Survivable/Powerful Warrior Role with anti-Min/Max DM

[Willie the Duck]

Here is the situation. I am starting a campaign with a group of old friends who have played a couple times a year for the past decade, but were really into 3.5 during what I think of as the peak (first wave of 3.5 splats were out, so Complete Arcane yes, Complete Mage no. No Incarnum, ToB, etc.). Our group is starting out at 2nd level and we have a low-str, high-dex druid played by someone new to post 2e D&D, a ranger-rogue, and a cleric-wizard, likely to go into mystic theurge. Before anyone says "they should..." and suggest how sub-optimal those might be, let's be clear that I am not in charge of them.

I figure we will get creamed if we don't have someone who can front line until the druid can play that role, so I need to play a warrior role (with whatever class).

The DM has never really gotten into getting elbow deep into the rules since the transition from 2e. He tends to use old 2e modules with minimal revamping except to use the modern monster stats (we did Against the Giants without him cutting down the number of giants per encounter. It was... a challenge). Therefore, I cannot just say, "screw it, I'm with my friends, I'll just play for flavor" because then we'll get splatted.

So that's the idea. Kind of I have to play for power without being blatant about it. No dipping into 2-3 PrCs for certain levels of benefit and getting out. Can't just play a CoDzilla cleric. ToB classes probably are allowed, but none of us know how to build one out for 20 levels of play, since by the time it came out, we had moved on from D&D for a decade. The one thing I have going for me is a really, really good stat roll: 17, 16, 16, 14, 13, 10. What are the good options?

I've looked at barbarian builds. Frenzied Berserker is out because I can't trust my party to manage that as it needs to be. Runescarred Barbarian is interesting (giving him later game access to spells like airwalk and anti-magic field that the mystic theurge might not have to cast on him), but is three useless feats in the first 7 levels, and doesn't add anything to combat. Bear Warrior gives great strength (when raging), but is dependent on getting "while shapechanged" magic items, meaning that the druid (and his companion) and I will be competing for the same treasure. I know about leap attack, robellar's gambit, shock trooper, etc., but I don't know if those alone work consistently enough in play to survive in a tier 1 world with sub-optimal partners.

Anyone else have some insight on those choices, other options, etc?
Thanks!

[Fouredged Sword]

I would just stick to the basics. Dungeon Crasher fighter. Starting at level 2 you have your main trick and it just gets better as you level.

Fighter 6 / X where X is whatever full BAB PRC or class you like. Paladin is a good option if you don't dump CHA, and it doesn't look like you need to.

Or warblade 20 from TOB. You really can't mess up a warblade. It's actually really hard. Every option is at least pretty good. Just remember your maneuvers reset every time you full attack or attack with a standard action.

[J-H]

Going off the beaten path (WAY off), a Psychic Warrior/Sangehirn may be a good option if you dip in and out of Sangehirn when you need to pick up a more offensive power (The Psywar list isn't that great anyway). It's intended for Psions, but it's got 3/4 BAB, 9/10 manifesting, and if you take it all the way to 10, Fast Healing 3, & DR 5.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625c

[Rubik]

Just plain psychic warrior would work if you focused on using a reach weapon, Expansion, and Improved Trip. Everything on top of that is gravy. Look at the soulbound weapon alternative class feature (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) and use it for special fights that need special weapons. Don't have Improved Sunder but encounter a hydra? Sundering is a +1 quality that does about what you'd expect. Fighting a swarm of specters? Ghost touch is a +1. It's a very nice ACF.

Alternatively, go druid and focus more on being a tanky one than a castery one. Two druids means two animal companions means more hit points on the field and more targets for both druids' buffs.

[mabriss lethe]

You could also think about making a con heavy bard. (to aid with surviving) With just a little work you can give your whole party a nice boost, and depending upon the books in play, you can make quite a serviceable melee build or boost it up to 9th level casting.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another solid option is Psi-War or psion into Crystal master. It's an official web expansion that got updated for 3.5. It offers some nice boosts to stats and saves that stack with just about everything.

Just Psi-War is perfectly acceptable at level 2.

