Magic shows in Forgotten Realms

[Dalebert]

What are they like? Seriously, I'm wondering how common spell-casters are and thus how impressive is it when you do parlor tricks on a stage or in a tavern. If you disappear out of a box, are people just going to shrug and say "Meh, he probably just actually teleported. Big deal." Have they stopped altogether? Are they more popular perhaps in more rural areas where folks maybe have never crossed paths with a spellcaster? Even then, have they not heard believable tells of magic in the "big city"?

I'm curious what the culture might be like in a world with real magic. How does this affect the nature of entertainment?

[Corran]

Hmmm, I think that magic shows would not be sell outs, especially in big cities or generally places where magic is not that uncommon (or at least it is sth people have heard about). But magic contests where one magic user tries to outperform another would definitelly be more interesting.

[gfishfunk]

Guesses:

Even in a large city, 90% of the population either do not know someone who can cast spells, or are unaware that they know someone who can. Another 8% may have seen it once or twice or know someone who can do it, but haven't seen a lot of it. 2% are not going to be impressed with magic, or are knowledgeable enough about it.

[VoxRationis]

Think of magic shows more like firework displays. There isn't a person there who doesn't have a pretty good idea of what's going on, but it is impressive nonetheless.

[Santra]

A level 7 illusionist can put on some pretty damn impressive shows with Major Image and Hallucinatory Terrain.

Crap that makes me want to play an illusionist playwright.

[Hawkstar]

They'd probably be cool, and popular. Sure, most people know how spellcasting works, but not everyone's able to cast spells, and those that are likely don't have the creativity/imagination/control to pull off some of the spectacular displays Performance Magicians can. It's all about the show.

[Bubzors]

It's all about the show.

This. People nowadays go to magic shows knowing it's all fake and sometimes how jt js done. But your there to be entertained, to experience the SHOW. That's why the assistant is scantily dressed or wears glittery clothing and there is accompanying music and light show.

Shows probably would be very popular and have different genres. You could have a haunting musical epic performed by the bard accompanied by an illusionists beautiful light show. Or a comedy rogue and wizard duo. Maybe something like Tom and jerry, where the rogue antagonize the wizard. Things like sneak and slight of hand stealing spell components without the wizards knowledge. Or slapstick humor accompanied by large illusionary POWS, WHAMS, and BANGS!

the possibilities are endless

[BRC]

I could see Magic Shows happening, but they would be very different.
In our world a "Magic Show" carries a lot of the idea that the Magician (who is actually using trickery and sleight-of-hand) is using Magic.

In a Fantasy World, I could see performers who demonstrate amazing feats of conjuration, WITHOUT using any magic.

Otherwise, a Magic show could be more like an acrobatic or other artistic performance. The purpose is to impress and entertain the audience with the Magician's skill.
So, while it might be common to see somebody capable of casting, say, Minor Illusion, you may pay good money to see a magician use minor illusion to create an elaborate tapestry to accompany a story, or to create satirical images of a disliked local lord, or to make illusions twist, shimmer, and dance in ways that nobody else can.

Think of it as the difference between somebody throwing a tennis ball into the air, and then catching it, and a skilled juggler juggling five flaming torches while riding a unicycle.

[Millstone85]

This reminds me of a fanfic where an academical spellcaster confronted the star of a magic show (with real magic, just of the illusion school) about how the performance did not feature actual fireballs or an actual portal to a fearsome plane of existence. The illusionist tried very hard not to facepalm (or well, "facehoof", as it was based on that cartoon).

[weaseldust]

I imagine the conjurers just ostentatiously cast Antimagic Field on the stage at the start of the act.

[Sigreid]

I could see them being popular and even inspiring a sense of wonder that real magic may not. It could compare to gymnastics. I know they are now using any magic and that's why I'm in awe that people can do that.

Beyond that, I've yet to see a successful magician that is not also s skilled story teller and comedian. The tricks really aren't that entertaining, it's the performer that is "all that".

