Warlock Patron - The Sith [PEACH]

[Dralnu]

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/image/upload/c_limit,h_414,w_640/t_mp_quality/darth_maul_on_tatooine_by_livioramondelli-d7m8w6o-a-feast-for-your-eyes-amazing-star-wars-fan-art-jpeg-191308.jpg

Peace is a lie.
There is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through victory my chains are broken.
The Force shall set me free.
–The Sith Code

The Sith (PDF) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwWGQ1eWxyRFlicWs/view?usp=sharing)

EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING:
WHY? The Monk and Warlock both are the closest thing we've got to official "Jedi" classes. I've done my version of the Monk Jedi, and now this is my version for the Warlock. While the Jedi's power flows from discipline, calm, insight, and peace with the Force, all heavily WIS attributes, the Sith draws its power from harnessing raw emotions and subjugating the Force to its will -- very CHA, power of personality.

DESIGN GOALS The goal of this archetype is to give the Warlock more abilities to better replicate Sith attributes as seen in the movies. Some specific goals in mind:

summon/use a lightsaber
introduce abilities that allow the Sith to better survive melee combat
grant Sith spells such as Lightning, Push, Choke
grant Force Rage, which many Sith show in the movies that temporarily empower their combat abilities but at the cost of mental/spiritual health



BALANCE NOTES These are my explanations for everything.

Force Rage. This is the first step towards the dark side, so I wanted it to be the first ability acquired. It's a mix of Barbarian Rage and Bladesinging. Once per short rest, instead of twice like Bladesinger.
Lightsaber. Your weapon deals an extra 1d6 damage and is radiant.
Evasion. Sith are nimble, even old dudes like Palpatine show that. This is a mechanical representation of it.
Shrouded Mind. Wanted to bring some more Sith flavor but not have it be combat related. Not satisfied with this yet.



For spells:

Force Blast. A mashup of Cone of Cold, Fireball, and Thunderwave(ish). Less radius than CoC, less damage and 120ft less range than Fireball, but pushes and knocks prone.
Force Choke. Take Hold Person. Downgrade it from paralyzed to stunned (no auto-crits). Add 1d10 force damage. That's the spell.
Force Lightning. "But isn't this just better than Witch Bo--" YES IT IS! Witch Bolt is a terrible spell and this is an intentional upgrade. Witch Bolt suffers from low damage and ends if you lose Concentration, you don't spend your Action maintaining it, the target walks out of your 30ft range, or you lose sight of the target. It's crap on paper, it's crap in playtesting, it's crap crap crap. "But I think it's a good spell!" Fine, use Witch Bolt then, I don't care. I'm not arguing this point anymore.
Force Repulse It's Thunderwave with a worse radius but force instead of thunder and no bang. It's centered on you, not a 15-foot square adjacent to you.

[Rogthnor]

Looks good to me. Has it been playtested?

[Dralnu]

Hey! Sorry for the late response. I didn't have the thread subscribed.

It hasn't been playtested yet. I wasn't happy with it from a flavor point. I wanted a sort of Force Rage to start at 1st level because it felt like that was always the "first step" in the dark side.

[Oramac]

Looks good!! I like the progression you have. It definitely feels like a Sith-in-training.

I do think it might need a Ribbon or two to round it out.

[PoeticDwarf]

I like it, but I don't see the theme enough and it is a bit too strong but it seems cool

The spells, hower, are awful (no offence). Existing spells with a small twist... Doesn't feel unique at all. As example:

Force choke could be stunnend and 1d10 damage normally.

Force repulse could become 1d12 and that you could walk your speed after casting

And so on

[PotatoGolem]

I like that force lightning makes witch bolt actually useful, but you've gone too far. It's a much too powerful debuffs for a 1st level spell. Keep either the ac/dex penalty or multi attack hoser, but not both

[Dralnu]

Looks good!! I like the progression you have. It definitely feels like a Sith-in-training.

I do think it might need a Ribbon or two to round it out.

Any suggestions for Ribbons?


I like it, but I don't see the theme enough and it is a bit too strong but it seems cool

The spells, hower, are awful (no offence). Existing spells with a small twist... Doesn't feel unique at all. As example:

Force choke could be stunnend and 1d10 damage normally.

