SRD/UA Spontaneous Divine Spellcasters "Spells Known" Confusion

[ApologyFestival]

Hi, Playground! A fellow player in one of my regular 3.5 groups is playing a high-level cleric, and not having a good time of it. This player has expressed dislike at the cleric list lacking the in-your-face whizz-pow of the arcane list, and not having the free time to make multiple lists of prepared spells.

Retiring the character is an absolute last resort, but the GM has given the okay for a limited rebuild--everything subject to DM approval, no overt powergaming moves. Since this player has enjoyed playing both a sorcerer and a bard, I recommended the spontaneous divine spellcasters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant of cleric from the SRD to make the class easier to play, along with the divine magician alternate class feature (Complete Mage) to get some choice arcane spells.

But there's a problem with the spontaneous divine casters: How many spells does a spontaneous cleric know if she has more than two domains?


However, the divine caster's selection of spells known is limited. At 1st level, the character begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice, plus his two 1st-level domain spells (if a cleric) or summon nature's ally I (if a druid).

However, each time the character gains a new spell level, he gains one or more bonus spells known to add to his list. A cleric may add his two domain spells to his list of spells known, while a druid may add the appropriate summon nature's ally spell to her list of spells known. (An entry of 0 on the table indicates that the cleric knows only his domain spells of that level, and the druid knows only the summon nature's ally spell of that level.)

The text does not consider the case of a cleric having more than two domains. Which is wildly stupid in typical WotC style. The character in question already has many domains, with an eye towards getting more. If a spontaneous cleric knows every spell from their domains, the spontaneous cleric gets a lot harder to get the okay to play with from our DM, like an A-game sorcerer hauling around a backpack full of knowstones.

Does a spontaneous cleric know two spells from her domains at every spell level, or does a spontaneous cleric know all spells from her domains at every spell level?

Is there a community consensus on how to treat a spontaneous cleric with many domains? Or, if no consensus exists, can we reach one?

[Segev]

With that many domains, perhaps giving him a feat or something which would allow him to spontaneously sacrifice prepped spells for his domain spells would suffice? It'd be a totally homebrewed feat, to my knowledge, but might make things easier to adjust.

[Zancloufer]

Well the text specifies that he may add "his two domain spells or Summon Nature's Ally (if Druid)" so I would think that they know two spells at each spell level in ADDITION to what the table specifies, but these two extra spells have to be domain spells.

Also I would point out that this variant class seems like someone tried merging the Favoured Soul and Cleric. The Complete Divine Favoured Soul might work a little better for your friend comparing the two:

Spontaneous Cleric Pros:
+ Wisdom for both spells per day and spell save DC, instead of FS' Wis for DC and Cha for Spells per day. Though they still need Cha for Turning/Divine feats. . .
+ Turn Undead. Divine feats. Though it is worth noting that since their a "Spontaneous" caster now DMM takes a small nerf.
+ Domain powers.
+ Get higher level spells a level earlier. Though it's only their Domain ones.

Favoured Soul Pros:
+ All saves are good, instead of just two.
+ More spells per day. Favoured Souls can cast one more spell per spell level. Also note that one of the cleric spells each level HAS to be one of their two domain ones.
+ Less Restrictions on spells known. At the end of the day they both know the same amount, but almost 1/3rd of the cleric's spells known are set in stone after you choose your domains. You have to choose theses domains VERY CAREFULLY.
+/- Class Features. This is a iffy one, as you can Prc out of the Cleric if you find a class that grants full Cleric casting with little penalty. However if going no Prc the FS does get some passable DR (DR 10 vs up to 3 elements eventually). Also get a free Weapon Proficiency which turns into a Weapon Focus and Spec with Deity's favoured weapon. Also Ex Flight 60ft movement and Good Manoeuvrability, though not till level 17.

I mean Cleric >> FS, but most of that is because the cleric knows the entire spell list, and better meta-magic. You've just traded 90% of those benefits away with this alternate class, so it is something to consider.

[BowStreetRunner]

I believe the logical answer to your question is on page 20 of Complete Divine under the EXTRA DOMAINS header. It does not appear clear at first, as the term 'noncleric' is used and in this case the divine spontaneous spellcaster may indeed be a cleric. Just read 'noncleric' as 'not the PHB-style cleric' and it should make sense. The key sentence here is "If the noncleric is a spontaneous caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would have an option to choose a new known spell."

So treat the character's starting domains as automatically added to their spell list and spells known, while the extra domain spells are added to their spell list as options to add to their spells known.

[Zancloufer]

I believe the logical answer to your question is on page 20 of Complete Divine under the EXTRA DOMAINS header. It does not appear clear at first, as the term 'noncleric' is used and in this case the divine spontaneous spellcaster may indeed be a cleric. Just read 'noncleric' as 'not the PHB-style cleric' and it should make sense. The key sentence here is "If the noncleric is a spontaneous caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would have an option to choose a new known spell."

So treat the character's starting domains as automatically added to their spell list and spells known, while the extra domain spells are added to their spell list as options to add to their spells known.

It does say if a SPONTANEOUS CASTER like a Favoured Soul or Sorcerer gains a domain they may add those spells to their spells known, but the real dysfunction is when it calls out sorcerers as being unable to increase their spells known this way. Does that mean that ALL spontaneous caster's can't gain more spells known from domains, only the arcane ones, or does some designer really hate sorcerers for some reason. Would check on how the DM rules it, though it's not like extra domains are easy to get . . .

[Grod_The_Giant]

I believe the logical answer to your question is on page 20 of Complete Divine under the EXTRA DOMAINS header. It does not appear clear at first, as the term 'noncleric' is used and in this case the divine spontaneous spellcaster may indeed be a cleric. Just read 'noncleric' as 'not the PHB-style cleric' and it should make sense. The key sentence here is "If the noncleric is a spontaneous caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would have an option to choose a new known spell."

So treat the character's starting domains as automatically added to their spell list and spells known, while the extra domain spells are added to their spell list as options to add to their spells known.
This seems about right.

[nedz]

This is a rules dysfunction — actually there are several.

The character is still a Cleric and so those rules should apply. This could be taken to mean that they chose two domain spells, at each spell level, at the start of each day: from their available domains — if you read the paragraph starting "If Delliva, an 8th level Cleric, ..."

A 1st level a cleric can have 3 domains (Cloistered) or less than two (if they traded them away for devotion feats) so the text is the Spontaneous Cleric section of UA/SRD is problematic even before PrCs are considered and the text is CDiv comes into play.

I have always interpreted it as giving them access to all known domains — but this is always a houserule, however you read it.

[Bobbybobby99]

Generally, I also go with the 'All domains are added to the spell list' interpretation, but I also often play Spontaneous Cloistered Clerics (as my favorite class), so I may be a tad biased. In any case, given that you're essentially dropping down a tier just by going from regular cleric to spontaneous cleric, I would consider the added domain spells to be fairly reasonable.

[Debatra]

I'm pretty sure it's meant to give all Domain spells and the word two is just a redundancy (since a standard cleric has two).


With that many domains, perhaps giving him a feat or something which would allow him to spontaneously sacrifice prepped spells for his domain spells would suffice? It'd be a totally homebrewed feat, to my knowledge, but might make things easier to adjust.

Domain Spontaneity from Complete Divine. Unfortunately, it only applies to one domain each time you take it. You also have to use one Turn/Rebuke for each casting.