Cunning Caster and Psychic Characters

[Triskavanski]

Does cunning caster work with Psychic characters? If so, how would it work? like do you take any negatives beyond occasionally the obvious spell effect one?

I'm thinking of going Mesmerist and taking this to really mess with people.

[Psyren]

Yes, they can use it; they effectively get to ignore the verbal and somatic penalties, but Psychic Magic can still have material components and foci, so depending on the spell you may take those two negatives as well. (Eschew Materials of course can help with the former.)

Basically it's easier for psychic casters to hide their spellcasting than it is for normal spellcasters, as you'd expect.

Note also that there is a Simple Q&A thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414719-Simple-Q-amp-A-by-RAW-for-Pathfinder-4) stickied at the top of the subforum for straightforward questions like these :smallsmile:

[Slithery D]

Yes, they can use it; they effectively get to ignore the verbal and somatic penalties, but Psychic Magic can still have material components and foci, so depending on the spell you may take those two negatives as well. (Eschew Materials of course can help with the former.)

(Emphasis added.)

Nope. Psychics only have expensive material components, and Eschew Materials only works on components worth less than 1 gp.

Eschew Materials, like Intuitive Spell, is a useless feat for psychic casters to learn that is already covered or improved upon by the existing psychic spell casting rules.

[Psyren]

You're correct about Eschew, my bad, but why is Intuitive Spell useless? If you're likely to need to cast defensively or avoid a nasty concentration check, and need the centering move action for something else, it seems like might be useful.

[Slithery D]

You're correct about Eschew, my bad, but why is Intuitive Spell useless? If you're likely to need to cast defensively or avoid a nasty concentration check, and need the centering move action for something else, it seems like might be useful.

Using Intuitive Spell is a full round action (you're a spontaneous caster), so you don't have a centering move action for something else. It literally does nothing for you that you can't do without the feat. It's actually worse, since it makes you more vulnerable to interruption if you get hit during casting.

It can make sense as a rod, or as a Mimic Metamagic phrenic amplification choice (which don't extend casting time), but never as a feat. Unless you use that feat/trait that lets you cast one and only one metamagicked spell without increasing its casting time, but, uh, no.

Edit: CTP's Psychic guide agrees, rates it red:
Intuitive Spell (OA): You can negate the downside of thought components with a move action; using this feat will take a full round action. Thus, it’s basically useless.

[Triskavanski]

Oh wow. That is totally something I didn't even think of there with that metamagic.

[Psyren]

Using Intuitive Spell is a full round action (you're a spontaneous caster), so you don't have a centering move action for something else. It literally does nothing for you that you can't do without the feat. It's actually worse, since it makes you more vulnerable to interruption if you get hit during casting.

There are ways to remove the casting time increase (e.g. Spontaneous Metafocus or Sacred Geometry), and if it wasn't a feat in the first place there would be no rod for it either. Also, a Quickened Intuitive Spell is still a swift action, whereas centering yourself and quickening would still cost you that extra move action; while you generally don't have to cast defensively while quickening, it could still matter if you're subject to an ongoing effect or ongoing damage.

I don't think it's the best metamagic feat out there by any means, but useless is a bit harsh. Nearly any feat can save your bacon in the right circumstance, even Toughness or Iron Will.

[Triskavanski]

He said Useless to learn, not useless to exist. Like a lot of spells that are very specific that is useless pretty much to learn due to being overly restrictive or otherwise unable to be used in most conditions, but having a wand, potion or scroll for them makes the spells useful.


Like a spell that could tell you if something is a spoon or knife. If you get it wrong you die. But very rarely is it difficult to play knifey spoony, but every once in a while it comes up.

[Psyren]

He said Useless to learn, not useless to exist.

Fair point, I can agree with that. My main point though is that that's how the rods work, they give you access to the feat, so there does have to be a feat, even if there's little point picking it up normally.