Force repulse could become 1d12 and that you could walk your speed after casting

And so on

The theme is mimicing the Sith abilities found in the movies. The Sith first begins in the dark side with Rage. It's a fast, accessible way to fuel power. Then they construct a lightsaber, their iconic weapon. They get more nimble, as shown in Sith duels in the movies. They learn a bunch of spells that you see in the movies.

I'll change Force Choke as you suggest. Force Repulse I don't like.


I like that force lightning makes witch bolt actually useful, but you've gone too far. It's a much too powerful debuffs for a 1st level spell. Keep either the ac/dex penalty or multi attack hoser, but not both

I copied the debuff of Slow (3rd lvl), except it doesn't affect casting times, and it targets 1 creature instead of 6. I'll take out the multi attack hose though.


Okay, made some changes. Still need a 14th level ability. Possibly make it simple, like Force Rage can now be used on a short rest instead of long.

[PoeticDwarf]

The theme is mimicing the Sith abilities found in the movies. The Sith first begins in the dark side with Rage. It's a fast, accessible way to fuel power. Then they construct a lightsaber, their iconic weapon. They get more nimble, as shown in Sith duels in the movies. They learn a bunch of spells that you see in the movies.

I'll change Force Choke as you suggest. Force Repulse I don't like.

Well, didn't see them so didn't know about the training and that part but I know about the lightsaber and the "spells" and that kinda stuff, I think the progression and subclass is good this way, evasion seems a bit strong but seems good.

About the spells, my point is that for example force repulse is just thunderwave with a small tweek, that is just... a bit dull. My sugestion was made up in 10 seconds and they aren't that good, but think about changing it to something more unique.

[Oramac]

Any suggestions for Ribbons?

Of the top of my head, maybe a re-flavored version of an Elf's Trance feature. Call it "Draw Force" or something.

[Dralnu]

Well, didn't see them so didn't know about the training and that part but I know about the lightsaber and the "spells" and that kinda stuff, I think the progression and subclass is good this way, evasion seems a bit strong but seems good.

About the spells, my point is that for example force repulse is just thunderwave with a small tweek, that is just... a bit dull. My sugestion was made up in 10 seconds and they aren't that good, but think about changing it to something more unique.

You've never seen Star Wars? I don't know many people who haven't, interesting!

My goal is mainly to replicate the abilities found in the movie. I don't think the current line-up is that bad in terms of uniqueness. Sure, Force Repulse is just reskinned Thunderwave (though notably centers on you, not a cube adjacent to you), but the others right now seem different enough.


Of the top of my head, maybe a re-flavored version of an Elf's Trance feature. Call it "Draw Force" or something.

Maybe. I think Sith still sleep, and the meditating bit is more RP.


I nerfed Force Lightning a bit more (doesn't hinder actions). Force Rage now can be used on a short rest at 11th. Lightsaber now mentions you can only have 2 at a time so you don't turn into a lightsaber factory. I added the 14th level ability, makes you immune to divination attempts and lets you read the emotions of others, so you can go Palpatine on people. "Yes, good, goooood, give into your anger! Search your feelings, you know it to be true!"

I'm satisfied with the current abilities offered, but unhappy with the layout/wording of the class. I feel like it's clunky and doesn't mesh with current PHB layouts, but I currently don't know how to accomplish what I want better.

[Dralnu]

Overhauled the class. Made a snazzy PDF out of it!

[Ninjadeadbeard]

This looks pretty great! I would definitely use it for my own Star Wars games...with a little tweaking. Not a huge fan of the Lightsaber ability, but I understand why it's there. I only wish you had a "Jedi Patron" as well. Just so it mirrors this one better.

Again, awesome!

[Dralnu]

What about the Lightsaber ability don't you like? I'm personally not a fan of the wordiness, but I struggle to shorten it.

Jedi Patron is easy enough: fluff "Force Rage" as "Battle Trance," then swap some of the Sith spells like Force Lightning for more neutral spells.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

What about the Lightsaber ability don't you like? I'm personally not a fan of the wordiness, but I struggle to shorten it.

It's more a problem with the concept. I like having a Lightsaber version of whatever weapon I like, but for verisimilitude in an actual Star Wars setting I find it lacking. It's fine as is for a fantasy setting with a "suddenly Sith" thing.


Jedi Patron is easy enough: fluff "Force Rage" as "Battle Trance," then swap some of the Sith spells like Force Lightning for more neutral spells.

Most likely, yes. Although I would probably move the Force Senses aspect of your 14th level ability earlier. Even Luke in training could sense others' emotional states.

