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AmbientRaven
2015-12-11, 08:46 AM
Hi Folks,

I'm playing in a game where the setting is basically the 1700's. I have finally nailed down my character to be an aspiring pirate king. After going through the classes a Daring Champion Cavalier seems the best option for this as the Gm ruled no hybrids are allowed (I would have gone swashbuckler otherwise?). I'll be a Rapier Fencing Grace build (I wanted to go cutlass, but it is slashing, and Champions Finesse only works with piercing).
I chose this for a few reasons, the archetype is perfect for the showman, bravado style I am thinking of (Think Dread Pirate Roberts/Zorro), it is charisma based and we need a party face, the Banner will be his pirate flag, the challenge seems to fit in with the pirate killing his way to the top.

I am new to pathfinder (not D&D, I have played a lot of 5th, and 3.5 when it first came out)

I am unsure how to build the character though! Which is where you lovely folks come in!
The party so far includes a witch, a wizard, an oracle, a buccaneer gunslinger and an alchemist

For race I will be going a Fanglord. Grippli had to many drawbacks, and Human is generically boring. Also it came down to Feat of human (as i needed to drop int to equal Fanglord stat array) vs the shifted abilities (perfect night vision including magical, a bite or 10ft movement). Also Jump 1/Day could be handy on a pirate ship!

For race I am torn between human (boring!), Fang-Lord Skinwalker and a Grippli.
Fang-Lord nets me perfect stats (dex/cha) choice of bite, claws, movement, or darkvision. Also the fun RP of a pirate lord afraid of water (#JustCatThings).
Human nets me extra skills as well as a bonus feat bringing Fencing Grace online at level 1.
Grippli nets me ok stat mods, a bonus to diplomacy/intimidate, licking my rapier to poison it, and the hilarity of a Grippli pirate lord. Just hilarious!

I'll be going Order of the Cockatrice. it just had much better options than flame, and fits a Fanglord.
For my order I am thinking order of the Cockatrice, though order of the Flame could work as well. The bonus to intimidate from Flame could be handy for first round dazzling displays to intimidate foes, and will help in social situations. Daunting success would work well with a rapier (which is 18-20 base, after keen it drops 16-20) gaining free intimidate checks from criticals, though if I go a Fanglord and get Violent Display this is useless (though, saves a feat). Compared to that Cockatrice gets me +2 morale bonus vs demoralized targets, which is handy with keen and Violent Display (especially if I dip rogue). Steal glory is excellent, especially if I take Combat Reflexes.


So far I will be going Weapon Focus, Slashing/Fencing Grace, Power Attack, Cornugon Smash, Leadership. If GM allows I will take Signature Skill (Intimidate) and most likely Skill Focus (intimidate).
Unsure what to do with the rest of my feats. Also, no idea about team work feats to take.


For feats, I was wondering if getting 13str (ruling out Grippli) and going Power Attack->Cornugan Smash is worth while as Cocktrice, or sticking to just Standard Action Dazzling display.
If I go Fang-Lord & Thug Rogue Violent Display seems worthwhile as well? Would Violent Display still be worth while with just a keen weapon?
Are the Feint line of feats worth while? Improved Feint with a rogue dip seems like it could be worthwhile? Also are the dirty fighting feats any good for this sort of build? I've been told contradictory things.
What other feats could be worthwhile? I'll be taking leadership at 7th level.

Rogue dip
I have thought about a dip into rogue Rogue (Thug) to add 1 round to shaken effects, or, if the effect last 4+ rounds making it frightened instead. Going to second level nets me -1BAB, better Reflex, -4-6 Damage (Challenge+precise Strike), but gets me a rogue talent (Combat feat) and evasion.
Thinking of taking the dip at 7th Level, and the second dip (if i do it) at 13th level (netting me the main cavalier skills). Though it has been pointed out that if the GM ok's Signature Skill then I won't need the rogue dip.

Traits
Irrepressible almost seems a must (as i have 8 Wisdom), helping shore up my save vs charm and compulsion. I was also considering Signature Move, selecting Cutlass/Rapier for better intimidate/bluff. or I was thinking Extremly fashionable, but that won't help until later on.

Weapon
Torn between Cutlass and Rapier. Besides Fencing Grace being better than Slashing Grace, are there other benefits for a slashing vs a piercing one (like enchants that only affect one weapon type ect. ?)