[stanprollyright]

I suggest the A-Game Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?457144-Repost-A-Game-Paladin-20-Bardic-Music-Paladin-Build). If that's out, Warblade is good and hard to mess up, or you can always go with a standard AoO tripping/lockdown build (Lion Spirit Totem Wolf Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2/Fighter X)

[MisterKaws]

Lawful incarnate is probably the best pure-meatshield class out there, just by shaping things right you get immunity to 90% of all save-or-die stuff, and your hp rivals that of a great wyrm, just get shape soulmeld for mauling gauntlets, split chakra to get +1 skillful gauntlets, then do some power attacking 'cause lawful incarnate has obscene amounts of bonuses to attack.

[glitterbaby]

If ToB is on the table then I'm going to suggest a Crusader. Manuevers and stances make for some great utility/damage/durability and Steely Resolve/Furious Counterstrike helps to feel tankier while also dishing out more damage. You get Cha to saves and smites, even if the smites are really sparse. If you grab Steadfast Determination and a Ring of Evasion or something of the sort you'll feel nearly impervious to magic with your super high saves and ignoring partial effects.

[Fouredged Sword]

If ToB is on the table then I'm going to suggest a Crusader. Manuevers and stances make for some great utility/damage/durability and Steely Resolve/Furious Counterstrike helps to feel tankier while also dishing out more damage. You get Cha to saves and smites, even if the smites are really sparse. If you grab Steadfast Determination and a Ring of Evasion or something of the sort you'll feel nearly impervious to magic with your super high saves and ignoring partial effects.

If this is the player's first trip into TOB, I would suggest Warblade over Crusader. Warblade is just easier to learn with a cleaner recovery method that doesn't involve die rolls. Warblades rock a d12 HD and with those rolls he has no reason not to boost Con fairly high.

[Segev]

I would suggest playing a psion or wilder. Wilder, despite being a pretty weak class overall, can play the tank fairly well with good choices in the build.

Either way, the power you want to focus on to tank with is Vigor. The psionic power Vigor is level 1 Psion/Wilder, and gives you 5 hp for every pp you spend on it. (You cannot spend more pp than your manifester level, though, in any one manifestation. So a level 1 psion with no tricks can only get 5 hp per use...but can re-use it when those are gone.)

A Wilder can Wild Surge to be effectively level 2, and it even pays the extra pp for free. So a Wilder at level 1 can Wild Surge for 10 temporary hp for 1 pp. Give him a longspear as his simple weapon, and he has Reach.

The next trick works better (slightly) for psions, but is not doable before level 3 (or 4, for Wilders): Pick up a psicrystal, and learn the power Share Pain, which you will use with your psicrystal. Now, you and your psicrystal each take half damage, and take half the damage the other one does. Put your psicrystal somewhere it has total cover. Manifest Vigor, and use the Share Powers feature of the psicrystal to give it as many temp hp as you get (including those from any wild surges).

Since you split damage half and half with the psicrystal, you're effectively getting 10 hp per 1 pp you expend on Vigor!

For low and low-mid levels, that's a lot of tanking prowess.

[Flickerdart]

I would avoid psionics, because they might spook a DM who is used to 2nd edition. By the same metric, I would avoid web content, since "it's not in a book" can sound a lot like "it didn't get playtesting" to someone who doesn't suspect WotC's QA department for D&D is staffed by anemic sloths.

Here are some strategies for avoiding DMGs (deserved or otherwise). You don't need to use all of them, but using as many as you can will maximize your ability to stay under the radar.

