You Know... There is a Window..

[torugo]

Laws of drama are ruling over inteligence. Blackwing couldnt see the Windows From where the vampire câme. Roy is spending a lot of time trying tô reach durkon inside a round sphere with rádios Bigger than his sword. There is a Spear nearby...You Know it you already used it.

[Rift_Wolf]

That spear is 10-15ft up a wall and buried deep enough into stone for a guy in Armour to use it as a foothold. Also I doubt a spear will get through a Vampire's DR without some power attacks; which considering the vamps AC and the fact he can go total defence now means that the Spears not viable.

The open window is harder to explain away; I guess because the Vampire's right next to it, Blackwing doesn't want to risk the AOO? And now the Vampire's gone, s/he doesn't want to abandon his pet friends (although he's not in a position to do much).

If I was Blackwing, I'd probably have tried the window and risked an AOO than squeezing under the door. Then again, the door was nearby and the window was the other side of the room where the vampire was, so it might've not been worth risking ending the turn next to the vamp.

For what it's worth, I kinda agree about the window. Not so much on the spear.

[BaronOfHell]

Is the window open? I thought it just wasn't airtight...

[SaintRidley]

It's a porthole, and it's not open. Gontor came through the very narrow openings presented by its bolt holes while as a mist - that is, one molecule at a time.

[Pyrous]

About the window, see this post by Jasdoif.

Note that the vampire exits (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1014.html) through the same spot he entered (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1012.html).

[Rift_Wolf]

It's a porthole, and it's not open. Gontor came through the very narrow openings presented by its bolt holes while as a mist - that is, one molecule at a time.

So he does. Looking closer, what looks like a continuous trail of smoke in 1014 is actually showing smoke inside and outside, passing through the porthole frame.
Consider my open window arguments quelled.

[7RED7]

As far as the spear goes, Roy grabbing the middle of the spear is the furthest point at which force was applied to it after it became embedded in the wall. His jump from the spear was very near the wall. If he tried to wrench it out of the wall by grabbing the end of the spear then he'd be easily doubling the highest previous moment of force on the shaft. So basically, he's only put about half the torque on the spear compared to the possible maximum he could have. Whether or not maximum force applied at the end of the spear would break it loose remains to be seen, but just because previous reduced forces didn't break it loose doesn't mean that further application of the same forces in a different location. He's got some horizontal forces coming from the foot bracing while clambering onto it, but it seems to be negligible compared to everything resisting it in the spear head.

TL:DR; He could maybe have a spear again if he wanted to, depending on just how solidly it's embedded. It's only taken about half of what Roy's actions could give it.

[Peelee]

It's a porthole, and it's not open. Gontor came through the very narrow openings presented by its bolt holes while as a mist - that is, one molecule at a time.

Just because it bugs me when people use the term when it's not applicable.......

Molecules are very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY small. And there's one whole helluva lot of them in any given substance that you can see with the naked eye.

So he probably came in much faster than that.

"Very" is a totally acceptable modifier if you just use it enough.

[SaintRidley]

Just because it bugs me when people use the term when it's not applicable.......

Molecules are very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY small. And there's one whole helluva lot of them in any given substance that you can see with the naked eye.

So he probably came in much faster than that.

"Very" is a totally acceptable modifier if you just use it enough.

Well, he's in a diffuse gaseous state and can move all of himself at a fixed speed. If he wanted to, he could have arranged each of his molecules to enter one at a time very fast.

Or I could have been engaging in some slight hyperbole. That's also possible.

[littlebum2002]

Just because it bugs me when people use the term when it's not applicable.......

Molecules are very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY small. And there's one whole helluva lot of them in any given substance that you can see with the naked eye.

So he probably came in much faster than that.

"Very" is a totally acceptable modifier if you just use it enough.

Right. If he went "one molecule at a time" it would take him about the length of time the universe has existed to get through that porthole.