[Oramac]

Overhauled the class. Made a snazzy PDF out of it!

I admit I've got no interest in playing the base warlock class. But this Sith you've made just might tempt me to the Dark Side to play a 'lock! (I'm punny, I know. Just look at my avatar.)

[Dralnu]

It's more a problem with the concept. I like having a Lightsaber version of whatever weapon I like, but for verisimilitude in an actual Star Wars setting I find it lacking. It's fine as is for a fantasy setting with a "suddenly Sith" thing.

I agree, it's not ideal but it's a compromise for gameplay. I didn't want people to feel punished for using a lightsaber when they come across a magical weapon that is mechanically superior to it. Also iirc there were lightsaber whips so zany forms do happen.



Most likely, yes. Although I would probably move the Force Senses aspect of your 14th level ability earlier. Even Luke in training could sense others' emotional states.

I like this idea. I may bring the sensing emotional states thing down to 3rd as a "ribbon" feature, perhaps requiring an action and opposing CHA rolls to successfully read emotions.

14th level ability still needs to be reworked into something, not sure what. I'm also considering lowering the bonus damage on the Lightsaber from 1d6 to 1d4. 1d6 might be too high.


I admit I've got no interest in playing the base warlock class. But this Sith you've made just might tempt me to the Dark Side to play a 'lock! (I'm punny, I know. Just look at my avatar.)

Tempting, the dark side is. :smallamused:

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I'm also considering lowering the bonus damage on the Lightsaber from 1d6 to 1d4. 1d6 might be too high.

+1d6 damage is actually right in line with what magic weapons are available anyway. There's no need to reduce what's already so near bottom of the barrel.

As for the 14th level ability, it needs to be pretty good. It's competing currently with a crippling illusion, an average 60 psychic damage attack (basically nothing reduces or avoids this damage so yikes!) with a removal element, and the ability to make someone a permanent mindslave. You could almost keep Hurl through Hell as is with a fresh coat of paint. Though the mindslave thing just feels so Darkside. Maybe that's how they keep getting apprentices...

[Dralnu]

Alright, I won't change the damage.

I made some updates.

CHANGELOG:

- Force Rage now grants an AC bonus equal to half warlock level instead of resistances
- 14th level ability reworked, the interesting part (read emotions) turned into a ribbon
- New 3rd level ability ribbon, Read Emotions
- 10th level ability reworked, no longer "Evasion," now a Deflect Projectiles; half of the Monk's Deflect Missiles but you can also deflect ranged damaging spell attacks that target you (doesn't work against Fireball or Dominate Person, does work against Firebolt or Disintegrate)
- 14th level ability reworked, now Redirect Projectiles, similar to Deflect Projectiles but you 100% nullify the spell and can redirect it, once per short rest

Nobody liked the 14th level ability, myself included. So I took the read emotions part and brought it down as a 3rd level ribbon.

People mentioned they'd prefer Sith to get an AC bonus over resistance as they focus on dodging attacks rather than taking hits better. I didn't want to do Bladesinger's +INT mod as AC as it would be too powerful on a Warlock, so I picked half warlock level so it scales instead and isn't abusable with dips.

Evasion is rather bland so I made a spin on the Monk's Deflect Missiles. Now you can deflect both arrows and disintegrate beams. I took the second part of it and made it a strong 14th level version.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I love the changes, except for the Force Rage AC bonus. Not only is AC boosting very, very powerful, the damage resistance felt more Sith-like; using aggression and force of will to batter their way through any obstacle. Just my thoughts.

[Dralnu]

Too many people complained about resistance saying it stepped on the Barbarian's toes or Sith are supposed to evade attacks rather than take less damage from them.

I do agree that it's more powerful with this version. Hopefully not too powerful. I've added a clause that you can't wear medium or heavy armor or use a shield while raging, same as Bladesinging. That will keep down the abuse a bit.

[Oramac]

I love the changes, except for the Force Rage AC bonus. Not only is AC boosting very, very powerful, the damage resistance felt more Sith-like; using aggression and force of will to batter their way through any obstacle. Just my thoughts.

I would tend to agree with this, though I can understand the arguments against it too.

Either options is doable. I would say go with what you feel is more thematic to the Sith.

[Dralnu]

Alright, I've reverted the Force Rage change: now it gives resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage once more, but it now works with a shield and medium armor (just like Barbarian Rage).

Unless there's any more issues, I consider this subclass COMPLETE!