[Alejandro]

Illusionists and conjurers could run smashingly successful exotic dance clubs, etc.

[Sigreid]

Illusionists and conjurers could run smashingly successful exotic dance clubs, etc.

Like an exotic dance club needs anything but dancers to be successful. :P

[Steampunkette]

Magic Shows are about suspension of disbelief. About questioning whether magic is real or false.

In a world with quantifiable magic a magic show would never work.

Instead you would have Sleight of Hand shows. It's the same basic principle, but you wouldn't pretend it's magic. It would all be about the requisite skills and inventiveness required to perform the various tricks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0JfSFqoga4

[Tvtyrant]

I think illusion shows would be the most popular form of entertainment. They are better looking than movies and relatively low level. Magic shows like we have now wouldn't be able to compete.

[JellyPooga]

In a world with quantifiable magic a magic show would never work.

Magic shows like we have now wouldn't be able to compete.

I disagree. A clever performer could use real-world trickery "magic" to deceive an audience into believing he's capable of casting spells of much higher level than he actually is and make a show out of it.

Sure the audience might know that Teleport or Conjure Animals are spells, but;
1) not everyone is capable of casting them.
2) not everyone who could cast them does.
3) not everyone who does cast them does it for show.
4) not everyone in the audience knows what those spells actually look like when cast.
5) people pay to be entertained. A spellcaster couldn't just stand on a stage casting spells and earn much money (a bit, but not a lot). A performer, on the other hand, could make loads of money pretending to be a spellcaster and making it entertaining.

Compare it to soap operas; I'm not a fan myself, but they are among the most popular shows on TV. Why? They're just "real life" on TV; they take the "normal" events of "real life" and dramatise them for the screen. Similarly, a performer, whether he's actually a spellcaster or not, can take the "normal" of spellcasting and dramatise it for the stage.

[Steampunkette]

What I'm saying is that a pure sleight of hand show, a Magic Show, would not be able to stand up against a magic show with real magic.

Give a first level rogue magic initiate with Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, and some other spell and any "Magic Show", which is entirely sleight of hand, will collapse by comparison in lameness.

But a show -about- Sleight of Hand. Where the audience learns how it's done and marvels at the show of skill... that would become huge.

At least until you get some mid-level Arcane Trickster flinging around higher powered illusions to Misdirect while using high Sleight of Hand mods.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Guys, how has no one mentioned The Great Gazib and The Amazing Oopah (http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/The_Great_Gazib_and_The_Amazing_Oopah) yet?!

Conjuring up an exploding ogre is top-dollar entertainment in the Realms!

[Temperjoke]

What I'm saying is that a pure sleight of hand show, a Magic Show, would not be able to stand up against a magic show with real magic.

Give a first level rogue magic initiate with Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, and some other spell and any "Magic Show", which is entirely sleight of hand, will collapse by comparison in lameness.

But a show -about- Sleight of Hand. Where the audience learns how it's done and marvels at the show of skill... that would become huge.

At least until you get some mid-level Arcane Trickster flinging around higher powered illusions to Misdirect while using high Sleight of Hand mods.

Maybe, but would full-time magic-users stoop to performing real magic for the masses? The conversation reminds me of Raistlin's childhood, where he did sleight-of-hand to make money outside of his wizard school classes, his teacher was shocked and offended that Raistlin was doing that. I mean, anyone performing real magic (even if just cantrips) will have better sources of money than a simple stage show or street performance. Think of it like a skilled crafter, sure maybe they wouldn't mind showing off to the public once in a while, but they'll earn more by concentrating on a commission from a paying customer.

I'd imagine that there would be a gap. You have sleight-of-hand performances for coppers by regular people in street performances, while the highborn and wealthy would have performances by the skilled magic-users, but the middleclass would probably see more traveling bards and such in taverns, rather than wizards. People who could use real magic in their performance, if they had any real talent and intended to make a career out of performing, probably sought out wealthy patrons, or created a territory where they would chase away other competition.

