Help With My Dragon

[Vincent Dragon]

I think of true and epic dragons with only 3 "flaws":

-Lack of immunities;
-6 skill points (besides Int mod) per HD instead of the 8 which is the higher number (for Outsiders, Rogues, etc);
-They have less caster levels than they have HD and CR;

I can correct 2 and 3 "flaws" with Half-Fiend template (which makes every racial HD to give 8 skill points) and Abjurant Champion 5 (replaces caster level value by Base Attack value, whicever is higher, now my dragon has full spellcaster level).

But how do it put Construct or Undead immunities on my dragon if templates like Dracolich are applicable to dragon-type creatures? My dragon become outsider-type after Half-Fiend template.

[Vaz]

Dragons have reasonably high Intelligence; taking an average one, like a Green or Bronze Dragon has Intelligence in the low to mid twenties by the time they are tipping the epic challenge ratings, and thats on the 10-11 array. Even as a Wyrmling, the only "thick" Dragon is a White Dragon; with I6, they are essentially the same intelligence as a particularly dimwitted Orc Barbarian (arguably, one not needing Intelligence for a Barbarian to hit things hard means that they can "dump" Int, and take an 8 in the stat, lowered to 6). Other dragons have either an 8, or 10 to start off with, putting them on the level of humans, while the Metallic Dragons are invariably much more intelligent, to the level of an Elite Array Human Scholar, or a Venerable standard human, straight from the egg.

A White Dragon with -4 to Int has 2 less skill points per level; so that's 9HD, at 4pts per level, which is when their intelligence increases come Juvenile status. That's the same as your most basic Human Barbarian with average intelligence, who doesn't dump it, or as a particularly intelligent fighter. While that's not a lot, given the huge pool of skills available to a Dragon, (Listen, Search, Spot, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, All Knowledges, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device, plus the usual 3 additional variants available to the individual Dragon breed, plus those gained by Feats, you are looking at something that's very varied.

As with a White Dragon, however, to optimize it, you're going to need to be more choosy with your skills. You can't have it as a Knowledgeable old Sage, as well as a Social Fiend, Spell-identifying master and Superwand Wielder as well as an incredible hunter. They are more base for a reason. An extremely thick White Dragon can have as much as -3 Skill Points; given that Listen, Search and Spot are noted as the most usual skills, this is the 3, but with Hide, Move Silently and Swim as being possible skills for said White Dragon to make them more an ambush hunter, you could use that.

A thick white dragon ambush hunter could be Hide and Move Silently, with Listen so that they can attempt to pinpoint their target via sound. With no negative modifiers to swimming and no armour, they shouldn't be recieving penalties to swim, even if they do not take any ranks in it. Provided that conditions are not particularly adverse, the Dragon should be capable of swimming under water, locating via hearing, then breaking through the ice/jumping out of the breathing hole, and savaging the targets.

That is one end of the spectrum. The other end is your supremely intelligent, 18 Int via point buy Gold Dragon. As a Wyrmling, they're boasting an Intelligence of 22; the equivalent of a 300 year old Grey Elf Wizard 3, or an 8th level Grey Wizard pumping intelligence. That is straight out of the egg. This chap is boasting 13 Skill Points, and with Disguise, Heal and Swim as class skills in addition to the above, not only can they take the form of a human and nearly appear as human as they are (5HD means 8 skill points, boosted to +10 to disguise by their base 14 Cha straight from the off), but have the 3 Social Skills available to them, as well as cross classed Bluff. Add on Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcane) and they know what spells are being used against them, Swim gives them a means of escape, as well picking up Use Magic Device (for a +10 - essentially what an 8th level rogue has). Concentration to help them cast spells eventually, as well as picking up Hide, Spot and Search, or trading Search for a more useful skill such as Knowledge (Local) for if they're dealing with the populace, or Knowledge (Nature), or even Heal or... yes. There are a lot.

Skill Points aren't going begging. Conversely, a highly intelligent White Dragon, despite having 4 less skill points than a Gold Dragon is still rocking out with their Int of 14 and 8 Skill Points per level, something that's highly respectable, which in later life, presuming that they get that far puts them at Int 26 - a Middle Aged Grey Elf Wizard 20 has 26 Intelligence by this point, but their body has begun to deteriorate to the stage where they now have -3 to their physical stats, which usually drops them down another point of bonus in their physical stats. That same wizard might have had an earlier bump in bonus skill points, said Wizard started off at +7; that same Dragon started off at +8. Although a White Dragon will hardly ever be the most powerful Wizard in the land, it's still, as a Great Wyrm capable of casting 7th level spells, 8th if a Loredrake; many of the skills can be replicated or superceded by spells, or even their sheer physical strength. Does a Great Wyrm really need to know Open Lock or Disable Device when it can simply cast Knock - or rather use its +13 to Strength checks to break down that door it's protecting? Does it need to learn heal when it has Use magic device to operate many different items, including Wands of various healing? Or Social skills, when it has Dominate?

The immunities are likely covered by magic items and spells, as opposed to those granted by something as drastic as changing type.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I thought half-fiend also set your HD to d8, as it sets type to outsider, but it doesn't. Fancy, useful, strange.

As outsiders, half-fiend dragons are eligible for the Lichfiend template, if you really want a lich dragon. However, with their massive constitution scores, dragons are often better off staying alive. Immunities can be gotten through persistent spells (with your shiny new caster level, they're hard to dispel, and epic dragons have an especially easy time using metamagic). Another good way of getting high resistance to a bunch of things is Divine Grace, scintillating scales, a monk's belt or a level in swordsage, a level in marshal, and all those other X to Y things. Dragons tend to have excellent round-the-board mental stats, and you can put those to work for you. But that's running expensive in terms of class levels, and all those class levels don't provide the tasty 8 skill points per HD.

[Vincent Dragon]

Actually i was looking for natural/passive immunities, not spells (even if they are persisted).

[Vincent Dragon]

Up.

I have one more question:

Finally i got a way to apply those natural immunities on my dragon despite his outsider type: Green Star Adept 10.

This class has no type-requirement (unlike Dracolich template) and its capstone makes your type Construct.

The problem is: When you lose Constitution, how will be the breath DC based?

Dracolich states that a dragon uses Charisma instead of Con, but this is not the case.

[AlanBruce]

Finally i got a way to apply those natural immunities on my dragon despite his outsider type: Green Star Adept 10.

This class has no type-requirement (unlike Dracolich template) and its capstone makes your type Construct.

The problem is: When you lose Constitution, how will be the breath DC based?

A mechanical dragon... interesting.

Some golems (which fall under the Construct category) have breath weapons which have DC s based off Constitution.

As an example, here's the Iron Golem (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Iron_Golem)

So in the case of your Greenstar Adept Dragon, the formula to calculate his DC would be= 10 + 1/2 HD + Con Modifier (--, in this case).

Depending on the HD your dragon has, it should still have a respectable DC. Of course, if you are the DM, you can simply change the rule to have his Breath weapon run off Charisma, which should make the DC even higher.