Laws of drama are ruling over inteligence. Blackwing couldnt see the Windows From where the vampire câme. Roy is spending a lot of time trying tô reach durkon inside a round sphere with rádios Bigger than his sword. There is a Spear nearby...You Know it you already used it.


As far as the spear goes, Roy grabbing the middle of the spear is the furthest point at which force was applied to it after it became embedded in the wall. His jump from the spear was very near the wall. If he tried to wrench it out of the wall by grabbing the end of the spear then he'd be easily doubling the highest previous moment of force on the shaft. So basically, he's only put about half the torque on the spear compared to the possible maximum he could have. Whether or not maximum force applied at the end of the spear would break it loose remains to be seen, but just because previous reduced forces didn't break it loose doesn't mean that further application of the same forces in a different location. He's got some horizontal forces coming from the foot bracing while clambering onto it, but it seems to be negligible compared to everything resisting it in the spear head.

TL:DR; He could maybe have a spear again if he wanted to, depending on just how solidly it's embedded. It's only taken about half of what Roy's actions could give it.

So he gets the spear, throws it at Durkula, does ~10 damage or so .... then what, exactly?

[Peelee]

Well, he's in a diffuse gaseous state and can move all of himself at a fixed speed. If he wanted to, he could have arranged each of his molecules to enter one at a time very fast.

Or I could have been engaging in some slight hyperbole. That's also possible.

Hyperbole is far and away the single worst literary device that anyone could ever use, and the only people who employ it aspire to one day rise up to the lofty ranks of the dregs of society.

The only thing worse is simile, like a disease upon the literary world.

[torugo]

Ok i Was mistaken about the Window really didnt see it as an airhole.

But Still Roy is being dumb by climbing a round sphere and hope somehow his sword reaches durkon. If he Knows architecture he Knows geometry enough tô see that effort is a Waste of a round.

Even if the Spear is not the Best idea its Still Better than what he did Last.

[brian 333]

Roy wasn't stupidly trying to hit Durkula with his pointy stick: he was angling for a saving throw against the spell. Who among us has not attempted to convince the DM to allow us to make a second save, or attempt one where none is ordinarily allowed, in such a frustrating situation? Really, go ahead and roll the D20 you are holding then raise your hand if you have ever done this.

[Rodin]

Hyperbole is far and away the single worst literary device that anyone could ever use, and the only people who employ it aspire to one day rise up to the lofty ranks of the dregs of society.

The only thing worse is simile, like a disease upon the literary world.

It's...it's beautiful

[Jasdoif]

But Still Roy is being dumb by climbing a round sphere and hope somehow his sword reaches durkon. If he Knows architecture he Knows geometry enough tô see that effort is a Waste of a round.

Even if the Spear is not the Best idea its Still Better than what he did Last.I disagree.

It looks to me like Roy's accepted that he can't win this on his own, and has positioned himself to limit HPoH's options to the extent that he is able (Roy being directly above means rising in gaseous form will end antilife shell, and also that if antilife shell ends or is dispelled Roy's in position to attack immediately) on the off chance he gets some backup.

Roy going for the spear, on the other hand, would require spending time to get out of range in order to get a spear, which would then need to be thrown at HPoH...which would be hard-pressed to do enough damage to be noticeable for more than one round, and which will be difficult to repeat since the spear'll be inside the antilife shell if it hits.

That's a pretty high opportunity cost for an advantage that barely qualifies as "fleeting".

[blunk]

Right. If he went "one molecule at a time" it would take him about the length of time the universe has existed to get through that porthole.Neh, using 70 liters of gaseous CO2 with two molecules' width of space between each as a point of comparison, the Google says:

((3 * (.07 * (m^3)) * (1.9 * (kg / (m^3)))) / (44 * (g / mol))) * (6e23 / mol) * (116 pm) * ((6 second) / (20 feet)) =
19 685 255.7 years

[Cazero]

Neh, using 70 liters of gaseous CO2 with two molecules' width of space between each as a point of comparison, the Google says:

((3 * (.07 * (m^3)) * (1.9 * (kg / (m^3)))) / (44 * (g / mol))) * (6e23 / mol) * (116 pm) * ((6 second) / (20 feet)) =
19 685 255.7 years

How fast are your molecules moving? edited : Nevermind, at that point they won't get inside at the speed that we're interested in without breaking c or something.
But more importantly, if we work with an arbitrary inside/not inside dichotomy and an absurdly accurate division of time, is is very possible that only one molecule enters/leaves the ship at any given time if you don't make the faulty assumption that there is only one entry point.

