Best WereSpecies?

[WanderinCourier]

So we're playing a rather broken Mythic Pathfinder Campaign. Most of the other players have rather awesome subtypes or species (for example we have a vampire, and another character who is half dragon).

I got asked if wanted to be anything more exciting/power than a normal drow cleric. Nothing immediately came to mind except a lycanthope of some kind. Now I'm wanting it to be realistic so it would have to be something a drow would encounter.

If y'all have any suggestions it would be tremendously helpfull.

[Dusk Raven]

Well, assuming you go on the surface at all, pretty much any animal will likely be encountered by a drow. Otherwise, with subterranean animals, that leaves you with... dire bats, most likely. Which would still be cool, but if you want something different, I'd suggest combing the Bestiary for the most badass dire animal you can find, or otherwise find one you like. Preferably one whose arbitrary alignment as a therianthrope is one you want to play.

[WanderinCourier]

Now I dont have the books to read myself yet but a friend is letting me borrow his tomorrow, but is there any limit to what can be made into such a creature? What i mean online i see alot of werewolf werebear, and such all mammals... So does it have to be a mammal or is there some other limit to what can make it?

[gooddragon1]

Except for the fact that they're lawful good instead of neutral good, werebear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm#werebear) is a very powerful combatant.

+16 STR and a size category are very nice for melee. +2 DEX and +8 CON don't hurt either.


Now I dont have the books to read myself yet but a friend is letting me borrow his tomorrow, but is there any limit to what can be made into such a creature? What i mean online i see alot of werewolf werebear, and such all mammals... So does it have to be a mammal or is there some other limit to what can make it?


Creating A Lycanthrope

"Lycanthrope" is a template that can be added to any humanoid or giant (referred to hereafter as the base creature). The lycanthrope template can be inherited (for natural lycanthropes) or acquired (for afflicted lycanthropes). Becoming a lycanthrope is very much like multiclassing as an animal and gaining the appropriate Hit Dice.

Size and Type

The base creature’s type does not change, but the creature gains the shapechanger subtype. The lycanthrope takes on the characteristics of some type of carnivorous or omnivorous creature of the animal type (referred to hereafter as the base animal).

This animal can be any predator, scavenger, or omnivore whose size is within one size category of the base creature’s size (Small, Medium, or Large for a Medium base creature). Lycanthropes can also adopt a hybrid shape that combines features of the base creature and the base animal. A lycanthrope’s hybrid form is the same size as the base animal or the base creature, whichever is larger.

Imagine voluntarily infecting an entire town of commoners who allow it with Dire Werebear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direBear.htm) lycanthropy. Not such a helpless village anymore eh? +12 HD already.

Or if you really wanna go nuts: Legendary Werebears (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/legendaryAnimal.htm#legendaryBear).

You might call that an... epic affliction?

[gawwy]

Were-conspiracy of ravens (swarm of crows)RAW questionable but very fun if you can pull it off.

Bonus points if you play it as an archivist who writes poetry in his spare time by the name of Edgar Allan Poe.

nevermore

[Keltest]

It may technically violate the rules for creating a were creature, but I see limitless potential in being a were-miniature-giant-space-hamster.

[MisterKaws]

Fleshraker for sure, it's not even difficult to find out why, when every druid handbook points that thing out.
Bonus points if HD 12 advanced fleshraker. It also gets you some really pissed-off glares from your DM if you infect yourself with that to get immediate +14 to ECL just by using a scroll.

[daremetoidareyo]

Let's take a look at it.

“Lycanthrope” is a template that can be added to any humanoid or giant (referred to hereafter as the base creature). The lycanthrope template can be inherited (for natural lycanthropes) or acquired (for afflicted lycanthropes). Becoming a lycanthrope is very much like multiclassing as an animal and gaining the appropriate Hit Dice.
Size and Type: The base creature’s type does not change, but the creature gains the shapechanger subtype. The lycanthrope takes on the characteristics of some type of carnivorous or omnivorous creature of the animal type (referred to hereafter as the base animal).
This animal can be any predator, scavenger, or omnivore whose size is within one size category of the base creature’s size (Small, Medium, or Large for a Medium base creature). Lycanthropes can also adopt a hybrid shape that combines features of the base creature and the base animal. A lycanthrope’s hybrid form is the same size as the base animal or the base creature, whichever is larger.

