Megamind build

[FocusWolf413]

I decided to watch Megamind again today and started wondering what his build in 3.PF would look like.

Here's what I have so far:
LE
Blue
Artificer 9 Gunsmith 1
Str: 10ish
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 20
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

Max ranks in Know (Tactical, Physical, Tech, Earth/Life) and some craft skills.
A few ranks in diplomacy, disguise, bluff, intimidate, and acrobatics.

He'd need to pick up craft construct somewhere.

What else?

[AvatarVecna]

Yeah, high Int/Cha artificer sounds right; make sure to maximize Spellcraft/UMD, and maybe dip ranger for a touch of BAB and Favored Enemy (Human), and you'll be good.

Oh yeah, and IN B4 Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel...

[FocusWolf413]

Yeah, high Int/Cha artificer sounds right; make sure to maximize Spellcraft/UMD, and maybe dip ranger for a touch of BAB and Favored Enemy (Human), and you'll be good.

Oh yeah, and IN B4 Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel...

How did I forget UMD and spellcraft?

I was hoping someone would summon the Serpent of War.

[Strigon]

Don't forget to take the leadership feat!

[FocusWolf413]

I'd say leadership is a dm fiat bonus feat in this case. He didn't take it; he earned it.

[Red Fel]

Oh yeah, and IN B4 Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel...

*yawn* Yeah, yeah, I'm here, I'm...

... really? Int and Cha-based?

No, I totally agree with the Int-based Artificer goodness. Totally on-board with that.

But Charisma? Okay, look. He has a device for disguises, so that's basically an invention that gives a massive circumstance bonus to disguise.

He also stinks at disguises, in that he's not very good at keeping to them. ("Pretty sneaky, sis, but there's only one person I know that calls this town 'Metrocity'.") And while he has a fantastic grasp of the aesthetics of villainy, ("Presentation!") he has a poor grasp of human interaction. He's awkward, stilted, and shy; he's utterly poor at convincing others of his will; and perhaps worst of all for a supervillain, nobody takes him seriously.

I'd actually take the extra points in Cha and put them into Dex and Con. Dex is obvious - he like-a de blaster - but Con makes good sense. Why? Dude can take abuse. He makes a career of it. Getting knocked around by people much, much stronger than him is basically one of his defining traits. Con that sucker.

As for Leadership, you have two options. Option one, take Leadership, Minion is your big follower, and those adorable bots are your little ones. Option the second, the heck with the bots, take Dragon Cohort and fluff Minion as a Wyrmling. Small(ish), intelligent, obedient, and ever-so-often useful.

[FocusWolf413]

But Charisma? Okay, look. He has a device for disguises, so that's basically an invention that gives a massive circumstance bonus to disguise.

He also stinks at disguises, in that he's not very good at keeping to them. ("Pretty sneaky, sis, but there's only one person I know that calls this town 'Metrocity'.") And while he has a fantastic grasp of the aesthetics of villainy, ("Presentation!") he has a poor grasp of human interaction. He's awkward, stilted, and shy; he's utterly poor at convincing others of his will; and perhaps worst of all for a supervillain, nobody takes him seriously.


Charisma is more than just persuasiveness. It's also his presence and his force of personality. Say what you will, but you can't deny he has those traits.

While it is true that his social skills with normal people are crap, when among prisoners or the warden, he loses that awkwardness. He was raised in a prison, so he knows how to talk to people commonly found there. That's easily covered by a refluffing of the Blue's pariah ability.

Also, people in Metrocity do take him seriously. The only people who don't are the ones who know him personally. Roxanne gets kidnapped every other week, Metroman knows it's all a game, the Warden knows he's mostly harmless, and Minion is his best friend. All of the cops and regular civilians have a healthy amount of respect for him. In the "Highway to Hell" scene, the police are literally shaking with fear. Two words is all it takes for them to drop their weapons and surrender.

You do bring up a convincing point, however. A charisma of 14 (taking into account the -1/+1 from pariah) and a constitution of 16 would be more suitable. That puts him at an Olympic level of dexterity, a superhuman level of constitution, and a respectable amount of charisma.

[Red Fel]

Charisma is more than just persuasiveness. It's also his presence and his force of personality. Say what you will, but you can't deny he has those traits.

I can and I do. He's a wimp, and not just physically.


While it is true that his social skills with normal people are crap, when among prisoners or the warden, he loses that awkwardness. He was raised in a prison, so he knows how to talk to people commonly found there. That's easily covered by a refluffing of the Blue's pariah ability.