[Alchemist_Fire]

Molecules are very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY small. And there's one whole helluva lot of them in any given substance that you can see with the naked eye.


Holy mole-y (bahahahaha, GET IT?), gods praise Science!

[littlebum2002]

But more importantly, if we work with an arbitrary inside/not inside dichotomy and an absurdly accurate division of time, is is very possible that only one molecule enters/leaves the ship at any given time if you don't make the faulty assumption that there is only one entry point.

If one is entering at a time it doesn't matter how many entrance points there are. There can be one entrance point or a million, but still, only one molecule enters at a time. If there are multiple entrance points, and each has molecules flowing through them together at the same time, then that would be more than one at a time.

[Cazero]

If one is entering at a time it doesn't matter how many entrance points there are. There can be one entrance point or a million, but still, only one molecule enters at a time. If there are multiple entrance points, and each has molecules flowing through them together at the same time, then that would be more than one at a time.

Given a sufficiently small delta time and a binary state of inside/not inside, it is highly unlikely for more than one molecule to transit from one state to the other during the same time frame regardless of the number of entry points.
Or without sciency words, 'one molecule at a time' works for people walking through door. You just just need to cut time in small enough pieces.

[littlebum2002]

Given a sufficiently small delta time and a binary state of inside/not inside, it is highly unlikely for more than one molecule to transit from one state to the other during the same time frame regardless of the number of entry points.
Or without sciency words, 'one molecule at a time' works for people walking through door. You just just need to cut time in small enough pieces.

OH, so you're saying the first molecule doesn't have to be completely through before the second starts up. Totally agree in that case.

[rewinn]

Neh, using 70 liters of gaseous CO2 with two molecules' width of space between each as a point of comparison, the Google says:

((3 * (.07 * (m^3)) * (1.9 * (kg / (m^3)))) / (44 * (g / mol))) * (6e23 / mol) * (116 pm) * ((6 second) / (20 feet)) =
19 685 255.7 years

Can you re-do the calculation with a somewhat larger molecule :smallwink::

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BMKR8j_7F7QtfA1PlJhgzHEyzEJNFl4-dVEZLCOUM9BgOFz2VNZoO3kX8yzlJ90-2om3p3wuWqswjIfXZ7ib6KPVQKZi5HvLlgYKXCZLvoh_LqQ3bb-uJumuKJVtjq5C9aNl9rK7CjvYOn8cUW_ijC-U4TLGjvIDwVJxFdyp1LlNk4ROjSrKYEVrzGqJozT7vC7WOUBvt TXgSJCGr4Cnm8StzgxZb7HWHwFa9F14GHyAhuM9P6Bm5OsSd5u VFmeVJKfsXr_OXRpNIH8v9G2bNNANIUsOgtK0dzUmIbpJgOQCz AhZKwEw272tydU3Cu4gbvViFU1lvvBXP5wxid0tjmm-catuyFDZ4Nt48rlvZlxzo-NqNYEFVCk2RkJZA8GOK1VyZSikKpGrHoXNxmv5kbYR-rpL0fR61LEl-GUfX7qmAWwgVndHp2_z9mn3pjDyeoT91owH3WcgF0ibGhFN-3SXnzTxfSGC4qoQgIX7gMSR_A1FEelC2G2gN8YXen_Keex_E_1 XSdwMb7I8V1aKK0ypxY2jjQ-9NhF7P5r5wypE=w337-h72-no

[Jasdoif]

Holy mole-y (bahahahaha, GET IT?)Avogadro does not approve. :smalltongue:

[SaintRidley]

I have unwittingly caused a catgirl genocide here.

