How Do I Reload Firearms Quickly?

[Lord Lemming]

I don't know if I'm missing something terribly obvious, but when I look at the Gunslinger class from Pathfinder it seems extremely weak because of the nature of the weapon. Taking the Rapid Reload feat for a firearm still means that it takes a move action to reload a one-handed firearm, or a standard action to reload a two-handed firearm. Using Alchemical Cartridges reduces these actions to free actions and move actions respectively, but they're expensive, increase the misfire value of the firearm, and still don't allow you to take a full attack with two-handed firearms. However, when I found a guide to the Gunslinger, it talked as though the problem of getting full attacks had been solved by some obvious method; but failed to specify what that method was. Maddening.

So, how do we go about getting full attacks with firearms in general?

How do we go about getting full attacks with two-handed firearms in particular?

Can classes other than Gunslinger (such as the Musketeer archetype for the Swashbuckler) gain access to these methods?

Thanks in advance. :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

I don't know if I'm missing something terribly obvious, but when I look at the Gunslinger class from Pathfinder it seems extremely weak because of the nature of the weapon.

Yes, Gunslinger is weak (T5.)


So, how do we go about getting full attacks with firearms in general?
...
How do we go about getting full attacks with two-handed firearms in particular?


Lightning Reload deed at 11 is the standard way for both.



Can classes other than Gunslinger (such as the Musketeer archetype for the Swashbuckler) gain access to these methods?

If the class in question gets deeds they can use the above. There is also magic - some gun-users are spellcasters (black powder inquisitor, spellslinger etc.)

[Âmesang]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not too familiar with any kind of gun-user in Pathfinder (Hell, I haven't played the game in ages), however Dragon Magazine #321, July 2004, p.36 does have an option for breachloading firearms, turning the basic ones in the 3rd Edition DUNGEON MASTER'S Guide from standard-action reloads to move-action reloads for an extra 50 gp (and thus, if Rapid Reload is applied, move action to free action?).

I know it may not be entirely the same, but perhaps it could help? Maybe? It just comes to mind 'cause awhile back I wrote down some notes for a FORGOTTEN REALMS® gnome urban ranger "cowboy" who'd be crafting his own rifles (just have to rework Many Shot to be used with double/triple/quadruple?-barreled rifles).

[Rakoa]

If using a one-handed Firearm, the Rapid Reload feat combined with Alchemical Cartridges makes reloading a free action. This is not as expensive as you think, because the Gunsmithing feat lets them be created for a pittance. Combine this with the Musket Master archetype and you can free reload Muskets at level 3 (as long as you have grit left).

Of course, at 7th level, Deadshot lets you effectively Fullattack anyway without the need for any funny business, other than the requisite grit.

[Swaoeaeieu]

dreamscarred press has the gunsmoke mystic. who, as long as you use paper cartrigdes, has free action reload even with two handed firearms.
you also get cool manouvers and a tiny bit of pseudo magic.

but then again its 3rd party and some dont allow that

[phlidwsn]

For two-handed firearms, you want the Musket Master archtype:

Fast Musket (Ex) At 3rd level, as long as the musket master has 1 grit point, she can reload any two-handed firearm as if it were a one-handed firearm.

Add on rapid reload and alchemical cartridges just the same as a one-handed firearm, and away you go.

[Zanos]

Yes, Gunslinger is weak (T5.)
The Gunslinger isn't weak, it's not versatile. All it does is damage, but it happens to be very good at large amounts of consistent damage at range. A well built gunslinger can 1-round almost anything around its CR without particularly hefty amounts of cheese, and is guaranteed to hit unless specific precautions have been taken against you.

Of course, at 7th level, Deadshot lets you effectively Fullattack anyway without the need for any funny business, other than the requisite grit.
Deadshot is pretty terrible unless you have a lot of damage bonuses that only apply to a single attack. Between deadly aim and dex to damage, you're losing out on a lot of damage from deadshot. It might increase your damage against high DR targets before you get clustered shots, though.

[Psyren]

The Gunslinger isn't weak, it's not versatile. All it does is damage, but it happens to be very good at large amounts of consistent damage at range. A well built gunslinger can 1-round almost anything around its CR without particularly hefty amounts of cheese, and is guaranteed to hit unless specific precautions have been taken against you.

That's actually what I meant by weak. In combat it can be quite strong when it comes to dealing damage, as can a Fighter, but they are weak relative to other classes that can be good at a variety of other things (including a variety of combats.)

It was shorthand basically and referred to "relative to other classes" rather than "relative to CR-appropriate monsters while using level-appropriate wealth" (i.e. the objective measure.)

[Triskavanski]

Deadshot is pretty terrible unless you have a lot of damage bonuses that only apply to a single attack. Between deadly aim and dex to damage, you're losing out on a lot of damage from deadshot. It might increase your damage against high DR targets before you get clustered shots, though.

Deadshot is pretty wonderful for a mysterious stranger who's got a pocket mage making bullets with peoples names on it.

[Zanos]

Deadshot is pretty wonderful for a mysterious stranger who's got a pocket mage making bullets with peoples names on it.
Deadshot is only going to increase the weapons base damage die. You'd probably do more damage using the named bullet in a full attack.

[Triskavanski]

Deadshot is only going to increase the weapons base damage die. You'd probably do more damage using the named bullet in a full attack.

Not true.

Mysterious Stranger Deed

Focused Aim (Ex): At 1st level, as a swift action, the mysterious stranger can spend 1 grit point to gain a bonus on all firearm damage rolls equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) with all firearm attacks she makes until the end of her turn. At 7th level, when she uses the dead shot deed, she multiplies this bonus by the number of hits she made while rolling the Dead Shot attack. This deed replaces the quick clear deed.

So Each hit you make, increases the damage by your CHA damage as well.

Named Bullet

You imbue the target with deadly accuracy against a selected creature type (and subtype for humanoids or outsiders) or a specific creature you know and can name. When used against the selected creature, the ammunition never misfires and is unaffected by concealment (but not total concealment), and at a range of 30 feet or less, the attack targets the selected creature’s touch AC. When the target hits the selected creature, you must overcome that creature’s spell resistance, or this spell has no effect. A normal hit scored using the target against the selected creature is considered to be a critical threat and deals 1 extra point of damage per caster level (maximum 20), which is not multiplied on a critical hit. A natural critical hit deals the same extra damage, but that damage is multiplied due to the critical.


Assuming that all the damage outside of the 1d12 for a musket and Cha isn't included in the primary area of Dead shot..

That would be ((Hits*(1d12+cha))+enhancement bonus+dex+misc mods)*4<Provided You confirm it>+Caster level+Misc Mods

There are two ways that a DM could rule the bullet's Critical Effect too.

1) Each hit is a Critical Threat, thus lowering your confirmation penalty.
2) Only the first hit is the critical threat, meaning you'd have to roll a real crit with the other bullets to lower it.

Then A) If any of the attacks crit, it counts as the full attack critting
B) if only the first attack Crits, it counts as the full attack Critting.

So, assuming we get an avergish roll, and hit 2 times, 16 cha, 16 dex +2 musket we're looking at something like (12+6+3+2)*4+7 = 99 dmg. This is assuming really no other modifiers really. Though, Other characters are probably suppose to be doing 2x or 3x that amount of damage by level 7.