Well, let's be clear. He was raised in a prison, and used by people there. It's not clear that anybody, even the other prisoners, actually cared about him. If anything, the prologue seems to suggest that he was obliviously, eagerly manipulated by those around him. That's not his force of personality imposed on those around him, it's theirs. Then we move onto his childhood, where it is abundantly obvious that he could not manipulate, intimidate, or otherwise influence those around him in any meaningful way.


Also, people in Metrocity do take him seriously. The only people who don't are the ones who know him personally. Roxanne gets kidnapped every other week, Metroman knows it's all a game, the Warden knows he's mostly harmless, and Minion is his best friend. All of the cops and regular civilians have a healthy amount of respect for him. In the "Highway to Hell" scene, the police are literally shaking with fear. Two words is all it takes for them to drop their weapons and surrender.

Not exactly. They have absolute confidence in their hero. They're used to Megamind's shenanigans. Yes, he's dangerous, but not too dangerous. Everyone is shocked when he wins, himself included, and that last bit also speaks a lot to his own confidence (or lack thereof).


You do bring up a convincing point, however. A charisma of 14 (taking into account the -1/+1 from pariah) and a constitution of 16 would be more suitable. That puts him at an Olympic level of dexterity, a superhuman level of constitution, and a respectable amount of charisma.

I still think he deserves a little less than a "respectable" amount of Charisma, but fair enough. Bottom line, I see his stat priority as: (1) super-genius intellect, (2) ability to take abuse, (3) ability to shoot with reasonable accuracy.

And as an aside, I'm also bitter about the ending. They could have really turned the expectation on its head by making him a mascot villain, and instead they... Ugh.

I am whelmed. Not even that. I am less-than-whelmed.

[FocusWolf413]

Ah, I get it. I understand why you're right, but I still disagree with you.

The amount that I hate the ending is unfathmble- unfathmebl- without fathom. Why did everyone just forgive him? SuperHal was his fault. He just performed a little damage control. What the hell?

[AvatarVecna]

Ah, I get it. I understand why you're right, but I still disagree with you.

The amount that I hate the ending is unfathmble- unfathmebl- without fathom. Why did everyone just forgive him? SuperHal was his fault. He just performed a little damage control. What the hell?

I might be recalling the movie incorrectly, but I don't recall everybody knowing he was responsible for that. All they saw was a new guy with superpowers facing Megamind, and destroying the city in the process, and Megamind saving the day. They didn't know the behind-the-scenes stuff like the audience did, because they weren't seeing it from Megamind's perspective.

[FocusWolf413]

That doesn't change anything about what he did in the past. Remember, he had 88 life sentences.

[Red Fel]

The amount that I hate the ending is unfathmble- unfathmebl- without fathom. Why did everyone just forgive him? SuperHal was his fault. He just performed a little damage control. What the hell?


I might be recalling the movie incorrectly, but I don't recall everybody knowing he was responsible for that. All they saw was a new guy with superpowers facing Megamind, and destroying the city in the process, and Megamind saving the day. They didn't know the behind-the-scenes stuff like the audience did, because they weren't seeing it from Megamind's perspective.

As much as I agree with that, that's not even the part I'm talking about.

Why does he have to turn?

I mean, in Wreck-It Ralph, the "bad guy" realizes that there is a place for "bad guys." He doesn't have to be a hero. Admittedly, he learns that he still has to be loved and be a decent person, but it's a step in the right direction, right?

I like stories where the villain learns a lesson, and that lesson isn't stop being a villain. It's be a villain with better publicity.

Megamind (the movie) could have done this. They could have. Megamind (the character) has proven capable of beating supers, and has at least proven himself likeable. Metrocity could have built an industry around supers challenging their resident villain. It could have been awesome. He could have found satisfaction in doing what he always said he was good at. Instead, they decide that, to achieve his destiny, he has to become the hero.

The indignity! The insult!

Oh, isn't that cute? He's pretending to be a scary bad guy. "Stick 'em up! Ha ha, just kidding." Let's all laugh at how everything that defined him has been ignored. He's great now!

Yeah, no. Be a villain. Be awkward and silly and have a crush on the girl, sure, but be a freaking villain.

Mic drop.

[FocusWolf413]

**does the Red Fel thing**

But remember, it was a movie for kids. They couldn't just teach kids that being evil is okay if everyone likes you. Megamind came out two years before Wreck it Ralph. The whole "evil protagonist" thing was relatively knew as far as kid's movies went, so they needed to be cautious.

You're absolutely right. They shouldn't have gone back on his entire backstory, personality, and defining features at the end. It was just the safe thing to do.

[Jowgen]

After much consideration and making a point of re-watching the movie plus the sequel short, I have come to the conclusion that Red Fel is generally correct about Megamind's relatively low charisma.