[rodneyAnonymous]

How many guacs are in a bowl of guacamole?

Avocado's number!

[Hamste]

That spear is 10-15ft up a wall and buried deep enough into stone for a guy in Armour to use it as a foothold. Also I doubt a spear will get through a Vampire's DR without some power attacks; which considering the vamps AC and the fact he can go total defence now means that the Spears not viable.

The high priest of Odin was holding it and it did enough damage that it was able to embed in the wall deep enough for a guy in armor was able to use it as a foothold so it is probably magical enough that it can get get past a Vampire's DR. No way that I can see for Roy to retrieve it though.

[littlebum2002]

The high priest of Odin was holding it and it did enough damage that it was able to embed in the wall deep enough for a guy in armor was able to use it as a foothold so it is probably magical enough that it can get get past a Vampire's DR. No way that I can see for Roy to retrieve it though.

So it will get past the Vampires Damage Reduction (since apparently it plunging into the wall proves it is made of silver?), and cause 1d6 damage to the vampire, after which it is stuck in the antilife shell.

What does that accomplish, exactly?

[Hamste]

So it will get past the Vampires Damage Reduction (since apparently it plunging into the wall proves it is made of silver?), and cause 1d6 damage to the vampire, after which it is stuck in the antilife shell.

What does that accomplish, exactly?

The point is that it does enough damage that it can get past being reduced by 10 and still do damage, theoretically a regular spear can get past the DR of a vampire if the user has enough damage bonuses but it was suggested that Roy would need to power attack to be able to do that. Not my problem what they do with it, I was just pointing out that yes it could do enough damage to get past the DR.

[Jasdoif]

The point is that it does enough damage that it can get past being reduced by 10 and still do damage, theoretically a regular spear can get past the DR of a vampire if the user has enough damage bonuses but it was suggested that Roy would need to power attack to be able to do that. Not my problem what they do with it, I was just pointing out that yes it could do enough damage to get past the DR.A standard Medium spear does d8 damage, Class & Level Geekery puts Roy at Str 24, so that's +7 damage on a thrown weapon....So max damage is 15. That would indeed get 5 damage past DR....exactly how much damage HPoH fast heals away every round.

[JustWantedToSay]

Right. If he went "one molecule at a time" it would take him about the length of time the universe has existed to get through that porthole.

At *300 m/s and atoms moving one at a time, 150 atom-lengths apart, I calculated less than 100,000 years.
Atoms going through electron shells touching, then it's less than 700 years.

So molecule by molecule has to be somewhere in between those.


*presumably magic could make the individual molecules go fast, as long as the centre of mass wasn't moving faster than the alloted move speed, i chose a round number less than the speed of sound.
Mist 20/feet per round ~ 1m per second. So if you want to limit molecules by that, you can multiply both numbers by 300.
200,000-30,000,000 years is still much less than the age of the universe.

[Darth Paul]

Hyperbole is far and away the single worst literary device that anyone could ever use, and the only people who employ it aspire to one day rise up to the lofty ranks of the dregs of society.



You mean (GASP)... POLITICIANS???

[Mandor]

How fast are your molecules moving? edited : Nevermind, at that point they won't get inside at the speed that we're interested in without breaking c or something.
But more importantly, if we work with an arbitrary inside/not inside dichotomy and an absurdly accurate division of time, is is very possible that only one molecule enters/leaves the ship at any given time if you don't make the faulty assumption that there is only one entry point.

Well, if the molecules were to move 40 times faster than the speed of light, they could make as many openings as they needed :smallwink:

[KorvinStarmast]

Well, if the molecules were to move 40 times faster than the speed of light, they could make as many openings as they needed :smallwink: And travel through wyrmholes, this being the DnD-verse. :smallbiggrin: