The irony of the situation facing the world is

[Grizl' Bjorn]

The world wouldn't be in its current dire/existential threat predicament if Elan hand't said: "Fine! Lord Banjo never wanted to be in your stupid pantheon anyway!"

Presumably Banjo would count as a demigod. Unless of course Banjo was going to vote yes- which is frankly all too possible.

(Apologies if someone else has already pointed this out.)

[Darth Paul]

That's only ONE of the ironies involving Elan, the Order as a whole, and the Gates. I tuned in to your post to see which one you were zooming in on. :smallbiggrin:

Others I can think of are (just off the top of my head):

Elan himself being personally irresponsible (not a typo) for the destruction of Dorukan's Gate.

The people tasked with defending the Gates that preserve the world have actively destroyed not one, but two of them. (Granted, one was before they knew what they were or before they had the task, so that's not a fair criticism, but still ironic.)

The Order, who have sworn to protect the world, delivered Vamp Durkon to the Godsmoot, so he could vote to destroy the world.

Whichever way it comes out, the world will most likely never know. The gods would likely never announce that they averted a disaster, due to the amount of panic which is likely (given the size of the disaster under discussion); if the world is destroyed and remade, most of the people of the new world would most certainly not be told about it (just as very few know the story of the Snarl this time around); and if the Snarl manages to destroy the world and the gods along with it, well, from what we know there will be nothing and nobody left to know anything at all. (Although there's that planet inside the Snarl, that we still have to learn more about...)

[Mx56]

It's made pretty clear* that deities need a divine caster of sufficiently high level to have representation in the Godsmoot, otherwise, Hel could have arbitrarily designated any old undead as her high priest and sent it off to the moot. Don't think it's ever explicitly stated why, but I assume that Summon Proxy is a spell that requires a reasonably high level caster. So in order to have a vote, Banjo would need to both be a deity of one of the 3 main pantheons and have a high level divine caster among his worshipers.

*"Hel's voice has remained unheard in these proceedings due to her lack of appropriately leveled clergy" - comic #995, can't post links yet

[Grizl' Bjorn]

Ahh yes, but if Banjo were a demi-god, he could simply turn up in person, no?

And it seems likely he would start off as a demi-god, since he'd be low on the power scale (assuming that's how demi gods work in this universe, which, I concede, is an assumption.)

[Indarra]

Demi-gods also need priests.
Oh, you mean because he's a puppet.

[Peelee]

Ahh yes, but if Banjo were a demi-god, he could simply turn up in person, no?

And it seems likely he would start off as a demi-god, since he'd be low on the power scale (assuming that's how demi gods work in this universe, which, I concede, is an assumption.)

Why would demi-gods get privileges that full deities don't have?

[Bulldog Psion]

That's only ONE of the ironies involving Elan, the Order as a whole, and the Gates. I tuned in to your post to see which one you were zooming in on. :smallbiggrin:

Yes, the story is pretty much "The Order of the Stick creates a world-destroying mess through horrible bungling, then attempts to clean said mess up." :smallbiggrin:

[Grizl' Bjorn]

It seems I was wrong about the demigods we've seen voting directly- I read too much into the fact that they don't project an image and so assumed that the figures that walked in in panel 1012 were the demigods themselves, my mistake.

However- I still think that if Banjo had become a demigod of the Northern pantheon he would be able to vote (he didn't, so it's a (gods)moot point). My reasoning is that the reason gods need proxies to vote is so that they have a way of actually getting to the conclave- it seems one can't manifest there without a high priest. Being that Banjo is already incarnated in physical form I think this would take care of the problem as he needs no proxy to manifest.

It really depends on whether you think the reason one needs a high priest to attend is logistical (normally no other way to manifest) or political (it's a requirement to prove you deserve a vote.)

[Pyrous]

It seems I was wrong about the demigods we've seen voting directly- I read too much into the fact that they don't project an image and so assumed that the figures that walked in in panel 1012 were the demigods themselves, my mistake.

However- I still think that if Banjo had become a demigod of the Northern pantheon he would be able to vote (he didn't, so it's a (gods)moot point). My reasoning is that the reason gods need proxies to vote is so that they have a way of actually getting to the conclave- it seems one can't manifest there without a high priest. Being that Banjo is already incarnated in physical form I think this would take care of the problem as he needs no proxy to manifest.

It really depends on whether you think the reason one needs a high priest to attend is logistical (normally no other way to manifest) or political (it's a requirement to prove you deserve a vote.)

This is the reason for the High Priest attendance.

Regarding Banjo's physical form, I think the puppet is simply an artifact that his Prophet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0557.html) and followers use to better connect to their god, not a physical embodiment of Banjo. After all, Banjo is a state of mind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html), which by definition can't have a physical form.

[Grizl' Bjorn]

"This is the reason for the High Priest attendance."

That reason is compatible with a god participating if they could make it there in some other way (apart from summon proxy), so it comes down to whether the puppet itself is Banjo, or a mere holy artifact of his divine presence.

I tend to think that the puppet is the god, and not merely a symbol thereof. Still plot irrelevant/only a point of irony though since Banjo 'refused' to join the Northern gods.

[Peelee]

......ok, I'll bite. How is "the gods no longer meet in person" compatible with "the gods may meet in person?"

[Pyrous]

"This is the reason for the High Priest attendance."

That reason is compatible with a god participating if they could make it there in some other way (apart from summon proxy), so it comes down to whether the puppet itself is Banjo, or a mere holy artifact of his divine presence.

I tend to think that the puppet is the god, and not merely a symbol thereof. Still plot irrelevant/only a point of irony though since Banjo 'refused' to join the Northern gods.

The point is the Godsmoot is supposed to be a neutral meeting ground. For this to happen, every god has to be there, or none at all. The gods chose that none of them would be at the godsmoot, attending by proxy instead.

So even if Banjo was a member of the Northern Pantheon, and the puppet is Banjo himself, he would still need a High Priest capable of casting summon proxy.

If, however, the puppet is merely an artifact that enables him to manifest, he wouldn't really be there. In that case, if he was a member of the Northern Pantheon, maybe he could still vote, substituting the puppet for a proxy.

[Darth Paul]

Yes, the story is pretty much "The Order of the Stick creates a world-destroying mess through horrible bungling, then attempts to clean said mess up." :smallbiggrin:

Bulldog, I may need to find room for a third quote on my signature line...

[Reboot]

Don't think it's ever explicitly stated why, but I assume that Summon Proxy is a spell that requires a reasonably high level caster.


Uh... Only Heimdall, Loki and Hel's priests cast Summon Proxy - i.e., the three that have giant holograms (proxies) walking around. The other gods just possessed their priests, same as the [representatives of the] other pantheons did with Vel & t'other guy.

(Note that Veldrina not only didn't cast a spell, but was interrupted in mid-sentence by the posession while clearly having no idea she was about to get ZOTted!]


Yes, the story is pretty much "The Order of the Stick creates a world-destroying mess through horrible bungling, then attempts to clean said mess up." :smallbiggrin:

But what would have happened otherwise? They'd have spent more time looting the dungeon, while Xykon armed a raisin and marched on Azure City. After that...well, maybe Ghost of Soon *might* have finished off Xykon and Redcloak without (a slightly more sane) Miko interfering, but a lot of pieces may have been shunted around - for instance, Miko wouldn't have been riding back for them to catch and use for scrying-on.

[A.A.King]

I don't think this is the irony of the situation, for you make one false assumption: That Banjo would vote against hel. All evidence points that he would get manipulated by and side with Hel like most other demi gods. Remember: He is just another puppet...