield control on top of that. Also note, that throwers are one of the instances where two weapon fighting is beneficial.

I think that ToB also had a throwing prestige class, but unfortunately I have yet to familiarize myself with the ins and outs of that book.

Otherwise, two weapon fighting is generally for sneak attackers, or characters that can find other ways to either stack large amounts of bonus damage dice to their attacks or benefit from multiple attacks.

As far as leap attacking barbarians go, it's a pretty tried and true method. Not much to add to this.

NEO|Phyte
2007-06-11, 11:28 AM
I think that ToB also had a throwing prestige class, but unfortunately I have yet to familiarize myself with the ins and outs of that book.

It does, its called the Bloodstorm Blade. It lets you do some awesome things with thrown weapons. I find that it synergises quite well with a TWF build, as it eliminates the need to get up next to your foe to damage them, and also saves you gold by not forcing you to buy loads of weapons to get a full attack off (Its 4th level ability lets thrown weapons return quick enough to full attack with, as an (Ex) ability). Its primary downside is that it does not advance manouver progression, which is sadface.

Person_Man
2007-06-11, 11:43 AM
My personal favorite non-caster non-psionic class is the Knight. It excels in melee combat, and can easily have high damage, maneuverability, hit points, and AC, starting at level 1. A mounted Stronheart Halfling with a lance and the right tactics is truly a sight to behold. Failing that, any Tome of Battle class will work fine.

But if the choice is Archer, Barbarian, or TWF, I'd choose Barbarian. I'd use the Complete Champion Pounce variant. Use Whirling Frenzy Rage variant. For Race, I'd use Darfelleon or the variant Kobold. You now have 3-4 attacks, every round, at first level.

Also, if you have trouble with healing, just have the Paladin pick up a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. It's cheap and effective.

Callix
2007-06-11, 03:54 PM
Thanks all. I guess I just don't have many of the cool splatbooks yet. And Person? no variant kobolds. Only the ridiculously weak MM kobolds. I guess I'll see eventually.