Building Beguiler

[raichen817]

Hi guys,

Looking for some help on building a beguiler. I've been looking online for help and most of what I've found references a lot of outside references (My DM is restricting us to PHBI and PHBII). I would appreciate some help on picking out appropriate feats and a race (He is open to different races as long as there is no LA). Thanks in advance!

[Barlen]

Hi guys,

Looking for some help on building a beguiler. I've been looking online for help and most of what I've found references a lot of outside references (My DM is restricting us to PHBI and PHBII). I would appreciate some help on picking out appropriate feats and a race (He is open to different races as long as there is no LA). Thanks in advance!

Here is a link to the beguiler handbook that may be helpful. It was saved from the wizards forums.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471398-The-New-Beguiler-Handbook-2008-(Nicolas_the_Paladin)

[raichen817]

Here is a link to the beguiler handbook that may be helpful. It was saved from the wizards forums.

Thank you Barlen! I actually have been using that as a reference, I was just checking to see if anyone had some insight as to what best feats etc. to pick from only PHBI and PHBII as most of the guide seems to use other sources

[stanprollyright]

In core-only you want to either be human for the bonus feat and skill or a gnome for the illusion bonuses. Whisper gnomes are awesome, but they're in Races of Stone, not sure if they're in the MM. As far as core feats you'll want: Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (Enchantment) and (Illusion), and Heighten Spell are all good choices to start with. Improved Counterspell or Improved Feint might be good too. Magic item crafting feats are great if you're into that. And if nothing else you can always grab Toughness.

[raichen817]

In core-only you want to either be human for the bonus feat and skill or a gnome for the illusion bonuses. Whisper gnomes are awesome, but they're in Races of Stone, not sure if they're in the MM. As far as core feats you'll want: Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (Enchantment) and (Illusion), and Heighten Spell are all good choices to start with. Improved Counterspell or Improved Feint might be good too. Magic item crafting feats are great if you're into that. And if nothing else you can always grab Toughness.

Thanks stanprollyright, appreciate the feedback!

[Ellowryn]

In a core + PHB2 game you are more powerful than a sorcerer unless you are constantly being thrown at your antithesis such as undead and constructs. That also means that you will play alot like one, so that means grabbing metamagic feats. Obviously you can ignore the empowered vs maximized debate as you will not be dealing damage with spells, but stuff like twin, extend, and heighten are going to be of importance. The good news is that with PHB2 on the table that means arcane thesis is on the table so find your favorite spell and start loading up on cheap metamagic.

Also note that feinting in combat is a VERY BAD IDEA as it requires you to get withing arms reach to perform, and with low HD and an emphasis on the non-physical stats mean you are a sing round of attacks away from being a smear. For races, if you actually want to be the face man then grab human, otherwise whisper gnome is to powerful to pass up.

[nedz]

Are PrCs available ?
Dipping a full casting PrC before Beguiler 7 will allow you to grab a 4th level spell with Advanced Learning; 2 more levels before Beguiler 11 has a similar effect.
The most flexible choice is probably the Shadow conjuration spells.

Is Arcane Disciple available ?
This is a very powerful feat for Beguilers.

I'm not going to mention Rainbow Servant — oops — though that only breaks the game from level 15.

[tiercel]

Human is always strong for the feat and skill points; gnome is strong since its illusion DC boost parallels the Spell Focus: Illusion you probably were going to be taking anyway (and stacks with it). If the famous/infamous Whisper Gnome is not in play, you could still upgrade the standard Gnome to Forest Gnome (MMI or SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm#forestGnome): gain pass without trace, communication with forest critters, and +Hide, especially in forests).

You could do worse than dropping your feats into Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus for Illusion and Enchantment, given that's your schtick. Interestingly, there's not a lot of feat support for Beguiler in PHBII, unless you want to focus on being the party face (Master Manipulator and Wanderer's Diplomacy are interesting for their niche uses).

Max UMD, of course, since that gives you plenty of Plan B when you stumble into the Elemental Dungeon of Undead Plant Ooze. Also, get a circlet of persuasion (DMG), for UMD and opposed Cha checks for your charm spells, if nothing else. (See if you can just combine it with a headband of intellect, even using DMG rules.)

You don't have much choice in terms of PrCs: Loremaster is about it, and its entry comes just too late for the Advanced-Learning-deferral trick. Probably you want to just stay Beguiler; I don't think it's worth delaying your spellcasting progression to defer Advanced Learning.

[Khedrac]

At mid-to-low levels Skill Focus: Use Magic Device can be really useful. Ask about retraining it away later.
(At really low levels you still cannot use anything so it is not worth it, but around levels 6 it can make UMD reliable rather than a "it should work".)

It is hard to go wrong with Improve Initiative and going first so you can buff your party can be really useful.
(My human beguiler is playing Rise of the RuneLords, all but one of the party has II and we have a dragon shaman who keeps Senses aura up - the DM rarely gets to go first even when the monsters have good initiatives.)

Spell Focus: Enchantment and Spell Focus: Illusion - the usefulness of these depends on how high your intelligence is. With a really high Int (18 starting at least) then you might not need to bother. At 16 or lower they become more important (lower point buy can make 18s not worth starting with).
They also come in useful when trying to land spells on casters (or anyone with a good will save, but especially priests) but one normally expects them to make their saves.
Yes - virtually all of your offensive spells are Will Saves, it will be a problem at times.

Metamagic - as people said useful, but you need to balance the increased spell levels and casting time with usefulness (just about all the metamagic cost reducers are not in you permitted books).
That said, you get a lot of spells - my beguiler currently only runs out of 4th level spell slots when he uses them up on 3rd level spells! (He's 11th I think and in the last fight he must have cast 7 or 8 dispel magics - I didn't get the one spell I wanted to bring down, but it really did keep the opponent in check.)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Spell wise, you'll want the Shadow line ASAP

[raichen817]

Thanks for all the responses everyone, very helpful!