Calculating XP per CR

[Milo the Gnome]

In a bookstore the other day I found out just how easy 5th edition makes it to determine how much XP each antagonist is worth, and how much total XP a sufficiently challenging encounter should have.

The corresponding section in the 3.5 dmg (pg 38), is a big table that's less than clear.

How do you guys calculate
1) Total XP for multiple CR encounters?
2) How much XP to then dive among your players?

[Troacctid]

I don't. XP math is a giant pain in the neck in 3.5. Furthermore, CR is often a poor reflection of the encounter's actual difficulty, especially if it's solved nonviolently, and I often use custom monsters and traps that obviously don't come with a predetermined CR. It's much easier to use milestone level-ups instead.

[Beheld]

In a bookstore the other day I found out just how easy 5th edition makes it to determine how much XP each antagonist is worth, and how much total XP a sufficiently challenging encounter should have.

The corresponding section in the 3.5 dmg (pg 38), is a big table that's less than clear.

How do you guys calculate
1) Total XP for multiple CR encounters?
2) How much XP to then dive among your players?

You are supposed to add all the monsters XP together, and then divide that amoungst the party evenly. I personally just level them after 4-5 days of encounters, since pretty much none of the XP math ever adds anything to the game.

[Bobby Baratheon]

The d20 srd has a calculator for determining xp awards recieved based on CR, mitigating conditions, and the number and level of players. It makes my life as a DM somewhat easier, though. It also tells you the appropriate treasure value.

[OldTrees1]

In a bookstore the other day I found out just how easy 5th edition makes it to determine how much XP each antagonist is worth, and how much total XP a sufficiently challenging encounter should have.

The corresponding section in the 3.5 dmg (pg 38), is a big table that's less than clear.

How do you guys calculate
1) Total XP for multiple CR encounters?
2) How much XP to then dive among your players?

Step 1: How difficult is the encounter:
2 Monsters of CR X = 1 Monster of CR + 2
1 Monster of CR X and one Monster of CR + 2 = 1 Monster of CR + 3
While these 2 equations are not exactly RAW for all cases, they are very good at approximating the table and make sense with the exponential threat level CR is meant to represent in 3.5.

Step 2: Reward XP
IIRC you look up the xp rewards each player would get for each monster on the xp chart. However since I never have unequal leveled PCs, I just:
Pretend the encounter is a single monster and just give an equal share to each PC.

Step 3: Remember that WotC doesn't know how to assign CR to monsters
This is an art that takes experience and practice.

[Zancloufer]

The SRD's Encounter Calculator is pretty good. Though you have to figure out the CR of things. It's not as borked as people say it is. Just try to make something that has CR comparable to the party and manually check things like "How hard is it to kill" and Burst damage. If your CR 10 Giant does 2x the damage of the party "tank" on a full attack, need to tone that down. Bit of number fudging doesn't hurt here. Also CR is only truly borked with non-associated class levels.

If you want to play it a little looser you could always award EXP based off how "Hard" you though to fight would be. Encounter Calculator has a fairly easy formula to follow that way.

-"Easy" fights (Mechanically CR being 1-4 lower than party) should grant ~3-7% of EXP needed to level.

-"Challenging" Fights (CR is roughly equal to party) should be ~8-10%. Worth noting that "Challenging" fights according to the books roughly comes down to 4 level x party members smacking a level x NPC. (Yes that is a 4v1).

-"Very Difficult" Fights (CR is 1-4 higher) generally grant 12-30% of EXP needed to level. Also worth nothing "Mirror Match" comes in here, as in 4 NPCs/Monsters who's individual CR is equal to a party members. So fighting the Linear Guild for example

-"Overpowering" is (CR is 5+) should be 40%+ of EXP needed to level.

Also the EXP needed to level is about equal to level of PC*1000. Makes for some easy math. So for example, a level 10 Party fighting something "Easy" should grant each PC around 300-700 EXP. A "Very Difficult" one (like a Mirror Party) would count in at around 3k exp.

[Quertus]

In a bookstore the other day I found out just how easy 5th edition makes it to determine how much XP each antagonist is worth, and how much total XP a sufficiently challenging encounter should have.

The corresponding section in the 3.5 dmg (pg 38), is a big table that's less than clear.

How do you guys calculate
1) Total XP for multiple CR encounters?
2) How much XP to then dive among your players?

Having never looked at 5e xp rules, I cannot compare them, but, in 3.0, you take a challenge, and compare it to the average party level. Look it up on the table, where cr meets level, that's how many xp it is worth. Divide by number of party members. That's how much each character earns. Repeat for each challenge.

In 3.5, you take a challenge, and compare it to each character's level individually. Look it up on the table, where cr meets level, that's how many xp it is worth. Divide by number of party members. That's how much that character earns. Repeat for each challenge.