[JellyPooga]

What I'm saying is that a pure sleight of hand show, a Magic Show, would not be able to stand up against a magic show with real magic.

Why not? If it looks like magic to the audience, then it's magic to the audience. Sleight-of-hand shows (in real life) are about making people believe something they know isn't real, if only for a little while. In the Realms, where magic is an actual thing, a sleight-of-hand show would be no less impressive for the fact that the audience knows that magic exists.

A poor performer with Minor Illusion might be able to get a few coppers using his actual magic, but a good performer who doesn't use any magic could earn gold pretending he does; especially if he can prove he didn't use magic to pull of tricks that people know can be done with magic.

It's not about the content, it's about the performance. If you use a known element (in this case magic), then the performance has to be that much better to be impressive. Some apprentice showing off his skill with Minor Illusion is not much of a trick when every other High Elf you've met can do the same. But that Halfling that's pulling rabbits out of hats with an "independent observer" casting Detect Magic on him the whole time to ensure he's not cheating; that's a trick I'd pay to go see; it's making the impossible possible and the fact that magic exists wouldn't, I don't think, change the wonder a person feels at witnessing it.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm curious what the culture might be like in a world with real magic. How does this affect the nature of entertainment?

Look at Eberron: there are theaters using illusions in their plays (even 2 dragonmarked houses specialised in that...beside their spy buisiness), shapechanging...ahem...companionship services...even magic cinema (magic items that record everything that happens around them and then replay it as an illusion. Not to mention more mundane services enhanced by magic: Mending based repair services, Prestidigitation cleaners, inns where the food gets Purify Food and Water used on for guaranteed safety...

On the other hand, there are establishments that guarantee they aren't using any illusions and brothels that build their reputation on not using changelings

Though in Eberron, it's low level magic that's commonplace and high level casters are extremely rare. IIRC, casters in FR are overall more rare, but more powerful.

[comk59]

A level 7 illusionist can put on some pretty damn impressive shows with Major Image and Hallucinatory Terrain.

Crap that makes me want to play an illusionist playwright.

Read the Glass Thorns by Melanie Rawn. It's basically that.

But with magic opium.

[danpit2991]

Maybe, but would full-time magic-users stoop to performing real magic for the masses?

Raistlin Majere did

[Temperjoke]

Raistlin Majere did

He used sleight-of-hand, until he was promoted, so to speak, to full assistant to the wizard who taught at the school.

[unwise]

My thief toured magic schools, claiming to be able to cast undetectable spells. He teleported, conjured, disguise-selfed, used message etc etc all using slight of hand and deception. He had a good enough arcane skill to fake knowledge of the necessary spells and convince them that he had defeated all detect-magic spells. It worked wonders, he made good money, made lots of contacts and got offers to teach at universities...

...then the king sent assassins after him, as word reached his spy master and he decided that this knowledge was too dangerous to the status quo to exist.

[JackPhoenix]

Maybe, but would full-time magic-users stoop to performing real magic for the masses?

Of course they would, they are called Bards

[CNagy]

I seem to recall displays of magic being part of festival events in FR. If I'm not misremembering, there also used to be rules for nonlethal spell duels that spellcasters could use to compete with one another whilst awing the audience.

[M Placeholder]

At the start of Neverwinter Nights 2, before she is slain by a Githyanki, Amie takes part in a show of magic where she enlarges either the KC or Bevil, and then destroys a barrel with acid or cold.

I would imagine that if there was a large dead magic area in the Realms, and it had a sizeable population, then people would go to see a magic show in the next town over if they could. In places like Thay, maybe a magic show by the Red Wizards is a form of Bread and Circus to keep the Rashemi placated, and in other places, illusion contests would be held.

[Envyus]

At the start of Neverwinter Nights 2, before she is slain by a Githyanki, Amie takes part in a show of magic where she enlarges either the KC or Bevil, and then destroys a barrel with acid or cold.