Use a core class, without multiclassing or with multiclassing into just one PrC from the books your DM knows (Complete Arcane, Complete Warrior, etc). Dips look suspicious.
Use a core race. Human is a book-dodging miracle - the most powerful race is also the most vanilla.
Instead of optimizing one trick, distribute your capabilities. That way you make yourself counter-proof and avoid the need for having counters to begin with. Be 50% better than your party members at everything, instead of 100% better at one thing.
Focus on passive options. If you don't say "I activate expansion and then git gud" then your DM will not be able to have a kneejerk reaction to this expansion thing killing all his guys.
Focus on defensive options. It's okay if you deal half as much damage and take half as much damage, because the end result is the same (it just takes longer), but because people tend to focus on peaks and valleys, you look a lot less powerful.
Don't rely on burst power to get you out of scrapes. This relates to the passive option thing above, but if the wizard suddenly declared "oh, I'm going to turn into a dragon now" halfway into the fight against the giants when half the party is dead, both the party and the DM will be upset; the party because you let them die, and the DM because you were hiding this ace from him, and now he has to rebalance future encounters with this in mind.
However, holding power in reserve is not a bad thing if you find an ability that is sufficiently taxing or expensive to use. Remember that roleplaying can sell any optimization if you do it convincingly enough - for instance, a scroll of gate to summon a balor that can beat up your enemies is a great one because not only is such a scroll super expensive, but now you're indebted to a balor, and what a great hook that is! Plus you probably contracted a cult to get the scroll crafted in the first place. Plot hooks, baby!

[glitterbaby]

If this is the player's first trip into TOB, I would suggest Warblade over Crusader. Warblade is just easier to learn with a cleaner recovery method that doesn't involve die rolls. Warblades rock a d12 HD and with those rolls he has no reason not to boost Con fairly high.

I always forget the Warblade has the d12. Every DM I've played with has thought it was rather silly that the tank class got a d10 and Warblade got a d12 so they've switched them, my bad. I still think a Crusader would feel better and if you're learning a new subsystem anyway I don't think it's measurably more difficult to learn the Crusader over the Warblade reset mechanics. Crusader also resets on it's own, Warblade takes an action.

[Cyphrus]

I'd make a second call for a Dungeoncrasher Fighter.

Maybe something like Dungeoncrasher 6/Lion+Wolf Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2/Warblade X.

If you are a human with Jotunbrud, or say a Goliath, taking Knockback and a few other feats makes this a very versatile build, you are good at charging, tripping, bullrushing and sundering, with a little battlefield control. Defensive boosts from the maneuvers are just gravy.

Quickie build would be something like...

01: (HBF)JotunBrud, I.B.R., Power Attack
02: DungeonCrash pt.1
03: Knockback
04: Imp. Sunder
05: -
06: Shock-Trooper, DungeonCrash pt.2
07:Trade Fast Movement for Pounce, Take Whirling frenzy or other rage to taste.
08:Trade Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip.
09: Warblade stuff from here on out.

You'd have an initiator level of 5 here, Suggested maneuvers to take are Wall of Blades Moment of Perfect mind and Iron Heart Surge, and Hunter's Sense Stance is amazing for utility, having scent as an ability is a godsend.

Books for this build are surprisingly light. All you need are PHB, ToB, Dungeonscape, Unearthed Arcana and Complete Champion & Warrior.

The only cavet here is Jotunbrud, it's a regional feat from Races of Faerun, you count as large, more or less a lesser powerful build, no big weapons, but the other goodies are to be had from large size.

[denthor]

This is simple I rent a straight fighter in 3.5 she use Halbert net Whip at first level period take improve trip gives you an extra blow and another blow when the enemy gets up. I ran that 6level fighter 6mage 6 level thief

[Willie the Duck]

I would avoid psionics, because they might spook a DM who is used to 2nd edition. By the same metric, I would avoid web content, since "it's not in a book" can sound a lot like "it didn't get playtesting" to someone who doesn't suspect WotC's QA department for D&D is staffed by anemic sloths.

That's where we are. I can't use web content, or subst. class abilities. I can pick a PrC, and even take some more of the core classes I had before it before finishing it out, but certainly not dipping in for just a certain ability and then abandoning it. I could probably do either a psionic class or a ToB class. If I were to, I'd choose ToB since I haven't before. Everyone says it's hard to screw up. I say "point me to the build". Just following the prereqs and which class gets which domains or whatever they're called is pretty hard to do first time out the gate.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Warforged crusader, take Adamantine Body, Extra Granted Maneuver, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and Robilar's Gambit, first and last feats in order. Simple, but pretty effective. Note that Combat Expertise + Improved Trip can be replaced by Barbarian 2, but that requires an ACF.