[nedz]

The CR system is all over the place in terms of individual creatures.
The CR system does not reflect circumstances of the encounter.
The CR system does not reflect the fact that magic > melee.
The CR system over-rates horde type encounters.


I stopped using it a long time ago.

In one game I run: the party level at the appropriate time.

In the other game I'm running: I hand out an estimate of the xp at an appropriate time.

[BioCharge]

I found the level-independent XP system from Unearthed Arcana to be pretty useful. Keeps things a lot simpler and makes it easier to factor in multiple-CR encounters.

[Milo the Gnome]

To the people who mentioned the D20 SRD online, yeah that's what I've been using exclusively up to now to determine XP rewards and treasure values.

So what's a good way to determine how much XP each monster is worth? Look in the table in the DMG for XP by CR for 1 monster and approximate the party level?
This becomes tricky since my party's levels (due to absences) are all over the place.

[Grod_The_Giant]

If you want to sidestep CR but not the XP system,

Calculate out how much experience a character needs to advance from level X to level X+1.
Divide by the number of encounters you want before they level up (~13 is the RAW standard, I believe)
Use that as your baseline reward, increasing it or decreasing it based on how hard the fight is meant to be. Say 50% for an easy fight, 150% for a hard fight, and 200% (or more!) for a boss battle.

[Beheld]

To the people who mentioned the D20 SRD online, yeah that's what I've been using exclusively up to now to determine XP rewards and treasure values.

So what's a good way to determine how much XP each monster is worth? Look in the table in the DMG for XP by CR for 1 monster and approximate the party level?
This becomes tricky since my party's levels (due to absences) are all over the place.

Hmm. Uh, well I could try to describe some of the formulas for CR XP, but the honest truth is that lower level PCs should get more XP in addition to needing less XP specifically to get them to the same level. All your players should pretty much always either be the same level, or one level lower than the highest person, and even that should be quickly fixed.

The formulas work out to 13.3333 encounters equal to your level to level up. So if the party level is 6, and you have a level 7, a two level 6s, and a level 5, then the level 5 should probably level in 12 encounters, the level 7 in 15, and the level 6s in 13.3333. Now obviously, if you use higher EL encounters it should take fewer to level, and if you use lower level ones, it should take longer. If you have those in proportion of about equal amounts, it should cancel out.


If you want to sidestep CR but not the XP system,

Calculate out how much experience a character needs to advance from level X to level X+1.
Divide by the number of encounters you want before they level up (~13 is the RAW standard, I believe)
Use that as your baseline reward, increasing it or decreasing it based on how hard the fight is meant to be. Say 50% for an easy fight, 150% for a hard fight, and 200% (or more!) for a boss battle.


Wouldn't that be bypassing the XP system and not the CR system?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Wouldn't that be bypassing the XP system and not the CR system?
No? :smallconfused: Bypassing the XP system means using milestone leveling, or some other method where you don't get xp; bypassing the CR system means you don't look at written CR when deciding how much experience to give. I'm suggesting giving about 1/13th of a level's worth of experience for completing an encounter, with a bit more or less if it's particularly easy or hard. That's keeping XP, but not CR.

[OldTrees1]

No? :smallconfused: Bypassing the XP system means using milestone leveling, or some other method where you don't get xp; bypassing the CR system means you don't look at written CR when deciding how much experience to give. I'm suggesting giving about 1/13th of a level's worth of experience for completing an encounter, with a bit more or less if it's particularly easy or hard. That's keeping XP, but not CR.

CR (challenge rating) is the concept of modifying rewards based upon the rating the challenge. Your "a bit more or less if it's particularly easy or hard" is the core of the CR system. However describing it as "bypassing the CR system" is a good way of describing it even if not technically accurate*.

*Yes, sometimes a technically accurate description is worse/less accurate communication than a technically inaccurate description. Truth is stranger than fiction :smallbiggrin:.

[Beheld]

No? :smallconfused: Bypassing the XP system means using milestone leveling, or some other method where you don't get xp; bypassing the CR system means you don't look at written CR when deciding how much experience to give. I'm suggesting giving about 1/13th of a level's worth of experience for completing an encounter, with a bit more or less if it's particularly easy or hard. That's keeping XP, but not CR.

To me "bypassing the CR system" means not using the CR system when designing encounters.

[Milo the Gnome]

A big thanks to everyone for their feedback.
This kind of math is the least interesting and (pun not intended) least rewarding part of the game.

Grod that's a brilliant manner of looking at things that simplifies the math required and herds everyone towards similar levels, I may end up adopting this when calculating some of the battles and XP rewards.

Thanks again!