Dark Schnieder

[Aleolus]

As a thought exercise, I thought it would be interesting to see what the most accurate build of the antihero Dark Schneider from the anime/manga series Bastard!! would be. Only rules are that the build must reasonably match what the character can do in the series, and only use published materials that are not world specific (so no Eberron, FR or Dragonlance)

[Segev]

The hardest abilities to model are his constant get-out-of-death-free cards. For the most part, he's a very high-level fire mage with extra specializations in fire. I'd build him as a Sorcerer with a lot of focus on fire spells, possibly taking PrCs that enhance that still further.

He's a smarmy Bastard!!, so he probably has skills in Diplomacy and Bluff, and DEFINITELY in Intimidate.

He probably has Craft Contingent Spell and uses it with Limited Wish to create contingent spells that will enable him to escape death. He has a few illusions, though not many.

He also has a few stunts which seem to be one-offs with no explanation for how the heck he did it, like when he "stuffs himself inside his own arm and cuts it off" so that he can't be stabbed to death. Those are likely manifestations of Limited Wish or something similar.

[Triskavanski]

The problem with "Not world specific" type of stuff, is often they aren't actually world specific.

Anycase, the first thing is he is capable of killing a beholder with a spell, that he can only use once per day, and said spell was wasted.

Second thing, he can defeat a named Fire Elemental by getting naked and using more fire than the world can handle. (Shielding his ally from the damage as well)

He does not know cold spells, signifying he's a spontaneous caster of some kind and that he doesn't know cold spells.

He can resurrect himself from the dead.



I'd say the character is Epic or mythic at the very least, if not both. He has the ability to cast a contingency spell to revive

[Segev]

Hm, actually, you're right. He did have a "one and done" use of a spell. So he's a wizard, not a sorcerer. That said, he's clearly a wizard who never bothered to learn cold spells. It's not that he CAN'T, it's that he HASN'T. That's doable with spell selection. If he has feats and other abilities invested in making fire really great, he might disdain cold spells because he just can't do as much with them.

[Triskavanski]

He could be a epic level sorcerer, who's got an epic level spell he can only use once. Beholders are pretty tough to take down. (Even if it was one without anti-magic cone or something.)

[Aleolus]

The problem with "Not world specific" type of stuff, is often they aren't actually world specific.

The reason I stated that was largely to avoid any Incantatrix shennanigans, honestly

[Segev]

The reason I stated that was largely to avoid any Incantatrix shennanigans, honestly

I'll be honest, if you're avoiding shenanigans, you're kind-of outside Dark Schneider's whole schtick. He's a walking shenanigan factory.

[Aleolus]

I'll be honest, if you're avoiding shenanigans, you're kind-of outside Dark Schneider's whole schtick. He's a walking shenanigan factory.

I didn't say i was avoiding shenanigans , I said I was trying to avoid incantatrix shenanigans. Big difference

[Red Fel]

I'll be honest, if you're avoiding shenanigans, you're kind-of outside Dark Schneider's whole schtick. He's a walking shenanigan factory.

Muchly this. Ignoring his "avoid death" tricks, though, I'd go with a Wizard with Still Spell (he uses chants, but not generally somatic components) and Searing Spell (remember how he beat Efreet?). I'd also grab something that gives him martial weapon proficiency - Elf is an option - because he's not bad with that sword of his. I'd probably go Evocation specialist, simply because he makes the things that boom.

And give him the Epic Spellcasting feat, because seriously. Seriously.

[Segev]

I dunno. I think he uses somatic components as much as any anime mage. Mostly as shaping/directing type gestures, but they're definitely there. The only times I've seen him incant without obvious gesture tend to be special occasions when we either can't see him or he's currently dead (probably for tax purposes). (In particular, the time he casts Megadeth to simultaneously level a fortress, resurrect himself and all the minions he killed in the fight leading up to it, and restore all the lopped off arms he and his buddy lost. No gestures there. But then again, I'm not sure wish has a somatic component. And that's effectively what Megadeth seems to be.)

[Zanos]

I dunno. I think he uses somatic components as much as any anime mage. Mostly as shaping/directing type gestures, but they're definitely there. The only times I've seen him incant without obvious gesture tend to be special occasions when we either can't see him or he's currently dead (probably for tax purposes). (In particular, the time he casts Megadeth to simultaneously level a fortress, resurrect himself and all the minions he killed in the fight leading up to it, and restore all the lopped off arms he and his buddy lost. No gestures there. But then again, I'm not sure wish has a somatic component. And that's effectively what Megadeth seems to be.)
What the hell is this manga about?

[Red Fel]

What the hell is this manga about?

The covers of 80s metal bands.

[Aleolus]

The covers of 80s metal bands.