That is all that comes to mind at present, sorry for the million questions

Thank you so much for any advice rendered and for taking the time to read this!

Geddy2112
2015-12-11, 10:35 AM
I second Grippli just for the total swag factor. Nothing says BAMF like a grippli in a tricorne shouting threats at people. You will take a -4 to intimidate people larger than you, which is something to consider. Being able to climb is valuable on a boat, and grippli poison is some of the best poison in the game because it levels.

Since you don't need int to qualify for combat feats, you really just need Dex and Cha, with a decent Wis and con for saves and HP. Intelligence and strength are your dump stats.

Cockatrice is a much better order than flame, and the free dazzling display into violent display>daunting success. The other flame order abilities are terrible, and while the glorious challenge can be good, it is situational.

Feinting is generally garbage-most things that don't rely on a ton of armor usually have pretty high sense motive and wisdom(monks) but in a campaign with lightly armored foes it might work. Improved feinting as a move action is nice, but you want full round attacks usually. Also, being able to intimidate is generally better for shaking. Power attack+coragun smash is a must have for most intimidate builds. Dodge/mobility/spring attack might be useful, agile tongue is great if you are a grippli. Combat reflexes is a solid pick for any dex build, and works well with steal glory. The antagonize feat is also really good for intimidation builds, and helps get your challenges nice and close.

For rogue dip, I would go Thug over pirate. Being able to inflict frightened with a dazzling display is really useful, and only requires a 1 level dip. The sickened bonus is nice because it does not allow a save, but 3 levels in rogue is a hard bargain. Now, if you can use unchained rogue take three levels in rogue first and get dex to damage with the rapier saving you a feat. If you rogue dip as a grippli, take the lasting poison talent to make your grippli poison really powerful. Resiliency and combat trick are always good choices as well. If/when you dip, either start rogue, or go at least 2 levels in cav to get dazzling display as a bonus from cockatrice. The next place to dip would be after level 5 in cav when you get the banner. By 11 cav levels you have all the major goodies you need, so then you could really look into multiclassing. I think rogue is good, but you could go 20 in cavalier no problem.

For gear, always have a ranged weapon. A light/heavy crossbow, or if guns are cheap enough, grab a piece. Sometimes you won't be able to be close, or want to be, and you don't want to be left waiting to act. If you are in ship to ship combat you can dakka before its close enough to try and board. You can also use the crossbow/bow to launch a grappling arrow or bolt, giving you a way to get into the fray. Snipe from the crow's nest, then shoot a grappling bolt/arrow and zipline down, using your rapier to hold on. Land, dazzling display, challenge and kill the big nasty, profit.

AmbientRaven
2015-12-12, 07:23 PM
@Geddy2112
Thank you for the information! I think I will end up going a Fanglord, as Grippli would be awesome, but -2 intimidate and a bad stat spread (to get Power Attack/Connigan) makes it not fantastic. Also Fanglord ties in perfectly with Cockatrice. Humans are just so generically bland!

I think I may take the Thug dip at level 7. This will get me the Cornugon Feat and banner. Then taking the thug dip helps further along the intimidate combat style (2 Rounds of shaken means I get +2 to hit every turn, meaning I can power attack with no major loss)

Also i was considering taking irrepresible trait and Signature Move trait at the start. one adds to combat intimidates, the other adds cha to saves, meaning i can drop wis for some int as I also need to party face, are there better trait options though?

Secret Wizard
2015-12-12, 07:24 PM
If your GM allows Signature Skill, you can take that at level 5 and ignore the Thug dip.

AmbientRaven
2015-12-12, 07:59 PM
I have a feeling he won;t allow it as i think we aren't using unchained classes, and that feat seems to be "unchained skills", i shall ask though. Also i could only take it at 5 if I were human. All feats up to 7 are used as a Fanglord.

I'm also pretty sure I shall go fanglord, as I can get similar stat arrays on human/fanglord similar skills. I'll be a feat behind, but i'll have the cool rp of being a tiger man scary pirate, and a natural bite attack.

Deadkitten
2015-12-12, 09:07 PM
For your feat selection, Hurtful would give you an extra attack as a swift action at the cost of one single feat. That helps since you can't TWF

Also, Chain Challenge is crazy good for Cavaliers and is basically a must have feat.

They are both from the monster codex.