Rage V's Frenzy

[Jimbob]

I am currently runnning a group where one player a Bar wants to become a frenzied berserker! But reading over it I have noticed a few things, If you take any damage you go into a frenzy straight away. But lets say you are in combact when this happens and its not a arrow trap you set off. Can you rage then frenzy or frenzy then rage and do they stack? or does the greatest bonus aply? and if so does this mean if a bonus from rage is better then a frenzy you use that but you use the str and con bonus from frenzy instead of the rages?

Hope that makes some sense:smalltongue:

[Droodle]

Rage and frenzy stack.

[OzymandiasVolt]

...and shifting stacks with both. That's why Shifter barbarian/FBs are so scary.

[Rykaj]

They're not so bad. When they're in a frenzy they can't make balance checks. Just put em in a grease :smallbiggrin:

[ZeroNumerous]

They're not so bad. When they're in a frenzy they can't make balance checks. Just put em in a grease :smallbiggrin:

A balance check is reactive, it doesn't require any forethought. They can't consciously choose to make a balance check, but hitting them with a spell that forces one allows them to make a balance check.

[Person_Man]

Rage and Frenzy stack.

Also, depending on how your DM structures the campaign, Frenzied Berserker could be a phenomenally bad idea.

Its ridiculously easy to set off Frenzy. You must make a Save every time you take damage, and the DC is = 10 + the cumulative damage you've taken that turn. So unless you're very high level, its highly that you'll use your Frenzy in every combat or trap encounter, starting with your first encounter in the morning, until you run out of Frenzy uses. This makes it very hard to Save your Frenzy uses for when you really need them, like BBEG battles. I tend to use 4+ combat encounters per game day (as the DMG suggests for balance issues), but your DM might use less (good for the FB) or more (very, very bad for the FB).

Also, everyone in the party should memorize multiple Calm Emotions and buy Wands and invest in UMD. A Frenzied Berserker with a smart build has Pounce, a large reach, and a massive damage output. It's very easy for them to kill everyone on the battlefield and then turn to some other PC and slaughter them as well before the other PC has even gotten it's chance in the initiative order.

[AtomicKitKat]

Frenzied Berserkers are fine. You just need the player to be smart enough to max out his Will Save(so he always makes it even in his sleep), or totally tank it(so that he easily fails Calm Emotions and the like). The whole "pinprick triggers frenzy" is a fallacy, since anything that insignificant is also not going to raise the ire of a big bruiser like that(Plus you usually go in from Barbarian, so there's another factor, Damage Reduction). Seriously, it would be ridiculously anti-climactic(yes, with that C in the middle, else we're talking weather here, people). "Oh noes,:smalleek: I have rolled over a rock :smallannoyed: in my sleep and it is after midnight. :smallmad: KILL!!!!! :smallfurious:"

That being said, PHB2's Steadfast Determination(is that right? Uses Con instead of Wis for Will Saves, and never fail on a 1) helps, if you have a good Constitution(and with Rage, it gets better). It also helps to Rage, then Frenzy, since both use your "modified" Constitution modifier to determine duration.

[Were-Sandwich]

Martial Study (Iron Heart Surge) should be taken by every frenzied bezerker asap.

[Roderick_BR]

Don't forget that you can make a Will save with DC 15(or 14, I don't remember) to end a frenzy. The bad point is that the frenzy is still spent. The good point is that it keeps you from slaughtering your friends.

[Skjaldbakka]

But there is still the fact that saving your frenzy for the big battle is hard to do.

[Person_Man]

Don't forget that you can make a Will save with DC 15(or 14, I don't remember) to end a frenzy. The bad point is that the frenzy is still spent. The good point is that it keeps you from slaughtering your friends.

It's DC 20 to end Frenzy early. Hard to do for a build with a weak Will Save and Wis as a traditional dump stat. Steadfast Determination helps out with this a lot (switches Will bonus from Wis to Con). But you still auto fail Will Saves on a natural 1. So if everyone doesn't have Calm Emotions or something similar ready, it's pretty much inevitable that your Frenzied Berserker will kill a party member eventually. And FB are very feat hungry, so you might not have access to Steadfast Determination until late in your build.

And keep in mind that the moment you end your Frenzy, you're susceptible to starting it again. So its entirely possible that you could get ambushed by a few Kobold sorcerers, have Frenzy set off, kill all of your enemies, succeed in ending your Frenzy to avoid killing your party members, and then have it set off again by lingering spell effects that damage you over multiple rounds.