So we have two avenues to play with here: what type of humanoid or giant? what type of animal? We can template the animal so long as it doesn't change type.

Seeing as how your runnin' around blastin' with a vampire at your side, let's see what the best lycanthrope that we can make that winds up at LA+8.

My suggestion is to look through some animal companion handbooks (#1) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1300.0) (#2) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940.0)
Then check out animals and decide if you want more HD or higher stat bonuses per HD. Some animals will have amazing abilities, and you may opt for them. Fleshraker dinosaur stands out. Sailsnake MMIV looks fun,

If you want the drowiest lycanthrope that can be made, it would probably be Vril+quicksilver lizard (drow of the underdark).

Templates:
The horrid template from the eberron campaign setting adds free acid to your animal, +5 to AC, and +4 con at +1 CR, which is totally irrelevant to the calculation, so it's basically free.

Dungeonbred template (Dungeonscape) will allow you to desize a creature at no penalty to physical ability scores.

[unseenmage]

Were-Lusca (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/lusca) or Were-Iron Golem via the Monstrous Lycanthrope (http://greenronin.com/blog/2014/10/30/monster_week_monstrous_lycanth/) template.

Make it a Chthonic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template-chthonic-creature-cr-0-or-1) Lusca and it's suddenly an underground drow-encounterable creature. :smallsmile:

[ben-zayb]

To clarify: You are not beholden to using Lycanthrope, are you? Because Entomanothrope (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) is a thing, which grants nifty abilities not available to Lycanthropes (like getting the Special Qualities in ALL forms, or how about immunity to mind-affecting?).

It's tactically suboptimal, but I have a soft spot for Frostburn's Snow Spider (Small or Medium). Getting Spring Attack and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats, +8 Dex, Dex Damage / Paralysis Poison, and Tremorsense ability is a steal for 1-2 RHD and LA+2.

EDIT: Oh, and how can I forget to mention: Spiders are the most Drow-y of all.

[torrasque666]

To clarify: You are not beholden to using Lycanthrope, are you? Because Entomanothrope (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) is a thing, which grants nifty abilities not available to Lycanthropes (like getting the Special Qualities in ALL forms, or how about immunity to mind-affecting?).

It's tactically suboptimal, but I have a soft spot for Frostburn's Snow Spider (Small or Medium). Spring Attack and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats, +8 Dex, Dex Damage / Paralysis Poison, and Tremorsense ability is a steal for 1-2 RHD and LA+2.
Pathfinder bruv

[ben-zayb]

Pathfinder bruv

Oops! Well, it's not exactly difficult to port in.

[meschlum]

Since this appears to be for Pathfinder, there are some interesting opportunities that present themselves. You can go here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?352704-Templates-and-you) for a more in depth analysis of what templates can do, and a section on Lycanthropy.

Summary: lycanthropes almost win the physical attribute game (animal lords are even better), especially if you can take them at high level. The benefits for being a wererat vanish fairly quickly. The bonuses from being a were dire tiger are forever, but require a higher level.

If you're looking to build a cleric, a particular recommendation is the Emperor Cobra Animal Lord, which gets you excellent physical attributes, underwhelming combat options, and high Wisdom at the cost of a single level (requires being level 10+ to start).


Sticking to lycanthropy means you have to pay for your mental attributes, and most of what you get is just bigger physical attributes (and +2 Wisdom, which isn't bad) on top of the DR / silver. In that case, your best options (at high level) are probably Dire Tiger (good offense, decent attributes) and Arsinoitherium (tank - high Str, high Con, high armor, single high damage attack).

But really, if you have the levels, the Emperor Cobra Animal Lord is a more drowish thing to be, what with were-vermin not being an option. Even if it were, the Giant Black Widow is rather underwhelming.

