optimize this feat: Battle Mage Tactics (MMV)

[daremetoidareyo]

I'm designing a party to generally befoul my PCs. And I stumbled across this feat. It reads:

Prerequisite: Arcane caster level 3rd, Spellcraft 6 Ranks,
Benefit:Each time you cast a spell that requires a target to make a saving throw, that target gains a battle magic tactics token after the spell resolves. A creature gains a token whether the creature succeeds or fails, but a creature that avoids a spell through spell esistance does not gain a token. Each battle magic token imposes a cumulative -1 Penalty on saving throws against the spells of spellcasters who have this feat. At the end of the round all battle magic tactics tokens dissapear.

There are a few fronts to optimize on:

a.) number of opponents effected.

1.) spell choice

2.) metamagic choice

3.) Class feature choice
b.) number of times a single opponent is affected by the same spell (multiple saves per casting) a single casting.

1.) spell choice

2.) metamagic choice

3.) Class feature choice
c.) Number of entities who are considered allies who have this feat

1.) team composition, summons, familiars, mounts, enemies, cohorts etc

2.) Ways to get others to get/technically have this feat

[Endarire]

This seems... complicated. (There's a No Save Just Suck List (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9510.0) for spells, powers, and abilities that just hit and debilitate.)

[daremetoidareyo]

Thanks, I'll add that to the rolodex of useful things.

But Shirley, there's a way to pimp this out of control?

[gawwy]

EDIT: nvm reread it.

[MisterKaws]

Mage army with ocular twin heightened mass something, preferably something nasty...

[Flickerdart]

...number of times a single opponent is affected by the same spell (multiple saves per casting)...
Doesn't help - the text is "each time you cast a spell" and not "each time an enemy rolls a save against your spell." The only way to gain more tokens is to cast more spells.

So basically you want lots of dudes with this feat to hit everyone in the party at once, as often as possible:
Quicken: Obvious choice, cast a spell as a swift action.
Swift action spells: Like Quicken, only cheaper. Kaupaer's Quickblast (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a) is an excellent one to use for this, owing to its low level, meaning that mooks can cast this a lot to soften up all the PCs for the big boss's "real" spells.
Multivoice: This weird feat from Savage Species lets a two-headed creature cast two spells per round, as a full-round action. Use this, love this. It's an expensive feat, so maybe just put it on the main boss.
Extra standard actions: Swiftblade, Chronotyryn or Choker form, celerity, time stop, 3.0 haste, Factotum - more actions means more spells!
Extra swift actions: Use and abuse Ruby Knight Vindicator.

You also want to avoid losing to SR, but there are no spells that offer no SR but a saving throw. So use things like true casting and assay resistance.

[WhamBamSam]

I don't think making an individual target make multiple saves works, as the feat says "each time you cast a spell that requires a target to make a saving throw," and not "each time a target is required to make a saving throw by a spell you cast" or something to that effect. Repeat Spell specifically recasts the spell at the beginning of your next turn, so you can definitely apply multiple tokens that way, though I'd consider Twin Spell to be a grey area as worded. EDIT: Flickerdart beat me too it, though Repeat Spell does seem to be a thing that can be added to his list.

The fact that it specifies a "target" probably also rules out area spells. So you're probably using spells that specify multiple targets or applying Chain Spell to single target spells if you want to hit multiple targets.

[daremetoidareyo]

Ok.The aspect that I didn't notice until my post was that the tokens only accrue each round, so you start fresh with tokens on the subsequent turns. This is not very good.

Delay spell is an option to sych up all of the spells on the same round, 5 rounds later. So the utility of this spell is not for combat, but for missions where they have snuck up on the enemy and the enemy is unaware of their presence. This invalidates the feat for my immediate needs, but does change my opinion of the feat from being totally worthless to kinda worthless. You can sneak into a situation, cast 4 silenced, stilled, delayed spells at the target, then on the final round that they go off, ready an action to cast the final spell in the round, thus granting the badguy a -4 on his save.

Maybe on a druid who can awaken a bunch of tiny animals and train them in druidry and insist on them taking this feat as their level 1 feat. It would best be combined with one of those domain powers or feats that allows rebuking/commanding of creatures of that type, so that they are totally under his control. All of them cast thunderhead or rot of ages for all of their spell slots. This serpent corps help to drive down the saves of the enemy by 1 per awakened creature casting. There are much better things to do with an army of awakened tiny viper druid 1's though. But, if you had like 16 of them, and you readied an action to go after all of they did in the round, you would be able to hit the opponent at a -16 to their save. If he has an ally on his team who is also a spell caster with this feat, you should be able to put a significant hurting on them.

The question is, however, do area damage spells count? It says "a target" not "the target." So the feat either applies to all targets in range of the spell, or it applies to the single entity that you target.

[Eldariel]

It's rather fringe. If you have a bunch of level 1 caster followers, you can have 'em take this feat and in some open combat area, have 'em all spend a turn casting anything that allows a save, such as Grease (it shouldn't matter whether the spell actually affects the opponent or not; tho is anyone ever required to make a saving throw with the option of foregoing them? I think we can work with the RAI here tho) and follow it up with the main caster's spell on some tough target. Spell Resistance is a problem in such a case tho; most casters and big monsters can have one should they want to, and level 1 casters have trouble penetrating even with Assay Resistance. It is a good way to save-or-die tough guys if you're certain you have one they're not immune to (e.g. if you have some means to penetrate immunity).

The other way to use it is to of course enter an infinite action loop; it's a way to essentially make all your spells have arbitrarily high save DCs so unless enemies are immune, you'll penetrate their saves eventually and thus get some options that might not otherwise be available (such as the ever-useful Mindrape).

[mabriss lethe]

I honestly think a hexblade's dark companion is an all around better way to do this. Also, give your mooks the bind vestige feat chain for Aura of Despair and trick them out with nets, lassos, and sandblasters loaded with poisoned ammo. It'll be a lot more effective and easier to deploy than that feat.

[daremetoidareyo]

I honestly think a hexblade's dark companion is an all around better way to do this. Also, give your mooks the bind vestige feat chain for Aura of Despair and trick them out with nets, lassos, and sandblasters loaded with poisoned ammo. It'll be a lot more effective and easier to deploy than that feat.

Agreed that this is a terrible feat. I'm just curious where it might excel. Item saving throws maybe?