Paladin/Witch/Wizard ... What!? Shh, its about the familiar....

[Eldonauran]

A short explanation: After viewing a necro-ed paizo rules question thread on the Luck Domain ability, I got to thinking about how a character would actually make use of this domain power (Bit of Luck) personally. It is a standard action and lasts until the start of your next turn. Doesn't get any faster. Quicken Spell-like ability might be applicable but that's an 11th level feat (ie, a long way off) and uses a swift action. Then, I remembered seeing the familiar archetype Emissary (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/emissary-familiar-archetype) that gets to pick a domain ability to use 1/day. Sure, it's limited but its a start.

How can we get more uses? Well, in feat form Believer's Boon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/believer-s-boon) allows for a similar mechanic. Pick a domain, get 1/day (up to 1 round) use of the ability. Problem with this is ... familiars do not get feats. Except when they do ... Beast-bonded (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/beast-bonded) and Spirit Binder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/spirit-binder-wizard-archetype) have the ability to grant feats (or give their own) to their familiars. I'm not playing in Pathfinder society (in which Spirit Binder is not approved for play) so both of these are options.

I figure if you are going to get a familiar, get an improved one, best if you get one automatically with little loss in power. I also figure that using Bit of Luck is probably best used on a martial character. Since we want the Emissary archetype ... Chosen One (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/chosen-one-paladin-archetype) is a Paladin archetype that fits our needs well. It really doesn't give anything up other than the Divine Bond (only delays some starting abilities).

So, that is where I am on concept. What I would like to get out of this thread is these two things:

Is there a feat that increases the number of uses you get from a domain ability?
How would you suggest we put this character together?


Paladin 15/Witch4/Wizard1

Why 15 paladin? Mostly to fit 4 witch and 1 wizard, but we could easily go Pally16/Witch3/Wiz1. The goal is to have 4th level pally spells, 2nd level witch spells and 1 level of wizard.

Why 4 witch? No other reason than getting mirror image on our list due to Trickery patron. Really, we only need 1 level to pick up a hex (which qualifies us for extra hex as needed) and we want to select hexes that do not really much on witch level. Wizard would allow us to use mirror image scrolls or wands easily.

So, Pally16/Witch3/Wiz1 is my plan of action for the moment.

1st) Paladin 1
2nd) Wizard 1
3rd) Witch 1
4th) Paladin 2
5th) Paladin 3
6th) Paladin 4
7th) Witch 2
8th) Witch 3
9+) Paladin 5+

I'm thinking stats along the lines of STR>CHA=INT>DEX=CON>WIS.
So, 20 point buy: (+2 racial in Str, 14+2) (+1 Dex, +4 Str, in levelups)
Str: 16, Dex: 13, Con: 12, Int: 14, Wis: 10, Cha: 14


OHHH!!! Along other lines... What school should i focus on as a wizard? Since we are only taking 1 level, it needs to rely very little on level/caster level and provide a decent benefit. Otherwise, trade it off for something else.


*Disclaimer: Not trying to create the most optimized Paladin ever. Just trying to optimize around a concept (Familiar using Bit of Luck on master) and finding stuff that works together with it. I'm tempted to have the character worship Shelyn and take the variant multiclass Bard option. We'll see how that goes.

[Florian]

Seems awfully complicated to replicate what the Witch can do with the Fortune Hex all day long,

[Kurald Galain]

It's a fun idea. You could also use the Law domain ability for a similar effect.

[Eldonauran]

Seems awfully complicated to replicate what the Witch can do with the Fortune Hex all day long,
The problem with that is Fortune only allows for the reroll of ONE d20 versus Bit of Luck allowing EVERY d20 being rerolled that round. Additionally, being able to cackle loudly every three seconds for most of the day is fairly impressive if you intend to eat, drink, or even have a conversation with anyone. This character could pull that off if I had the desire to attempt that vocal feat, since it gets access to at least 2 hexes.


It's a fun idea. You could also use the Law domain ability for a similar effect.
Ohhh! Good idea! A single character can take Believer's Boon twice. Now just need to find a Lawful Good deity that offers both the Luck and Law domain. Shelyn is Neutral Good, so her portfolio lacks the Law domain.


Anyway, I explored some other options with the character as I put it together in HeroLab (even though you have to double check a lot of things). There is another Paladin archetype (Holy Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/holy-guide)) that stacks nicely with Chosen One. We get to swap out two mercies for a favored terrain (can drop more mercies for more of the same) and a teamwork feat that we can share by sacrificing a smite evil (you know, for those times where the enemies isn't exactly evil).

One odd thing that I noticed in HeroLab was upon reaching 3rd level and gaining Domain Influence (or taking the Believer's Boon feat), the familiar became eligible to take the War Blessing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/war-blessing) feat. Something about those might be flagged to count as have a domain 'class ability'. It brings up an interesting possibility for the familiar to be able to influence the master's luck an additional two times per day (Luck blessing). Definitely something to look into.

Decisions should be made on the improved familiar we get at Paladin 7. I'm leaning towards the Silvanshee (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/agathion/agathion-silvanshee) because it is awesome and ... it has to match the deity's alignment (NG). It has its own Lay on Hands (even though it can use its Master's ability as well), gets its Charisma mod to its saving throws and can turn into mist. The best thing is that it still retains the abilities of the original familiar as it can shift back and forth between those two forms. The Cassian (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/angel/angel-cassisian) looks promising too, simply because of its inherent shape changing ability.

[Peat]

Ohhh! Good idea! A single character can take Believer's Boon twice. Now just need to find a Lawful Good deity that offers both the Luck and Law domain. Shelyn is Neutral Good, so her portfolio lacks the Law domain.


Unless Archives of Nethys has missed one, I don't think there is one. Closest I could find was Magdh of the Eldest, who is LN.

[Eldonauran]

Unless Archives of Nethys has missed one, I don't think there is one. Closest I could find was Magdh of the Eldest, who is LN.

Well, wow. Magdh is a VERY interesting character. Not much has been written about her, but from what I can see ...

1) Demigod
2) Prophetess and Seer
3) First World inhabitant (birthplace of the fey)
4) Lawful Neutral
5) She is a powerful, divine fey
6) Favored weapon is a scythe
7) Multi-headed animals are the thing (she has three faces!?)

This sort of patron would be a very flavorful addition to the character for several reasons. First, Fey Foundling makes a lot of sense and is a widely popular first level feat for Paladins. Secondly, picking the Foresight school for the wizard level falls right in line. Third, the elimination of the 4th level of witch means no bonus 2nd level spell and no need to worry about patron spells, meaning that I can take Patron Familiar to give the familiar an added boost and select whatever patron best suits the 1st level witch spells. However ... the sorts of improved familiar available to a Lawful Neutral deity (has to be an exact alignment match due to Chosen One) is severely lacking. They are either underwhelming or don't fit the flavor. We'll have to see if there is an alternative.

[avr]

There are a couple of ways - not really compatible with your above ideas - for a cleric to apply a standard action domain ability in less than a standard action.

Get the Domain Strike feat, punch your friend as part of a full attack or something (maybe with TWF) then spend a swift action giving them the bit of luck.

Alternately get a conductive weapon (maybe a whip?) and proceed similarly.

I've got to do this some day.

[Yanisa]

Well, wow. Magdh is a VERY interesting character. Not much has been written about her, but from what I can see ...

1) Demigod
2) Prophetess and Seer
3) First World inhabitant (birthplace of the fey)
4) Lawful Neutral
5) She is a powerful, divine fey
6) Favored weapon is a scythe
7) Multi-headed animals are the thing (she has three faces!?)

