The Faux Paw - Kitsune Mesmerist

[Triskavanski]

Working on another idea for a character for a game. This one is a Mesmerist, either a Kitsune or Tiefling

Our party is made of two rogues, the first is an assassin type, the second is more of an investigator(Might go investigator class). We're starting at third level, and I've got 17, 17, 14, 13, 12, 11 for stats.

The Mesmer has a number of things going for it that makes me wanna run one

1) Stare - Non-detectable.
2) Psychic Spells are hard to detect
3) +1/2 class to bluff = Easier to use cunning caster/Unabashed Gall

So I'm probally going to be picking up deceitful/cunning caster

Okay I think I'm going to be going kitsune over tiefling. Talking to the other players, we've come up with some tricks we can do in later levels, where I can shapeshift into a fox (at 5th level) and pretend to be a familiar.

Since Psychic magic doesn't have a verbal/somatic component, this means I can cast my spells still as a fox, and have a good boost to my stealth to not get in the way of the more dedicated stealthers

Using unabashed Gall, I can set up a surprise round for the three of us easily enough (-4 to the bluff check)

At level 7, either taking leadership or Xenolinguist, as I believe I can use that while in fox form to talk to people

[Florian]

Out of curriosity: Are you going to use the Vexing Daredevil archetyp? That should mesh well with your rogue(s).

[Triskavanski]

I don't know.. honestly, I don't think I can give up psychic Inception. Thats like the one thing that made me go "Oh! This class is actually good!" as opposed to the Beguiler in 3.5.

I'm wonder what other things I can trick out my bluff checks with So far I have...

Start a Surprise round by being outrageous.
Make no one the wiser of my tricky spell casting.
Feint as standard action
Make someone believe my lies
Create a diversion to hide.


Of Tricks, since our party is so small and roguey, gonna get the Fearsome Guise and one more, as the Guise would allow us to all disguise when we need to book it. Most of the stuff from the companion book looked kinda pathetic for a mesmer, beyond a few cool spells.



Here is my Sheet http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=644578

[Florian]

A bit unimpressive. Pretty much no offensive or real defensive Abilities.

[Triskavanski]

Suggestions then?

Right now my primary offense is messing with people's minds. Implanting suggestions into them like "Maybe that door is heavy." or "I might die if I try to fight these guys." all the while, never engaging into combat.

Color spray is my kinda go to offensive power right now, though it is on its last legs of its usefuliness.

Most of my first level spells have a DC of 17. (+1 for being enchantment +1 for being mind effecting)

EDIT:

I'm not seeing a whole lot of spells really at first level spells beyond Colorspray that are going to be as useful.

[Florian]

@Tris.

It's the usual problem with turning a 3/4-1/6 Class into a full caster equivalent. It can be done, sure, but normally you want to skip the lower levels, as they're a pain in the ass.
If retraining is an option at your table, delay the whole overly caster focused stuff untill you actually have a broader selection of spells to use it with, else it's dead weight.
Kitsune is a nice selection for the DC bonus, but right now, utilizing Painful Stare, the Bite should be more valuable to you, as should simply be hitting your target, so move Int to Dex and go for Weapon Finesse for the first levels, maybe until you actually gain access to 3rd level spells.
Did your team mate chose Investigator or not? If not, you should also rely more on the support side of things, like Mask Misery as an implanted trick.

But, as a general thought, if you want to go full caster, you'll end up more with shadow enchantment/conjuration/evocation to broaden your repertoir. Kitsune is not the best for this then.

[Triskavanski]

I don't know what they're selecting yet.

The first one is going Waylayer Un-Rogue though. So capitalizing the Surprise round (We don't really need the second trick that much I think to get us to all act in the surprise round. Probably going to drop it for false flanker) This guy is going to also go sniper-ish. He's being a bit of a switch hitten depending on the situation

I don't know and don't think that Retraining is going to be available for us. We've never used it before.

EDIT

A Kitsune might not be the best for this even if I'm able to shapeshift into a tiny fox form? I'd think being a tiny fox form throwing out all kinds of enchantments and the like would be great fun, especially since I'd have some fairly good stealth at that point.

[Arutema]

The main thing I'd question is the spell selection. There's some good stuff to mess with enemies there, but you're missing spells that completely shut down enemies (except color spray). Even the humble daze shuts things down for 1 round, and then there's hideous laughter at first level. Those would both benefit from your racial bonus, while color spray, being an illusion spell, does not.

[Triskavanski]

Well, that is true. Color Spray doesn't get my racial bonus, while the other three do. Last time I tried to have Daze, never fought a single humanoid with less than 4hd.

Hideous Laughter has some issues with it to me, the +4 to saving throws, the inability to affect things of 2 or less int, the two saving throws for it.

Sleep had an HD limit of 4.

Hypnotism is a little to easy to roll bad on its HD count.

Memory Lapse might be useful though, to help set up another surprise round or something.

