Is the survivor prestige class worth it?

[jangartharn1]

Hey guys how's it going? Alright I'll skip the formalities and get right into it. I have a friend who wants to take the survivor prestige class and he was bragging on how he could get it by 2nd level and then have 5 levels in it because we re running a 6th level campaign. Being his friend of course I want him to be happy with his choice so I'm wondering: is the survivor prestige class worth it?

[Hal0Badger]

The class adds decent defensive abilities, with all good saves through 5 level. The most important downside is, it grants no BAB at all. Another thing is, it does not grant any class skill, but allows your previous class skills to be advanced.

If you would adjust it as a DM to medium BAB, it is a decent class. Nothing over the top for DM, capstone is dr 5/-. Useful for low level or low-optimization campaigns. Not worthwhile if you are optimizing even at medium level.

[GilesTheCleric]

The short answer: no.

The long answer: still no. It's a class that does nothing but raise your defenses in a game where the winner of initiative generally wins regardless of defenses. Further, it doesn't actually give you anything useful -- no mettle, no SR, no miss chance. Evasion is okay, but.. you're still taking half damage. Even with imp evasion, damage can still be done and taking any amount of damage from a spell probably means that you're history, either because there's some MM riders on the spell, or because there's just so many dice and you took a class with a d6 HD.

Now, that said, I've considered dipping it on mundane builds purely for access to evasion (there's only a few PrCs that are easy to enter and grant evasion at low levels), but that was always in conjunction with boosting the heck out of my ref save so that I always took no damage. For something like a rogue that expects to only take damage from AoEs (since the rest of the time you can't see them), it makes sense. For anyone else whose will and fort saves remain vulnerable, it's a losing proposition.

[KillianHawkeye]

Is it worth the level of Commoner you need to take if you want to get into it by 2nd level? Is it worth being a 6th level character with +0 BAB and no class features other than Improved Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and DR 5/-? Is it worth the poor Hit Die and the terrible skill selection?

Probably not.

But hey, if your player wants to play with a handicap like this, then all the more power to them! At least, as long as the rest of the party doesn't mind carrying a little extra weight to make up for the guy making little-to-no contribution.

[jangartharn1]

Alright you guys make some good points. The main thing I think he wants to do is be a "super tank." But he doesn't get he will take those BAB penalties so I'll fill him in on that.

[Charizander]

Alright you guys make some good points. The main thing I think he wants to do is be a "super tank." But he doesn't get he will take those BAB penalties so I'll fill him in on that.If "low level super-tank" is what he wants, point him towards a druid or a knight/crusader.

[GilesTheCleric]

"Tank" is not a role or a build that exists in D&D. D&D doesn't have an aggro mechanic; enemies act according to their intelligence. The only way to become immune to everything is cheese (or to shapechange into punchbag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?462619-If-it-has-stats-we-can-kill-it-Adaptive-Evolution)), so there's no build that works, either.

Battlefield control via tripping, stacking fear, AoOs, or what-have-you are the closest options available.

[SangoProduction]

"Tank" is not a role or a build that exists in D&D. D&D doesn't have an aggro mechanic; enemies act according to their intelligence. The only way to become immune to everything is cheese (or to shapechange into punchbag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?462619-If-it-has-stats-we-can-kill-it-Adaptive-Evolution)), so there's no build that works, either.

Battlefield control via tripping, stacking fear, AoOs, or what-have-you are the closest options available.

Except there are. This was discussed in the last forum you said this in. Unfortunately, Survivor is far from one.

[GilesTheCleric]

Except there are. This was discussed in the last forum you said this in. Unfortunately, Survivor is far from one.

"There are" what? More ways to BFC? More ways to become immune? To be a tank? And, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?471767-Leader-for-a-cult&p=20180692#post20180692) thread?

[SangoProduction]

"There are" what? More ways to BFC? More ways to become immune? To be a tank? And, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?471767-Leader-for-a-cult&p=20180692#post20180692) thread?

Hmm. Sorry. I mistook who you were.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?467409-D-amp-D-The-quot-Tank-quot-HELP-ME

[GilesTheCleric]

Hmm. Sorry. I mistook who you were.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?467409-D-amp-D-The-quot-Tank-quot-HELP-ME

No worries! If you disagree with some of my points above regardless, I'd like to make sure that the OP isn't misled and that my own understanding is on point. Discussion can only benefit everyone.

[SangoProduction]

No worries! If you disagree with some of my points above regardless, I'd like to make sure that the OP isn't misled and that my own understanding is on point. Discussion can only benefit everyone.

I did say that Survivor is not one of those tank options.

[Jack_Simth]

(or to shapechange into punchbag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?462619-If-it-has-stats-we-can-kill-it-Adaptive-Evolution))

Actually, the way it's set up? You don't need Shapechange. None of it's Ex, Su, or spell-like. It's just the natural qualities of Punchbag. Alter Self will do.

[Nifft]

It can be okay in Gestalt, but usually there are better options.