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View Full Version : Fightin' dirty! A fun and effective Brawler build. Advice wanted.



Cranthis
2015-12-13, 06:19 PM
I was recently pointed to the Dirty Trick maneuver, and, after doing some research, I came up with a fun build centered around it. I would like your help perfecting it.
What I've got so far:
Human
25 point buy: Strength 16 (18 with human), Dexterity 16, Constitution 14, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma are all 10. You can also drop any one mental stats down to 7 and bump that Strength to 18, 20 with the human bonus.

Feats by level:
1st: Dirty Fighting, for some sweet bonuses with the next feat. It also counts as combat expertise, and this is way less of a feat tax.
Human bonus feat: Improved Dirty Trick. With the above feat, you gain +6 to dirty tricks, as long as you are flanking.
2nd level Brawler: Kitsune style. Getting to dirty trick at the end of a charge is nice, since you get +2 from the charge. Just imagine a charge ending with a knee to the danglies.
3rd: Kitsune tricks. Getting to impose two conditions is fantastic.
5th: Combat Reflexes. Who doesn't love attacks of opportunity? Later, we will combine this with Kitsune Vengeance, for absolute mayhem.
5th level Brawler: Weapon Focus, Unarmed. Here the feats open up abit, as our next super great ones require 6 BAB. So we fill in the hole with accuracy, which is never bad. Improved Initiative would also fit here, depending on preference.
7th: Greater Dirty Trick. Your tricks last longer, which is great!
8th level Brawler: Kitsune Vengeance. Now our attacks of opportunity can impose terrible things on our enemies. You should always choose your trick based on what provoked you.
9th: Quick Dirty Trick. Getting to Dirty Trick as part of a full attack is great, especially since brawler gets free two weapon fighting.
11th: Dirty Trick Master. You make the conditions worse for foes.
11th level Brawler: Superior Dirty Trick. Choose whichever is your favorite, which is most likely blinded. Now it takes them a full round action to remove.
After this point, you could start taking more fighter specific weapon feats for your unarmed strike; getting other Improved maneuver feats is also a decent decision.

Class Feature choices:
Martial flexibility: Depending on your level, you should be using this to get feats from the build that you qualify for, but haven't been able to take yet. This situation is most prevalent at level 6. Greater Dirty Trick, Kitsune Vengeance, and Quick Dirty Trick all require 6 BAB, a spot where we get no permanent feats.
Maneuver Training: Your first choice should be Dirty Tricks of course. After that, Trip should be next. Even further on, pick whatever you think would be the most helpful.

Skills: Perception should be maxed, of course, but otherwise its a toss up. I would recommend Acrobatics, Climb, Swim, and Knowledge Local.
Traits: Reactionary (Combat), because who doesn't love initiative?

So how do you guys like it?

The Random NPC
2015-12-13, 09:40 PM
You shouldn't have both Reactionary and Paragon of Speed. They both provide a trait bonus to initiative, and don't stack.

Cranthis
2015-12-13, 09:42 PM
You shouldn't have both Reactionary and Paragon of Speed. They both provide a trait bonus to initiative, and don't stack.

I did not know that. I edited the post for it though. Thanks for telling me.

Psyren
2015-12-14, 10:18 AM
I'd consider going with the Snakebite Striker archetype. You lose Martial Flexibility, but you get most of the feats you need to get this build going pretty early anyway; furthermore, since you're blinding foes, it makes all your remaining attacks into sneak attacks for an extra 5d6 per hit (6d6 with Accomplished Sneak Attacker.) Combined with Brawler's Flurry and you'll be piling on the damage. This also frees you up to go for more of a dex focus and move that 16 out of Str. Their Snake Feint ability also lets you flank from multiple squares, and you can ignore the feinting part of it since you have two more reliable ways to enable SA (flanking and dirty trick.) Finally, Opportunist combos beautifully with Kitsune Vengeance.

Snakebite Trickster build stats would then be something like: 10 Str, 18 Dex (20), 14 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, 7 Cha.

If you wanted even more SA, you could VMC rogue, though that would start to eat into your feats a bit. In exchange though, you'd go all the way up to a full 10d6 sneak attack per hit, plus get Trapfinding, Evasion and (Improved) Uncanny Dodge.

Cranthis
2015-12-14, 02:47 PM
I'd consider going with the Snakebite Striker archetype. You lose Martial Flexibility, but you get most of the feats you need to get this build going pretty early anyway; furthermore, since you're blinding foes, it makes all your remaining attacks into sneak attacks for an extra 5d6 per hit (6d6 with Accomplished Sneak Attacker.) Combined with Brawler's Flurry and you'll be piling on the damage. This also frees you up to go for more of a dex focus and move that 16 out of Str. Their Snake Feint ability also lets you flank from multiple squares, and you can ignore the feinting part of it since you have two more reliable ways to enable SA (flanking and dirty trick.) Finally, Opportunist combos beautifully with Kitsune Vengeance.

Snakebite Trickster build stats would then be something like: 10 Str, 18 Dex (20), 14 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, 7 Cha.

If you wanted even more SA, you could VMC rogue, though that would start to eat into your feats a bit. In exchange though, you'd go all the way up to a full 10d6 sneak attack per hit, plus get Trapfinding, Evasion and (Improved) Uncanny Dodge.

I like snakebite striker, but I think I'd rather keep my feats. Snakebite is definitely a good idea, but it just doesn't fit into my vision of this build. It also sets me behind even more on feats, with the need to take Weapon Finesse and Agile Maneuvers very early.

The character probably won't reach higher than level 12, so I would rather keep all the feats I can.

Psyren
2015-12-14, 03:21 PM
I like snakebite striker, but I think I'd rather keep my feats. Snakebite is definitely a good idea, but it just doesn't fit into my vision of this build. It also sets me behind even more on feats, with the need to take Weapon Finesse and Agile Maneuvers very early.

The character probably won't reach higher than level 12, so I would rather keep all the feats I can.

That's fair, if you're not going to 20 it's probably weaker. I just enjoy the synergy between SA and DT, and your saves/AC would be higher with this approach as well.