He is consistently bad at bluffing (from "the spider was intentional!" to "never come back to metrocity!"). The reason he wins over the city is because he has proven himself with actions, not because of Charisma. The reason he gets the girl isn't because he was charming, it's because circumstance gave her a chance to get to know him.

Now, admittedly; he is great at presentation; but I think that balances out his lack of interpersonal skills. So on average, a flat 10 is probably where I'd place him. His gadgets, music and training give him a circumstance bonuses to dramatic entrances, his reputation (and blue skin, not that there's anything wrong with that) gives him a penalty on general interaction; so it all levels out.

Wisdom and Str are obviously dump-stats. Dex should be high based on his ranged combat precision, dodging ability and general fine motor skills. In terms of Con, I am of two minds, but would settle for medium-high, as per Red Fel's argument.

On a side-note, any Megamind character needs at least a dozen spider-thieves (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061009a)

[Red Fel]

After much consideration and making a point of re-watching the movie plus the sequel short, I have come to the conclusion that Red Fel is generally correct about Megamind's relatively low charisma.

Yet another person acknowledges that I am right. All is well with the world.


But remember, it was a movie for kids. They couldn't just teach kids that being evil is okay if everyone likes you. Megamind came out two years before Wreck it Ralph. The whole "evil protagonist" thing was relatively knew as far as kid's movies went, so they needed to be cautious.

You're absolutely right. They shouldn't have gone back on his entire backstory, personality, and defining features at the end. It was just the safe thing to do.

Safe, perhaps. This is part of why I enjoy Japanese animation. There are series - action-comedy series for kids, in a genre where the idea of "romance" between the male and female leads is awkward and frequently taboo - that still confront complex subjects like good and evil, death, war, and so forth. In one, for example...

One of the recurring antagonists is a man who calls himself Papillon. Although not as powerful as the other humanoid homunculi, he is unique in that he does not need to consume human flesh to live. (A trait he attributes to the fact that he has never envied humanity, but in fact loathes it.) He is very much a mad scientist, very willing to kill people, and generally sociopathic.

In the end, he doesn't reform, or at least doesn't appear to. Instead, he embraces his mysterious celebrity status. He still loves to use people, and stands above them, reveling in them chanting his name. "No, you have to say it with love! Papi~llon!"

Here is a character who does not redeem, at least not on camera. He is still snarky, cruel, and sociopathic. He's still a manipulator. Villain with good publicity, in a kid-oriented format. Yes, it can be done.

[FocusWolf413]

The game goes for Code Geass.

Lelouch is a horrible person. Yes, he's a successful person who fights to his last breath to end oppression in the world, but he's still horrible. He's a conniving, lying, backstabbing, self centered, manipulative piece of -- right, gotta watch the language. He steals people’s will, betrays everyone who cared about or trusted him, and he's absolutely heartless. Those same traits, combined with his tactical mind, allow him to lead the revolution. When people are no longer of use to him, he kills them off. At the end, when his skill set as a revolutionary is no longer needed, he doesn't change. He becomes the most despised figure in the world and has his former best friend dethrone him by running a sword through his chest. There is no redemption, no change in his ways, no becoming less evil.

[Red Fel]

The game goes for Code Geass.

Is Code Geass really shounen, though? Busou Renkin is, quite clearly, and it's that shounen nature that allows me to point to it and say, "This is aimed at kids, look at the thing that is aimed at kids but still has mature concepts." But sometimes I think Code Geass is a bit too intellectual, more in the vein of Death Note. And it's a bit disingenuous to take something that isn't necessarily aimed at kids, and argue that it shows that we can present mature concepts - like non-redeemable villains going on to live happy, productive villain lives - to kids.

EDIT: Duh! Treasure Island! The original! Treasure freaking Island! Moral ambiguity in a classic young adult coming-of-age adventure novel! Silver is iredeemably evil. He's treacherous, crafty, and best of all, escapes with loot to fight another day. Despite his genuine fondness for the protagonist, he remains a villain, up to his eventual escape.

Robert Louis Stephenson could do it, is my point. Why couldn't Megamind?

[Draco_Lord]

Is Code Geass really shounen, though? Busou Renkin is, quite clearly, and it's that shounen nature that allows me to point to it and say, "This is aimed at kids, look at the thing that is aimed at kids but still has mature concepts." But sometimes I think Code Geass is a bit too intellectual, more in the vein of Death Note. And it's a bit disingenuous to take something that isn't necessarily aimed at kids, and argue that it shows that we can present mature concepts - like non-redeemable villains going on to live happy, productive villain lives - to kids.