This sort of patron would be a very flavorful addition to the character for several reasons. First, Fey Foundling makes a lot of sense and is a widely popular first level feat for Paladins. Secondly, picking the Foresight school for the wizard level falls right in line. Third, the elimination of the 4th level of witch means no bonus 2nd level spell and no need to worry about patron spells, meaning that I can take Patron Familiar to give the familiar an added boost and select whatever patron best suits the 1st level witch spells. However ... the sorts of improved familiar available to a Lawful Neutral deity (has to be an exact alignment match due to Chosen One) is severely lacking. They are either underwhelming or don't fit the flavor. We'll have to see if there is an alternative.

Perhaps the feat Pantheistic Blessing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/pantheistic-blessing) can help? The exact impact on the rules isn't clear, but if you worship a bunch of deities you can easily assume that your familiar must match one of their alignments, or at least the central one (True Neutral). Not sure if there isn't thing there, most outsiders aren't fey like.

I also like Magdh on your build for the meta humor. Magdh's Areas of Concern included Complexity, fate, triplets. Your triple class build is rather complex, it's almost fated to win Magdh's Favor. :smallwink:




Or otherwise perhaps you can convince your DM to use the feat get 2 domains from 2 different god. For example the sandpoint pantheon (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Pantheistic%20Blessing) has both Shelyn (Luck) and Erastil (Paladin God and Law).

[Florian]

Jupp, chosing a pantheon should work.

On a totally unrelated note, wouldn't sticking to an animal bond be the better choice here? Sticking Believers Boon and Believers Hands as well as War Blessing on it should work. What's that then? A Ponydin?

(Try doing that with a Spritualists phantom, as well as entering the Eldritch Heritage chain for Celestial bloodline....)

[Eldonauran]

On a totally unrelated note, wouldn't sticking to an animal bond be the better choice here? Sticking Believers Boon and Believers Hands as well as War Blessing on it should work. What's that then? A Ponydin?

(Try doing that with a Spritualists phantom, as well as entering the Eldritch Heritage chain for Celestial bloodline....)

The only problem with that sort of chassis is the ability point requirement for WIS and CHA. Not many animal companions start with 13 WIS and phantoms have a flat 10 WIS. Familiars just happened to be the best all around option that I could see. Though, I like your style. MLP references and all. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any pony-ish familiar (improved or otherwise) or one that could shapechange into one.


The Sandpoint pantheon is a very intriguing option.

[Florian]

The only problem with that sort of chassis is the ability point requirement for WIS and CHA. Not many animal companions start with 13 WIS and phantoms have a flat 10 WIS. Familiars just happened to be the best all around option that I could see. Though, I like your style. MLP references and all. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any pony-ish familiar (improved or otherwise) or one that could shapechange into one.


The Sandpoint pantheon is a very intriguing option.

Both, ACs and Phantom have free attribute points to spent. Your regular Horse starts out with Wis12, so just one raise away. Remember that an bonded mount also has Int6, so is elligible to chose all feats.

Besides the Imp, I don't know any shapechanging familiar right now.

[Psyren]

The problem with that is Fortune only allows for the reroll of ONE d20 versus Bit of Luck allowing EVERY d20 being rerolled that round. Additionally, being able to cackle loudly every three seconds for most of the day is fairly impressive if you intend to eat, drink, or even have a conversation with anyone. This character could pull that off if I had the desire to attempt that vocal feat, since it gets access to at least 2 hexes.

Ring of Sustenance and telepathy :smalltongue:

[EldritchWeaver]

The only problem with that sort of chassis is the ability point requirement for WIS and CHA. Not many animal companions start with 13 WIS and phantoms have a flat 10 WIS. Familiars just happened to be the best all around option that I could see. Though, I like your style. MLP references and all. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any pony-ish familiar (improved or otherwise) or one that could shapechange into one.

Actually, Ponyfinder offers rules for ponykind familiars. Unfortunately, they aren't online (or I failed to find them) and they are too long to cite them completely here (at least without potentially violating a rule).

[Forderz]

I'm pretty sure Silver Games is in the process of putting the mechanical stuff in Ponyfinder onto the pfsrd, as the base race stats are already up, including a list of feats such characters can take.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/silver-games/ponykind

Such feats are unlinked, but does future intent fall under portability rules?