The timing of Combat Reflexes over Expertise + Trip depends on your dexterity score, how easily you can get a +dexterity item, and how often your DM throws trippable monsters/AoO-provoking monsters at you.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ok, here you go.

Human
Warblade 2

Str 17, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 10.

Skills - 7 ranked to max

Balance
Climb
Concentration
Diplomacy
Intimidate
Tumble
Jump

Your strikes to select are suggested as the following

Steel Wind - Standard action to make two attacks, one per target (hit two things at once)
Sapphire Nightmare Blade - Make an easy concentration check and deal extra damage and make the target lose their dex to AC VS your attack
Stone Bones - Hit a target. If you hit, gain DR5/adi for a round. This is great for hitting something and being ready for it to turn around and full attack you.

Maneuver you know but don't have readied -
Moment of Perfect Mind - This replaces a will save with a concentration check. Really, really handy at later levels.

Stance - Here you have a choice to make. The best stance is probably Punishing stance, but that is a really aggressive move (+1d6 damage -2 AC). A more defensive stance is likely going to be Stonefoot stance, but that turns off if you move (swift action to restart). +2 ac vs large or larger targets is nice, but the bonus damage is hard to forget. Bolstering voice is also nice to boost everyone's willsaves.

Finally feats
1 - Power attack
2 - Improved Initiative

Done.

[Willie the Duck]

That certainly seems more straightforward than most things I've found on searches. Where would you suggest it go (and here broad themes are okay, although specific level-by-level suggestions are certainly appreciated)?

[Flickerdart]

I would recommend Stone Power instead of Power Attack. It gives you temporary HP instead of more damage (remember, less flashy = better!), but otherwise works like PA and qualifies you for things like PA.

[Fouredged Sword]

That certainly seems more straightforward than most things I've found on searches. Where would you suggest it go (and here broad themes are okay, although specific level-by-level suggestions are certainly appreciated)?

I would consider stone power, but I tend to prefer that on my crusaders. The stone bones strike preforms much the same function. Power attack adds killing power and plays well with so many of your strikes. Power attack just becomes so much more important later in the game to maintain your ability to drop a target a round.

As far as feats go, exotic weapon prof spiked chain is nice. Remember, if you want to play with another type of exotic weapon you can switch the feat to it with your class features, if say you find a katori resin version, or an alchemical gold version. The inclusive reach is really nice for your strikes, allowing you flexibility when aiming your hits. I would even consider switching improved initiative with EWP and moving improved initiative to 3rd level.

As for what direction to take the build, well, you don't really have to take in to a specific place if you just want to go warblade 20. There are some high points you want to hit, but you don't really have to worry about much of a concept of direction.

long winded wondering thoughts.

You basically can pick several of the following things to do well by focusing on various schools. You are restricted more by readied maneuvers than by known. You are likely to not change your set day by day.

-

Diamond mind is worth investing in for three major groups of maneuvers.

First, there is the save replacement counters. These replace your saves (1/2HD+stat) with a skill check (HD+3+con). The willsave version is worth keeping readied from about level 3-4 forward. The fort save version comes online at 5th level and is worth running with from that point. I wouldn't bother with the reflex version. You already add your int to reflex and a failed reflex save is almost always just damage. It becomes really hard to stick you with effects. Remember, you can only do one counter a round and it eats your swift action (all immediate actions do). This means any round you replace a save you cannot do so again for any other save and cannot regain the ability until you recover maneuvers. You cannot recover maneuvers until you attack or full attack and burn a swift action. In practice this means you resist the first will and fort save each combat and any that happen between combats.

The rest of the really nice stuff comes in the vein of "Attack, roll a concentration check for damage" and "Make attack as a touch attack" These are really nice, but don't require any kind of investment to pick up. Take as desired.

There is also some good mobility stuff here like bounding assault. Pearl of Black (3rd level stance, but you can pick it up at 10th level (ick)) doubt is a great stance if you want to be untouchable and your DM likes to throw massive groups at you. +2 AC for each attack that misses you in a round.