I would imagine that if there was a large dead magic area in the Realms, and it had a sizeable population, then people would go to see a magic show in the next town over if they could. In places like Thay, maybe a magic show by the Red Wizards is a form of Bread and Circus to keep the Rashemi placated, and in other places, illusion contests would be held.

I doubt Thay would bother with stuff like Bread and Circus. If you are disobedient they will kill you and turn you into an undead slave that's not.

[danpit2991]

He used sleight-of-hand, until he was promoted, so to speak, to full assistant to the wizard who taught at the school.

yes he did but he also put on a traveling mage show and had red sequined robes

[Dalebert]

What made me think of the question was that I have a bladesinger and they get performance. I came up with a background of performer but I thought it made more sense that he was more of an agile circus performer--impressively tumbling, juggling, maybe sleight of hand, while a more charismatic ring leader worked the crowd. My wizard is average charisma but dexterous so it fits better. Also he has carpentry instead of disguise. I figure most circus performers have to pull their weight behind the scenes also. So the performer background means I can entertain people for free room and board at taverns and such and presumably my character enjoys that kind of thing even if he doesn't particularly need to save the small amount of coin because he's making his living adventuring.

But now he's a wizard and I was just thinking of how he'd use his magical talents to enhance his act. So far I'm actually leaning toward keeping it a secret and making people think he's even more impressive than he really is. For instance, he does whip tricks. He lights some candles and puts them out with a crack of his whip from 10 feet away, but it's fake. His Unseen Servant is putting them out. Then he snaps his whip at some coins balanced on their sides and sends them flying. Stuff like that.

However, the magic shows I've seen, the magic is often just an accompaniment to some jokes or stories. As some folks here have said, even if people are clearly aware you're using real magic, it could make a good show if presented well as part of a whole production. Like I have a goblin squire/assistant now and I could have him hide and get replaced with a Silent Image and cut him in half, then have his bottom half go running around the tavern while his top half screams (from his hiding spot nearby or with Minor Illusion).

So the input from folks has been helpful and gives me food for thought.

[Sigreid]

What made me think of the question was that I have a bladesinger and they get performance. I came up with a background of performer but I thought it made more sense that he was more of an agile circus performer--impressively tumbling, juggling, maybe sleight of hand, while a more charismatic ring leader worked the crowd. My wizard is average charisma but dexterous so it fits better. Also he has carpentry instead of disguise. I figure most circus performers have to pull their weight behind the scenes also. So the performer background means I can entertain people for free room and board at taverns and such and presumably my character enjoys that kind of thing even if he doesn't particularly need to save the small amount of coin because he's making his living adventuring.

But now he's a wizard and I was just thinking of how he'd use his magical talents to enhance his act. So far I'm actually leaning toward keeping it a secret and making people think he's even more impressive than he really is. For instance, he does whip tricks. He lights some candles and puts them out with a crack of his whip from 10 feet away, but it's fake. His Unseen Servant is putting them out. Then he snaps his whip at some coins balanced on their sides and sends them flying. Stuff like that.

However, the magic shows I've seen, the magic is often just an accompaniment to some jokes or stories. As some folks here have said, even if people are clearly aware you're using real magic, it could make a good show if presented well as part of a whole production. Like I have a goblin squire/assistant now and I could have him hide and get replaced with a Silent Image and cut him in half, then have his bottom half go running around the tavern while his top half screams (from his hiding spot nearby or with Minor Illusion).

So the input from folks has been helpful and gives me food for thought.

Personally I see the bladesinger's primary performance platform to be dance. Bladesinger to me just screams that they're moving to a song only they hear. Performance isn't specific in 5e though. I think it really just means "you can engage an audience in whatever shenanigans you're up to to entertain them".

[Dalebert]

I think it really just means "you can engage an audience in whatever shenanigans you're up to to entertain them".

That is what it means. Someone of an entertainer background picks three specialties but that appears to have no mechanical difference.