Why was wizards so weird about the Scent feat?

[daremetoidareyo]

Nezumi (OA) and Lupine (drcomp) and flux adept all get this nerfed but not quite scent ability. Dromite actually gets scent, but then has a +1 LA. Is scent somehow gamebreaking in such a way that it has to be prevented from falling into PCs hands?

[nedz]

Because Scent is Track on Steroids, and Track is very powerful.

Did I need to use Blue here ?

[daremetoidareyo]

Because Scent is Track on Steroids, and Track is very powerful.

Did I need to use Blue here ?

Surely, track is powerful and all. I mean it allows you to complete like, every quest, so long as you bring people whose feats are actually devoted to doing more than finding bad guys.

But unless you're in an all-invisible enemies and dopplegangers impersonating PCs campaign, scent is like a half feat. Somewhere in the utility scale above mobility but below weapon focus.

Game designers do some weird things...

[AvatarVecna]

For a long while, Scent was both free tracking (even if you sucked at it) and free thief detection (since you can't hide and move silently your way past a good nose). That second thing is so good, they eventually decided that thieves needed a way to sneak past a guard dog (and anything else) and came up with the Darkstalker feat.

Long story short, WotC has never known what they were doing in regards to balance in 3.5, and this is just more evidence to join the mountain of other examples.

[Flickerdart]

There's nothing more powerful than being able to defend yourself with a mechanical ability when being accused that He Who Smelt It, Dealt It.

[nedz]

I had Scent nullify one of my Silent Images once — instantly, automatically and at range.

I was only trying to buy some time whilst we scrambled up some trees to escape from some wolves.

To be honest: that DM didn't like illusions.


We don't know what the designers where thinking, drinking or smoking when they wrote several parts of 3.5. On the whole they did a pretty good job, but this isn't one of them. I've always house-ruled this downwards somewhat, in terms of power, I have a nose for cheese.

[(Un)Inspired]

There's nothing more powerful than being able to defend yourself with a mechanical ability when being accused that He Who Smelt It, Dealt It.

That's why Wizard is such a powerful class. The ability to prepare both Stinking Cloud and Nondetection they can always deny it; even when they supply it.

[Willie the Duck]

I don't think even they had a consistent idea regarding what scent could or couldn't do, and some of the high-end interpretations--detect invisible assailants, track or detect hidden without a specified roll-against (implying it was automatic) can really mess up a low level game (or any really, depending). If they had sat down and decided what it could and couldn't do, then they could have properly balanced it such that it could be taken with a feat or a 0 LA creature.

Of course, neither low-light vision nor darkvision are available as core feats, so the early thinking seems to be that sensory modification is powerful.

[nedz]

This is what the SRD actually says:

Scent

This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.

The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source.

A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.

It seems to work like Sight, even upwind (albeit at half range).
Finding an invisible person seems to take 2 move actions - though you can pin-point them.
You can only Track with it if you also have Track, but it is a straight Wisdom role. Presumably this is because monsters, bizarrely, often don't have survival.
Carrying a water skin seems to make you immune to being tracked by Scent though.

[HolyDraconus]

This is what the SRD actually says:


It seems to work like Sight, even upwind (albeit at half range).
Finding an invisible person seems to take 2 move actions - though you can pin-point them.
You can only Track with it if you also have Track, but it is a straight Wisdom role. Presumably this is because monsters, bizarrely, often don't have survival.
Carrying a water skin seems to make you immune to being tracked by Scent though.


So cast water breathing. Or have a ring of it. This is silly.