Edit: Or, you could go whole hog insane and explore the Demonic Vermin Worm That Walks option. Adds lots of CR for debatable benefits, but you get to turn into a sentient, spell casting swarm of fire breathing demon worms (or spiders) which has a certain cachet.

[dspeyer]

Usually when creating lycanthropes it's good to keep the RHD down, since animal RHD are really weak (exceptions for special chargen rules). If you take a 1HD animal, you might be able to drop the RHD at your first class level. Good choices here include eagle and baboon, for decent stats and alternate movement forms (check whether those work in hybrid form. For bigger animals, leopard and black bear are both good 3HD options. Leopards get pounce, and bears have overall good stats.

If you don't need to worry about RHD, then Legendary Tiger is generally the best choice.

[WanderinCourier]

Summary: lycanthropes almost win the physical attribute game (animal lords are even better), especially if you can take them at high level. The benefits for being a wererat vanish fairly quickly. The bonuses from being a were dire tiger are forever, but require a higher level.

If you're looking to build a cleric, a particular recommendation is the Emperor Cobra Animal Lord, which gets you excellent physical attributes, underwhelming combat options, and high Wisdom at the cost of a single level (requires being level 10+ to start

So i can't say ive heard of the Animal Lord template how does that vary from Lycanthrope? And Im up to level 11/ Mythic Tier 2 all levels currently have been as a cleric.

[meschlum]

So i can't say ive heard of the Animal Lord template how does that vary from Lycanthrope? And Im up to level 11/ Mythic Tier 2 all levels currently have been as a cleric.

Level 11 is entirely satisfactory for this.

The pfsrd has the details (here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/animal-lord-cr-2)), but the highlights are:

- Ability to speak with and charm the animal you're focusing on (Snakes, Cats, or Dinosaurs depending on the option you select).
- Transform into the animal, either fully or in part for attacks.
- DR 10 / silver
- Insanely good attributes (physical and mental, in all forms, best of yours or the animal's, then add 4 - so an Emperor Cobra would have Dex 19 a least (15 from Cobra, +4 bonus) and Wisdom 21 or more (17 Cobra, + 4).
- Minor bonus from your animal type (immunity to poison, boost to jumping, or immunity to Charm and +2 to Will saves depending on the option you select)

Most of the animal options have a low CR, which is good for you, because you can add extra templates on them (as long as they remain animals). You want the animal to have CR 11 (your level) or less, so you don't have any penalties. Luckily, that's basically any animal.

- Advanced is +1 CR and is mainly +4 to all attributes (so Wisdom 25 base from Advanced Emperor Cobra, or +4 from Animal Lord if your base drow Wisdom is 22 or more)
- Giant (+1 CR) makes the animal form larger, but is limited by your own size, so it can only be used on Medium animals. It adds damage, Str, and Con and costs some Dex. If you can mix this with Young (-1 CR), the net cost is 0 CR, no size change, and some attribute bonuses.
- Fiendish / Celestial / Entropic / Counterpoised / Resolute give you minor energy resistances, a smite attack, and some extra DR. Only worth it because you can go up to CR 11 for free and these are allowed.
- Aerial / Aqueous / Chthonic / Dark / Fiery give you more energy resistance, DR, mobility options, and damage. Take Dark first, as it can stack with all the others, and you're limited to one more besides that. Again, you're aiming for CR 11 so you might as well.

By the book, you get 2 CR from the template, and one of them will be refunded as you level - so you're only one level behind your normal progression, and get high combat power out of it. If you can figure out a way to have a Large base form (be a Giant drow, essentially), you can get bigger animals for better physical attributes and damage across the board.

[BearonVonMu]

It isn't Pathfinder, but a Desmondu Bat gave a nice stat array for a low HD animal. It was from Monster Manual 2.

[Mr Adventurer]

Albino were-crocodile! (Sandstorm)

[Telonius]

It's a real shame Monstrous Spiders are vermin, not animals. It would fit very nicely.