And D&D, he also incorporated D&D to the mix

[Red Fel]

And D&D, he also incorporated D&D to the mix

Yeah. Short version, Bastard!! is a manga about a post-apocalyptic D&D campaign starring a gish hero, where pretty much every location, NPC, and spell is named after a metal band or song.

And that's pretty much all you need to know about it, other than that it is hysterically awesome.

[Triskavanski]

I don't think Bon Jovi is a metal band.

[Red Fel]

I don't think Bon Jovi is a metal band.

No. He is several. It is known.

[Segev]

Fair warning: Bastard!! also has gratuitous nudity, in which it revels. So it's definitely at LEAST R-rated.

[Bronk]

Also... the series is a huge tease. The anime leaves you hanging, so you might think you'd just switch to the manga. The manga is great, you read on and on, then boom! It leaves you hanging even worse! Still worth it though.

[Waddacku]

Also... the series is a huge tease. The anime leaves you hanging, so you might think you'd just switch to the manga. The manga is great, you read on and on, then boom! It leaves you hanging even worse! Still worth it though.

Well, it is still ongoing, so that'd be kinda strange otherwise.

[Bronk]

Well, it is still ongoing, so that'd be kinda strange otherwise.

I see that wikipedia lists it as being an ongoing series, published irregularly, but the story ground to a halt years ago and the most recent installment was back in 2012... and that was a bit that backtracked to a previous bit in the story and didn't go anywhere.

I think for a casual perusal, I'd just go with the OVA, and maybe a few volumes of the manga beyond that.

Edit: Here's a very brief outline of the story, give or take. I've spoilered it, because A: spoilers, but also B: the best parts of the anime/manga other than the cool attacks is the slow reveal of lore.

Before the story, by 400 years or so:
The world ended! It was a lot like our world in that it had lots of sky scrapers and technology, but on the other hand, they had magic, psychic powers, elves and monsters as well. There was a terrible war against a giant kaiju style super monster/god named Anthrasax, which destroyed the world, leaving medieval style kingdoms scattered about the world, surrounded by monsters, and built on the ruins of the old world. (I just realized that this was kinda like Thundar the Barbarian!) Dark Schneider was involved in that fight, and wearing dragon based power armor, he defeated Anthrasax. Somehow, Anthrasax was sealed away, and four seals were distributed amongst four of the remaining kingdoms.

Before the Story, up to 16 years or so ago:
Dark Schneider is an extremely powerful immortal fire mage with a bevy of unknown additional powers and an unreliable memory! He's also bored! Over time, he accumulated followers: Arshes Ne, a powerful but mistreated dark elf child who he raises to be a powerful mage, leader, wielder of a cool weapon he had laying around, and his main squeeze. Gara, a super ninja. Kall-su, a powerful ice mage child that he also raised. Also, Abigail, who was some kind of clerical dude. They roamed around as an adventuring party for a while, then Dark Schneider decided he was bored again, raised an army, appointed his four buds as generals, and set about taking over the world. They almost managed it! In the end, the last kingdom of Metallicana defeated them. A powerful warrior, Lars, battled DS, and when he realized he was losing, summoned the Dragon Armor which also multiplied his power. (Unfortunately it also eats souls that aren't DS, so it sorta killed him and turned what was left of his soul into a baby dragon, who serves as a kind of narrator later on because he knows who everyone is). Lars managed to defeat DS, but not kill him, and the priest Geo bound his soul into the body of a baby boy named Lushe! The four generals scatter, and it's relatively peaceful for a while.

The story starts:
Sixteen or so years later, Geo's daughter Yoko is friends with Lushe! For some reason the four generals are on the move again, taking over the land, but this time with the added motive of finding all the seals and freeing Anthrasax! Metallicana is attacked, Yoko is threatened, and Lushe transforms into DS and saves the day! This happens again and again, until it's mostly DS all the time... and his evil, selfish ways are now tempered for his feelings for Yoko.

They defeat a bunch of monsters, a vampire, a beholder, etc, in no particular order. There's also a princess involved, and it turns out there's only one seal left, and it's inside of her, etc. etc.

They are attacked by and defeat Gara, who joins them. He's still loyal to DS and didn't like where all this was going anyway.

They are attacked by and defeat Arshes Ne, who joins them. It's harder this time, because she was under mental control!

I'm pretty sure (it's been a while) that this is about when the OVA ends, teasing a fight with Kall-su. However, he does eventually fight Kall-su, and he was not just under mental control, but he was infected with a piece of Anthrasax! And, this was done by Abigail! He joins the group too.

So then they fight Abigail, who has been completely taken over by the evil monster/god Anthrasax! They do defeat him eventually though.

It's around this time that there's a discontinuity, and time jumps ahead a few years. This is a great time to stop reading the manga!

