Building a Party Face Bard in 3.5

[Doctor Despair]

In a level 20 party, I've decided that, for now at least, I don't have interest in having a lot of DPS. Research into epic level capabilities have led me to believe that combat utility is one of the least fun things I could do. I want to go for more of a party face role, and bards certainly get enough skill points to do it. On that note, I've never played a party face before, nor a bard for that matter.


I feel like sense motive, bluff, diplomacy, and perform are some gimmes here -- intimidate, that I can remember, is never good unless you specialize your entire build specifically towards it. I was also thinking I could get some disguise. I'm kinda hoping to pull a sort of unassuming, extremely charming, likeable stranger vibe in towns without the negatives of being famous and therefore a target for things. I'm not sure what all else would be important for a party face though. Appraise? Does anyone even try to gimp players on appraise? Can I just bardic knowledge for approximate prices?


It bears mention that we will, in all likelihood, have a Terrasque in our party since one party member is determined to have a Terrasque as a mount with an alternate pegasus form. With a 48 BAB party member, is it worth dipping 10 levels into warchanter? Or am I missing out on some fun bard PrCs for party faces by doing that? I also feel like if I went warchanter, I'd be obligated to take some of the advanced leadership feats for archers and... shenanigans. Any suggestions on what to do here?

[nedz]

Have you considered Beguiler ?
With Rainbow Servant if you must, or your party is high OP.

Anyway, Fear based builds just take a few feats — and a skill trick. There's a handbook here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8759).

Also, look at the Nightmare Spinner class (Complete Mage p74).

At level 20 you probably ought to consider Sublime Chord.

[stanprollyright]

Bard 9/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8. 9th level spells and full music progression.

Good feats: Words of Creation, Dragonfire Inspiration, Melodic Casting, Song of the Heart, Snowflake Wardance, Knowledge Devotion, Lyric Spell, Metamagic Song, Quicken Spell, Extend/Persist Spell, Doomspeak.

[Socratov]

To make a party face bard, pump charisma (you should do this anyway) and wis, get all the face skills (like sense motive) get glibness and zone of truth (no use letting that npc use your tactic on you).

Then you follow the advice of all the posters before, (which you can pretty much do simultaneously) and rock on!

[Rebel7284]

As an ECL 20 character, you can fit more roles than simply diplomancing.

Some ideas about how to optimize your social abilities:

Changeling: Rogue 1: Social Intuition (Ex): You are more aware of any social situation you may find yourself in. You gain the following bonuses:
Gather information checks to gain knowledge only takes 1d4+1X10 minutes.
Sense Motive gut reactions are done as a move equivalent action.
You can always take 10 on: Bluff, Intimidate, Gather Information, Diplomacy and Sense motive, even when distractions normally would not allow it.
This ability replaces the Rogues standard trapfinding ability.

Binder Dip -> Bind Naberius
Silver Tongue: You can take 10 on Diplomacy and Bluff checks even if distracted or threatened. In addition, you can make a rushed Diplomacy check as a standard action and take no penalty. (Normally, a rushed Diplomacy check requires a full-round action and imposes a –10 penalty on the check.)

Both Warlock and Dragonfire Adept have an invocation that gives +6 to social skills accessible with a one level dip.

Glibness makes for a good persist target

The feat Nymph's Kiss [exalted] gives a +2 Circumstance bonus to all Cha-based checks AND extra skill points!

Marshal's Motivate Charisma will allow you to add your Charisma Bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks, essentially double dipping.

Exemplar 5 allows you to use any other skill in place of a Diplomacy check.


Besides diplomancy:

Sublime Chord has already been mentioned for giving you level-appropriate spellcasting.

Dragonfire Inspiration is known as a great way to buff and, if optimized with Words of Creation, is still good at level 20.

Spelldancer, in addition to being thematically appropriate, would allow you to persist a bunch of amazing defenses to hopefully avoid dying when your diplomacy attempts fail.

Incantatrix is better than Spelldancer due to much simpler requirements, but less on theme.

Warrior Skald is pretty great for giving you back inspire greatness if you prestige out of Bard early.

I may post a few specific builds later.

[Hiro Quester]

Also several items that boost your cha checks or diplomacy checks.

Vest of Legends (+5 diplomacy and perform)

Circlet of persuasion +3 competence on CHA checks)

A ring of telepathy is also useful for diplomancers.

And yes, extend/persist spell is totally worth it, for persisted glibness especially.

The skill trick Social Recovery (make a bluff check to recover a failed diplomacy check) is worth the 2 skill points.

At level 20 your WBL will probably spring for wish spells (cheaper than tome) to add to your CHA.

Heartfire Fanner is another Bard PRC (Dragon 314) worth investigating (progresses bardic musics, knowledge, and casting, with new musics that grant one or even two free fighter feats and free metamagic to party members (I played one, and my party members were asking for the free fighter feat music all the time --everyone gets blindfight, or the next level of their specialty (Rapidshot, GTWF, etc.). The roleplaying --fire is the source of creative inspiration-- is also fun.

It can also progress Sublime Chord's up to 9th level casting, which I totally recommend, for the sorcerer casting with bard 6th level spells at 6th level -- much earlier that Sorcerer/wiz get them (e.g. irresistible dance, hindsight).