Confusion, Lesser only works on a single target for one round

Deja Vu might be useful to mess with the targets actions

Demand Offering could be used to disarm targets, particularly before combat (Since in combat it would be harder to use) could also be used to get the keys or other items out of combat.

Murderous Command however might be useful, even if it is for one round.

Mental Block that might actually be the most useful.. no wait.. Divination?


I just don't know which one to pick up that would be useful enough to stay.

[Florian]

@Tris:

As for the tiny fox form: Keep in mind that nearly all your class features are short ranged, from the 30ft. Stare to Touch Treatment. It is a nifty gimick, sure, but one that would work better for an Psychic than for a Mesmerist.

Regarding the spells known, a lot of it will depend on whether you will have to double as the party healer or not. The Mesmerist spell list has most of the relevant curative spells and only lacks the cure line of spells, which wands of CLW will cover. If the Investigator will be on board, them you can share that burden between both of you.
If not, then Babble, Colour Spray, Hideous Laughter, Ill Omen, Ray of Enfeeblement, Vanish.

[Triskavanski]

The Psychic scares me just a little bit, because of how easily mind effecting spells are negated in Pathfinder. Granted its not as bad as 3.5 was though.

And yeah, I'm hoping to be able to get into second level spells asap. That is when the real combat fun happens, like the Babble Spell. Maybe I should take a page of spell knowledge (Or similar like item) and use that for the hideous laughter or one of the other spells with a HD limit.

[Florian]

Why wait? Pack wands of Mirror Image, Touch of Gracelessness, Polypurpose Panacea, CLW and Grease right now and have fun with it. (Again, Weapon Finesse....)

The Psychic works fine with the Phrenic Pool feature. Will of the Dead and Overpowering Mind are key here. If you pick Focused Force and outfit yourself with a Staff of the Apprentice, you are doing fine.

[Triskavanski]

Overpowering Mind? Just seems to increase the DC a little more. Don't get me wrong more is better, but it doesn't seem to do much more than that.

Will of the Dead though is only one kind of immunity. With the Mesmerist I can even bust trough mindblank.

I think it might take some looking into if I went Psychic instead. Probably Rapport or Rebirth, but the loss of skill points could hurt a bit, as well as the reduction to my ability to bluff. (Admittedly though I only bluff like 1/2 character level, but still)

[Florian]

Compare something first:
As an actual melee combatant, a Mesmerist at that level is on equal terms with a non-TWF Rogue. Your Painful Stare is at +2d6 dmg if you trigger it. Sword Cane, Bite and PS is pretty solid dmg and your build doesn't capitalize on it at any level.
If you plan to stick with tiny fox form, that will get even worse because of tiny, so no threatening adjacent squares, having to enter an targets square to engage, thereby provoking an AoO and so on.
At that moment, you pretty much throw away half of your class features to be a very mediocre full caster.

So either rebuild your Mesmerist to capizalize on all class features or switch to a class where you don't actually dump half your class features just to be a tiny fox.

[Triskavanski]

Tiny fox wouldn't be all the time thing. It would be something that would be part of the time, Particularly when not in combat.

I'm probably going to run range initially, until I can afford an agile weapon. If I stay mesmer.

[Florian]

So you take your mighty hand crossbow, enter stare range and engage?

[Triskavanski]

Nah. Mechanically I don't see a good reason to use a hand over a light crossbow. The hand isn't significantly lower in weight, costs more, does less damage and reloads at the same speed. Well, other than a handcrossbow can be used with a sleeve holster.


This of course if I continue to keep going Mesmerist. I do plan on being rather close into the combat (30 feet) as I'd be using bluff to bluff the baddies casting charms that don't start combat (cause no one sees a thing or realizes what is going on) or using outrageous behavior to start combat giving us a surprise round, and giving my more combative allies the ability to use their sneak attack.

Once I can afford an +1 Agile Swordcane, I'll be using that for combat. Would rather not spend character resources that might not be able to recover to get a little bonus to my attack rolls.

Defensively right now, I've got an estimated 17 ac normally, 21 fighting defensively, or 23 in total defense. Might switch out the bold stare for up to level 3 with Disorient to reduce the enemy's Attack rolls, and at level 7 get the immunity buster stare.


If I did go pyschic, something I've never quite understood was wearing armor you were not prof in. If I wore a mythril Chain shirt, there wouldn't be any penalty to it would there?

I think I might just go Psychic, Possibly Rapport. Rebirth is also good though..

https://img.society6.com/cdn/0022/p/8915676_14976069_b.jpg

Perhaps something a Little like that, which is why I like Rapport over Rebirth, but Ideally.. You shouldn't split the party. But if the party did get split up, I'd be able to keep track of both my allies easily enough, monitoring their condition, which couldn't help but make me think of Shiroe.

But Level 9 I'd be able to telepathic stuff anyways.


I just don't know what to do with the loss of skill points. Acobatics (to 3 ranks), bluff, perception, sense motive, umd, spell craft are all neeeded