After the time jump, there are a bunch of new characters, and it takes a while for DS to show up again in a meaningful way. IIRC, he'd reverted to Lushe because he'd used up so much power. So, now Yoko was leading a band of super powerful knights, and they were facing off against their arch nemesis that would show up every now and then. When DS did come back, he saved the day a few times and converted some of the female bad guys to his side. This can be a fun read too, if you just go with it. In general, these bad guys are also trying to revive Anthrasax.

So, and this part is a bit hazy for me, the bad guys manage to revive Anthrasax, and the story closely aligns with Dragon Ball Z fights. The good guys fight Anthrasax, who beats them for a while, but then they power up and beat it back, then it powers up and wins for a while, then a floating city of ancient techno elves lead by the remnants of the old world who built the Dragon Knight suit (etc etc) use a super weapon to win against Anthrasax for a while.

Then Anthrasax sheds it's skin to reveal that it isn't a monster/god at all, holy mackerel, it's actually an angel! Like, a real angel sent by capital g god (one assumes) because humanity (or possibly earthlings in general?) were found unworthy after all! What? So, angel Anthrasax wins for a while, and beats up DS.

But! Lushe the powerless boy side of DS turns out to be an even more powerful angel, wins against Anthrasax, and revives DS!

But! Anthrasax is sent a multitude of as powerful or even more powerful angels as backup, and they start rampaging around the world!

But! DS is now back, and he leads the super knights and fights back!

But! Then the most powerful angels like Michael and so on all show up!

But, DS can fight them, and gets his Dragon Armor back too! Lars is turned human again, but so what?

Then, it's revealed that all of this is waking up Lucifer! Heaven is space, the most powerful angels are all hot women in spaceships, and hell is the super massive black hole in the center of the galaxy! But, it's also an egg, and it's about to hatch... evil! Maybe an evil galaxy demon dragon of some kind, who knows, but bad... real bad!

So Michael starts fighting DS, but then... opens a portal to hell and punts DS through! Fights happen and things go badly for the good guys, but DS comes back even more powerful and fights Mano-a-hot angelo with her again, although Michael starts through a series of transformations as well! The fight goes back and forth for some time!


That's where it leaves off. After that, there was one volume that backtracked to DS's time in hell, where he fights a bevy of scantily clad super demons, and the story cuts off mid battle. There was lore that is out there in websites that never made it to the story, namely that Lucifer was DS's dad. I'd say the last ten or 15 volumes of the manga was like one Goku vs. Freeza fight (or cell, etc.) except that it was just one never ending fight.

[Azoth]

Let us not forget the time DS bust out three Djinn sealed in his body to simultaneously cast the strongest spells of himself, his disciple (Ice mage guy), his adoptive daughter (thunder empress), and one other mage...can't remember. He in essence dumps the equivalent of 4 9th level spells simultaneously into what is supposed to be a god to kill it.

Dude is a beast at metamagic shenanigans.

[Triskavanski]

DS is kinda like the original One Punch man. Probably cast wish a few times to write in the PHB new feats that were only usable by him.

[Aleolus]

Hmm. Maybe Incantatrix would be the best option for him then...applying craploads of metamagics to already near-epic level spells and all...

[Bronk]

Hmm. Maybe Incantatrix would be the best option for him then...applying craploads of metamagics to already near-epic level spells and all...

Oh, those spells of his are totally epic! The guy's a super fighter and has access to crazy pre-apocalypse magic. He's super tough, can regenerate, and shares his body with another person.

I'm thinking, at the least, a high epic fighter type//sorcerer type gestalt, with paragon, half-fiend, and maybe some psionics thrown in too. I'm not sure how to work in the two full people in one body thing though, since that's not normally a dnd thing.

[Red Fel]

Oh, those spells of his are totally epic! The guy's a super fighter and has access to crazy pre-apocalypse magic. He's super tough, can regenerate, and shares his body with another person.

I'm thinking, at the least, a high epic fighter type//sorcerer type gestalt, with paragon, half-fiend, and maybe some psionics thrown in too. I'm not sure how to work in the two full people in one body thing though, since that's not normally a dnd thing.

It's less "two people in one body," and more Possession + Alternate Form ability. Basically, when Darshe is in control, the form is Darshe; otherwise, it's Lushe.

But yeah. He's definitely a gish, and metamagics the fool out of everything. Epic Spellcasting is a must.

[Bronk]

It's less "two people in one body," and more Possession + Alternate Form ability. Basically, when Darshe is in control, the form is Darshe; otherwise, it's Lushe.

But yeah. He's definitely a gish, and metamagics the fool out of everything. Epic Spellcasting is a must.

I'm away from my mangas, but I could have sworn that when DS was down on the elder elf powered ship, Lushe stepped right out of him and fought by himself, then got killed, and DS later recovered. I'm a bit hazy on that right now.