EDIT: Duh! Treasure Island! The original! Treasure freaking Island! Moral ambiguity in a classic young adult coming-of-age adventure novel! Silver is iredeemably evil. He's treacherous, crafty, and best of all, escapes with loot to fight another day. Despite his genuine fondness for the protagonist, he remains a villain, up to his eventual escape.

Robert Louis Stephenson could do it, is my point. Why couldn't Megamind?

Death Note is actually more of a shounen series then above it, given that it was printed in Weekly Shounen Jump, along side such series as Bleach, One Piece, Naruto, and so on. So kids would certainly have a chance to read it.

[Flickerdart]

Of all the villain arcs I've seen, I still like Dr. Horrible's the best.


Doctor Horrible doesn't win - he doesn't get the girl, he doesn't even defeat Captain Hammer on his own terms, his gadgets didn't work properly in the end. He doesn't rule the world, there's no anarchy, he doesn't even get Australia. But he is indicted into the council of Evil. He becomes a supervillain among supervillians, to a degree that even he despises.

Doctor Horrible loses. But Evil wins.

[Strigon]

Of all the villain arcs I've seen, I still like Dr. Horrible's the best.


Doctor Horrible doesn't win - he doesn't get the girl, he doesn't even defeat Captain Hammer on his own terms, his gadgets didn't work properly in the end. He doesn't rule the world, there's no anarchy, he doesn't even get Australia. But he is indicted into the council of Evil. He becomes a supervillain among supervillians, to a degree that even he despises.

Doctor Horrible loses. But Evil wins.


Did Doctor Horrible really want anarchy in his endgame? I always thought he just wanted enough disorder that the current way of the world couldn't possibly continue, at which point he would step in and take things over.
But yeah, I agree with you; off the top of my head, I can't think of any villains I like more than DH - though a few come close.

[Flickerdart]

Did Doctor Horrible really want anarchy in his endgame? I always thought he just wanted enough disorder that the current way of the world couldn't possibly continue, at which point he would step in and take things over.
Anarchy – that I run
It’s Dr. Horrible’s turn
You people all have to learn
This world is going to burn

It's certainly a valid interpretation that he wanted to rescue the world from the chaos he himself created, but given how idealistic Billy is, my personal thoughts are that he just didn't really think his endgame through and basing his goals on both of the classic villain plans, to rule the world and to destroy it.

[Strigon]

Anarchy – that I run
It’s Dr. Horrible’s turn
You people all have to learn
This world is going to burn

It's certainly a valid interpretation that he wanted to rescue the world from the chaos he himself created, but given how idealistic Billy is, my personal thoughts are that he just didn't really think his endgame through and basing his goals on both of the classic villain plans, to rule the world and to destroy it.

I always thought it was his opinion that the world was an awful, corrupt place - as he showed in On The Rise. Naturally, this was triggered by Penny getting the Hammer, but I think he's sort of always felt that way; "The world's a mess, and I just need to... rule it".
I just figured his wish was to completely eradicate all traces of the old world, to pave way for a new one, where he'd rule it and make it "better".

Though there's certainly enough ambiguity in the film for his actual motives to be debatable, that's certain.

[Flickerdart]

Fair - but the important part is that he fails at that goal, too.

[Triskavanski]

The game goes for Code Geass.

Lelouch is a horrible person. Yes, he's a successful person who fights to his last breath to end oppression in the world, but he's still horrible. He's a conniving, lying, backstabbing, self centered, manipulative piece of -- right, gotta watch the language. He steals people’s will, betrays everyone who cared about or trusted him, and he's absolutely heartless. Those same traits, combined with his tactical mind, allow him to lead the revolution. When people are no longer of use to him, he kills them off. At the end, when his skill set as a revolutionary is no longer needed, he doesn't change. He becomes the most despised figure in the world and has his former best friend dethrone him by running a sword through his chest. There is no redemption, no change in his ways, no becoming less evil.


Well that depends..

Once he was run through, If I'm not mistaken he didn't actually die. The Xero character did however, and he shed it off so that everything is now set that there would be no more revolutions.

Redemption there might be there. Maybe. I dunno I kinda fell out of it.

[Draco_Lord]

Actually, thinking about it, given all the talk about Megamind's Charisma level vs his show man ship. I think that can be explained with a high Perform Skill, probably acting, oratory, or something like that. He loves his speeches, has great showmanship, but he rarely actually convinces people of much, so low or no diplomacy, or even bluff (maybe a little for the occasional time he 'rolls high')

[illyahr]

Oh, absolutely has ranks in perform. He can grandstand with the best of them, he just can't convince people to anything or make anyone believe his exaggerations.