-

Iron heart is all about swashing and buckling. You can attack multiple targets and otherwise be a cool swordsman. Some cool stuff is the set of strikes that swing at multiple enemies around you and even a standard action attack at everything you can reach. Wall of Blades is a counter that comes online at 3rd level and allows you to basically deflect any single attack. This works great for avoiding attacks you know are dangerous and or deflecting spells that don't offer a save (enervation).

There are some wonky things here. Ask your DM how he wants to rule Iron Heart Surge (select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds. That effect ends immediately.). I suggest you stick to things expressly listed to have a specific durations (rounds per CL, min/CL, ect). Otherwise you risk IHSing the sun out or some other sillyness. Really worth it though, as you can reverse a lot of stuff. You still need to be able to take actions though, so no breaking stuns or such.

-

Stone dragon is a great school. It happens to be great purely because of one thing. Mountain hammer. Also known as "Warblade's Lockpick" and "I sunder anything!" It's a strike that deals a little extra damage. That's nice and always handy regardless of the situation. What it's real value is though, is that it ignores all DR and hardness. ALL DR AND HARDNESS. You can smash anything with anything. Break out of an adimantium cage with your bear hands. Keep this readied and upgrade to the latest version as it becomes available.

Otherwise it is hobbled by restrictions not on any other school. You cannot move and maintain the stances and you cannot use the strikes if you are not standing on the ground. This means it becomes fairly useless in later levels when everything flies.

-

Tiger claw is all about leaping around and hitting like a hos. You hurt your defense though, and it works best with TWFing, so I would stick to Diamond mind and use the tornado strikes to hit multiple targets. This does not seem to be what you want to do.

-

White raven is really, really good if your party has lots of other melee characters who like to charge. Otherwise, it's meh. Check it for gems and pass.


TLDR

I would focus on Diamond Mind with a spattering of Iron Heart and stone dragon (mountain HAMMER!!!!). By tenth level you have 5 readied maneuvers. In practice you want to have a balance of things readied. I like to make a spread of 1 "Hits lots of stuff", 1 "Hits hard", 2 defensive counters and one extra. The extra should be ether something utility or something mobility. There are other balances you can strike, but I find this works well. As you level add in whatever you find yourself lacking.

I find that you end up doing your multi-attack the first round, followed by your big hit, then a full attack to recover your maneuvers. For defensive stuff pick 2 out of 4; AC, Reflex saves, Fort Saves, and Will Saves. In practice this is AC and Will saves as your touch ac and willsave are your biggest weaknesses.

At level 10 I would plan for these maneuvers

Insightful strike - Big hit damage, twice a concentration check as damage (2d20+26+2xCon at 10th level, and that's not with a skill boosting item like a vest of steady spellcasting)
- Elder Mountain Hammer is also an option you should have known to deal with DR and hardness, if they arise.
Mithral Tornado - Nice multi attack to deal with mooks
Moment of Perfect Mind - Don't get dominated
Wall of Blades - Avoid touch spells, weakened by power attack as the attack penalty sticks
Iron Heart Endurance - Heal 2x your HD in damage. It means you always have at least half your large pool of HP left.

At 2nd level focus on 1 defensive ability and the two direct attacks (you will have to select lesser versions), but you should be fine.

Remember you can change your maneuvers readied in 5 minutes.

For gear, you want A- magic weapon, Str boost, Con boost, Dex boost, +saves, and flight as soon as possible.

Hope this helps to give you some direction.

[Willie the Duck]

Hope this helps to give you some direction.

It does. Thank you.

To everyone again, if the DM nixes ToB, what other ideas should I think about, given the limitations I've described?

[Rubik]

It does. Thank you.

To everyone again, if the DM nixes ToB, what other ideas should I think about, given the limitations I've described?Just a regular tripping psychic warrior could do, as could a cleric who uses Enlarge Person to do the same, or a higher Str druid with reach that changes to ape forms to wield reach weapon later on.

[Willie the Duck]

If the DM were to nix ToB, I can't imagine him not nixing psionics.

[stanprollyright]

I suggest the A-Game Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?457144-Repost-A-Game-Paladin-20-Bardic-Music-Paladin-Build). If that's out, Warblade is good and hard to mess up, or you can always go with a standard AoO tripping/lockdown build (Lion Spirit Totem Wolf Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2/Fighter X)

Could also go Imperious Command/Intimidating Rage/Zhentarim Fighter with that build, or be an Ubercharger with Shock Trooper. Basically, it's between AoO/tripping/lockdown, demoralizing, and charging - pick 2.