Oh yeah, definitely epic. Plus, maybe it's as if he's the only one left who can use actual 10+ level spells.

[Segev]

I'm not convinced he's a gish. By level 20, even a straight Wizard is as good with a sword as a Fighter 10, at least in terms of ability to hit and multi-attack.

[Platymus Pus]

Only rules are that the build must reasonably match what the character can do in the series.
Dark Schnieder when in the story, this is an important question.
Because at a certain point in the story he's a bit more than a mere epic character.
He's pretty much a god.
He's going to break quad digits in levels at the very least
At the beginning he's still epic, but it may be manageable.

[Bronk]

I'm not convinced he's a gish. By level 20, even a straight Wizard is as good with a sword as a Fighter 10, at least in terms of ability to hit and multi-attack.

Hmm, I know he did a lot of flying around and fighting in the air in the OVA, but I don't remember if he landed any blows physically. I know he does later on though. Maybe his fighty side could be psychic warrior or something.

[Platymus Pus]

I'm not convinced he's a gish. By level 20, even a straight Wizard is as good with a sword as a Fighter 10, at least in terms of ability to hit and multi-attack.
That's because he's not, his level is just absurdly high.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-baC37z6CZHU/TnNH-ynBP3I/AAAAAAAACnk/cqM4w2q9Wlw/011.jpg?imgmax=3000

[Segev]

That's because he's not, his level is just absurdly high.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-baC37z6CZHU/TnNH-ynBP3I/AAAAAAAACnk/cqM4w2q9Wlw/011.jpg?imgmax=3000

Is that supposed to be Dark Schneider? Looks a bit too pretty-boy, to me.

[Platymus Pus]

Is that supposed to be Dark Schneider? Looks a bit too pretty-boy, to me.

DS is prettier. :smallbiggrin:
It's just along the lines of power DS is at. A level 20 character isn't going to eating supernova'd stars for example. Something DS can do.
Also this.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5Rv9f3kgA0s/TnNfaYFTUsI/AAAAAAAABU4/0DLnGEMeZUg/012.jpg?imgmax=3000

[Bronk]

It's less "two people in one body," and more Possession + Alternate Form ability. Basically, when Darshe is in control, the form is Darshe; otherwise, it's Lushe.

Ah, I checked, and I misremembered:

It turns out the part I was thinking of was partway through volume 15. DS is a messed up torso in the elf/elder ship, while his soul (or maybe eventually his whole body?) is in hell. Lushe (Lucien) astral projects himself from DS (still in hell) and reveals himself to be the angel Lucifer.

Also, in an earlier volume, I found the page where DS takes Kall-su on as his ward, and he says that half of his soul was taken from him long ago, and Kall-su would be his replacement until he finds it.

In my defense, there's a lot of random stuff going on in those volumes! I agree... it would be pretty hard to model DS as anything less than a god after the OVAs.

[Platymus Pus]

Ah, I checked, and I misremembered:

It turns out the part I was thinking of was partway through volume 15. DS is a messed up torso in the elf/elder ship, while his soul (or maybe eventually his whole body?) is in hell. Lushe (Lucien) astral projects himself from DS (still in hell) and reveals himself to be the angel Lucifer.

Also, in an earlier volume, I found the page where DS takes Kall-su on as his ward, and he says that half of his soul was taken from him long ago, and Kall-su would be his replacement until he finds it.

In my defense, there's a lot of random stuff going on in those volumes! I agree... it would be pretty hard to model DS as anything less than a god after the OVAs.
Volumes 21-27 especially.
Can't really stat DS for DnD past a certain point, he's a bit too hardcore for it.
He'd probably take up 20+ pages in one of the core books alone.

[Bronk]

Phew! Caught up! It turns out I had only read Volumes 1-19, available through Vis. I had been buying them as they came out in English. Clearly that was a mistake!


Volumes 21-27 especially.
Can't really stat DS for DnD past a certain point, he's a bit too hardcore for it.
He'd probably take up 20+ pages in one of the core books alone.

After reading the rest of the series, I have to double down on my previous assessment. The parts covered in the OVA are definitely the best.

I'm already a bit hazy on the volume numbers again but look... the story has a number of really weird discontinuities that make the story largely nonsensical past that point. It keeps jumping ahead, going for a few volumes, then ~maybe~ backtracking and filling in the gaps. This happens at least 4 times. In fact, the entirety of what's out there for volume 27 is merely filling in a smidgen of what was skipped in volume 18 or so. The whole thing reads as if the manga-ka just started copying the Goku vs. Freeza battle... for like 20 volumes. And again, it still leaves the story hanging (never fully finished the 'DS in Hell' arc, what B's deal is, if Yoko will get her memories back or if it's even her for sure, where G came from, and what the moon seal is).