With your stats, the A-game Paladin would work really nicely as well, even without the Illumian tricks. So be a human and enjoy an extra feat and skill points.

[Acanous]

If you read nothing else about melee characters, read this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians)
It's everything you are asking for, and an entertaining read besides. Sources are cited and you can cook up anything.

[Flickerdart]

A nice simple build is something like Barbarian 4/Sorcerer 1/Red Dragon Disciple 9/Horizon Walker 6 (in whatever order you want) for the following goodies:

Completely Core, so obviously it's 100% balanced
+16 BAB, so you get all the attacks you need
Enlarge Person that you can cast yourself, lasting for a few minutes so you can pre-buff
Can use sorcerer wands, and have lots of low-level sorcerer slots for much of your career so you can contribute out of battle
Claws and bite are fun to have - never be caught without weapons, and kick butt inside a grapple!
Loads of stat boosts - +8 STR, +6 CON, almost as good as max level barbarian rage but some of your bonuses are on all day long
Neat stuff like blindsense, dimension door every 1d4 rounds, Ex flight, immunity to fatigue from your rage

[Rubik]

A nice simple build is something like Barbarian 4/Sorcerer 1/Red Dragon Disciple 9/Horizon Walker 6 (in whatever order you want) for the following goodies:

Completely Core, so obviously it's 100% balanced
+16 BAB, so you get all the attacks you need
Enlarge Person that you can cast yourself, lasting for a few minutes so you can pre-buff
Can use sorcerer wands, and have lots of low-level sorcerer slots for much of your career so you can contribute out of battle
Claws and bite are fun to have - never be caught without weapons, and kick butt inside a grapple!
Loads of stat boosts - +8 STR, +6 CON, almost as good as max level barbarian rage but some of your bonuses are on all day long
Neat stuff like blindsense, dimension door every 1d4 rounds, Ex flight, immunity to fatigue from your rage
"All those different classes! That looks like min-maxing to me!"

Wings or not, I don't think that'd fly.

[stanprollyright]

If you read nothing else about melee characters, read this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians)
It's everything you are asking for, and an entertaining read besides. Sources are cited and you can cook up anything.

I thought the title was "Being Bane: A Guide to Cracking Small Men"



Completely Core, so obviously it's 100% balanced


*giggle*

[Flickerdart]

"All those different classes! That looks like min-maxing to me!"

Wings or not, I don't think that'd fly.
Meh, if reducing the number of classes is an issue, barbarian 9/sorcerer 1/DD 10 works fine. Or barbarian 4/sorcerer 6/DD 10, to get 3rd level spells. Or barbarian 5/sorcerer 5/DD 10, if multiclass penalties exist in this mad, mad world.

[Willie the Duck]

I'm sure it does. I'll think about it. Nice to see someone suggest a non-frenzied berserker barbarian build.

[Willie the Duck]

Could also go Imperious Command/Intimidating Rage/Zhentarim Fighter with that build, or be an Ubercharger with Shock Trooper. Basically, it's between AoO/tripping/lockdown, demoralizing, and charging - pick 2.

With your stats, the A-game Paladin would work really nicely as well, even without the Illumian tricks. So be a human and enjoy an extra feat and skill points.

I am not understanding the A-game paladin. How does it get bardic inspiration?

[Fouredged Sword]

I am not understanding the A-game paladin. How does it get bardic inspiration?

The feat Smite to Song allows you to burn a smite evil use to activate inspire courage as a bard of your paladin level. Basically you can smite or sing from the same pool of uses.

[Willie the Duck]

If you read nothing else about melee characters, read /url/
It's everything you are asking for, and an entertaining read besides. Sources are cited and you can cook up anything.

It is definitely a good read. Two of my potential ideas for a character (Fist of the Forest/Bear Warrior build, which is awesome but I'd be competing with the druid and his animal companion for magic items that I could use in bear form; and Runescarred Berserker, which would cost a lot of feats, but give me needed magic that the mystic theurge might not be competent to drop on me like other people who play warriors might expect).

Right now, my choices include:
Warblade, starting with Fouredge's ideas - see if DM goes for it.
This A list paladin once I look up all these necessary feats and such to see if I think the DM will go for it).
Runescarred Berserker
Bear Warrior

Some of the other ideas are great (well, most of them are, but have referenced stuff that isn't going to fly), but I'm ruling out for other reasons. Psionics... well, if I'm going to push for some 'added on' thing to the game, it would be ToB or incarnum, because I haven't tried them before. The dragon disciple... the guy playing the druid (who has had a rocky introduction to 3e) played a barbarian/sorcerer/Eldritch Knight and well... died 6 times to everyone else's 0-1. So I don't think following in his footsteps and then doing it better would be a nice thing to do.

[Rubik]

You could always go for a bardblade. A bard/warblade works well together, buffing yourself and your allies while commanding your party using White Raven maneuvers and harkening back to a time when leaders cried out orders across the battlefield, wearing nothing but warpaint and a crazed, frothing grin. You could also go for a few levels in the warrior skald PrC from Races of Faerun to get a lot more bardic music, and since it's "warrior" skald, it might be easier to convince your DM that it's a better fit for a warblade. Unfortunately, warrior skalds don't get that yummy bardic spellcasting for extra inspire courage boosting.

[Willie the Duck]

Certainly an option, but until Saturday comes around and I find out, what else is there? Or can anyone recommend builds for the ideas I've oked? (bear warrior, runescarred)?

What is people's opinion about a warrior type dipping into monk for good skills, saves, and feats, but sacrificing bab (and the usual good feat/bab synergy that full bab has, such as shock trooper being available at bab 6 and getting a feat at level 6)

[Fouredged Sword]

Monk 2 / Fighter 6 is a soild build for a shocktrooper. Look up the focused attack monk ACF as well as the overwhelming assault monk feat substitutions. The first lets you make a full round action attack that just flat deals double damage. You can wield a quarterstaff two handed and power attack (and you get power attack without prereqs at level 1). Evasion is really nice.

I would consider a slightly different route though. Swashbuckler will let you add your int score to damage for all attacks with light weapons. Kung-Fu genius will let you switch the monk Wis to AC to Int to AC. There is a feat that stacks rogue and swashbuckler levels for advancing sneak attack. There is an ACF that lets you trade a redundant evasion for the ability to send Ray attacks that miss back at the sender.

Monk 2 / Rogue 3 / Swashbucker 15 is a perfectly valid build, 18bab, evasion, int to AC, int to damage, good saves and skill points and the ability to do double damage on single attacks though focused attack.

[Willie the Duck]

Yeah, ACFs might be a hard sell (replacement monk feats less so). I like the idea though.

I was dinking around with mixing monk2 (overwhelming assault monk) with barb2, and one more level of either or of fighter to qualify for Fist of the Forest, and eventually Bear Warrior. Not having 6 bab at level 6 (when you get a feat) makes shock trooper hard to pull together, and the difference in bab between a great sword wielding half-orc barbarian 2 and a flurry-of-blows fist wielding human monk1 barbarian 1 (some alignment restrictions would have to be lightened for this to make any sense) was pretty amazing. I definitely think monks should have been a full bab class.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would avoid monk then. You will get better AC from a mitheril brestplate and flurry of blows isn't very useful at the end of the day. Better to take Rogue 2 if you want evasion. Better skill points and a sneak attack die to qualify you for the enchantments that boost sneak attack/craven (a feat that grants flat bonus damage to sneak attacks).

And unless your DM is allowing alignment shifts, you can't take Barb and monk. One is lawful only, the other non-lawful.

[Willie the Duck]

It would require an alignment variation (the overwhelming assault variation being the justification). I had mentioned that. The 3 good saves (for what otherwise is a Fort, Fort, and more Fort build), along with 3 feats towards Fist of the Forest and Shock Trooper in 2 levels, along with good skills (if not good skill points) were/are tempting though. It's sometimes hard to give up on what-might-have-beens. :-P