Looking for a Prestige Class for an Archivist

[deathbymanga]

So, I'm making an Archivist for a campaign. Starting at lvl 3. Playing a Tiefling. Sacrificed both arms to remove the Level Adjustment and then grabbed some sweet Robot Arms that I eventually plan to enchant with something.

Thinking of playing this character as a sort-a Divine Archeologist. He goes into old, abandoned Temples that have been swarmed with dangerous monsters, and searches for ancient lore lost about old gods no longer worshiped.

So, How should I build this? Thinking I'll probably need a bunch of skill points in Climb and Jump so that I can explore ruins of all kinds, as well as some decent Knowledge to know my way around these places. So, how would you go about figuring this out? Archivist + Rogue maybe?

[GilesTheCleric]

So, I'm making an Archivist for a campaign. Starting at lvl 3. Playing a Tiefling. Sacrificed both arms to remove the Level Adjustment and then grabbed some sweet Robot Arms that I eventually plan to enchant with something.

Thinking of playing this character as a sort-a Divine Archeologist. He goes into old, abandoned Temples that have been swarmed with dangerous monsters, and searches for ancient lore lost about old gods no longer worshiped.

So, How should I build this? Thinking I'll probably need a bunch of skill points in Climb and Jump so that I can explore ruins of all kinds, as well as some decent Knowledge to know my way around these places. So, how would you go about figuring this out? Archivist + Rogue maybe?

You're making an archivist (not an artificer, just to be clear? The name is similar and they function similarly to what you describe.) with item crafting that enjoys archaeology? You actually already have all the tools you need to do so built into your class. Cast Find Traps (PHB) with Instant Search (SC)/ Spontaneous Search (SC) and other skill-boosting spells to find traps, and you can use things like Detect Metal and Minerals (RoF) to locate hidden treasures. If you want to look like a rogue while doing it, you can find some really cool daggers or kukris and maybe something like a Silkwrap (Ss?). If you prefer the Indiana Jones style, there's probably a spelunker's outfit in AaEG. One of my favourite things about D&D is being able to refluff things so that my characters are more like I envision. For example, the cleric in my avatar functions a lot like a rogue and probably looks like one, but was built without levels in the actual rogue class.

Footsteps of the Divine (CC) will let you burrow, fly, or climb depending on your deity.

[deathbymanga]

You're making an archivist (not an artificer, just to be clear? The name is similar and they function similarly to what you describe.) with item crafting that enjoys archaeology? You actually already have all the tools you need to do so built into your class. Cast Find Traps (PHB) with Instant Search (SC)/ Spontaneous Search (SC) and other skill-boosting spells to find traps, and you can use things like Detect Metal and Minerals (RoF) to locate hidden treasures. If you want to look like a rogue while doing it, you can find some really cool daggers or kukris and maybe something like a Silkwrap (Ss?). If you prefer the Indiana Jones style, there's probably a spelunker's outfit in AaEG. One of my favourite things about D&D is being able to refluff things so that my characters are more like I envision. For example, the cleric in my avatar functions a lot like a rogue and probably looks like one, but was built without levels in the actual rogue class.

Footsteps of the Divine (CC) will let you burrow, fly, or climb depending on your deity.

Yes Archivist

Oh, no, I'm purchasing the Robot Arms, not making them. So I don't think I need to worry about Craft Skills, though grabbing Craft might be a good idea if I want to be doing some self-upgrades, hmm, note to self "look more into that". However, don't I need Climb and Jump skills to be a true spelunker?

How'd you get the extra skill points as a Cleric?

[GilesTheCleric]

Yes Archivist

Oh, no, I'm purchasing the Robot Arms, not making them. So I don't think I need to worry about Craft Skills, though grabbing Craft might be a good idea if I want to be doing some self-upgrades, hmm, note to self "look more into that". However, don't I need Climb and Jump skills to be a true spelunker?

How'd you get the extra skill points as a Cleric?

Ah, I see. Appraise and/ or Craft seem like useful skills for a spelunker, along with Knowledge: history and dungeoneering. Climbing and Jumping are both skills that you can 'take 10' on when you're not in a stressful situation (ie combat), which means that you can auto-roll a 10 on the die. If you have a knotted rope, the climb DC probably isn't higher than 15, so you'd only need 5 ranks to reliably climb ropes and things. Jump is a tricky skill; it's pretty useless in any situation where you have a rope or 11' pole and time on your hands. It's useful for uberchargers, but that's a whole other can of purple worms. Other things to consider for a spelunker might be playing a dwarf or kobold for access to stonecunning/ trap-finding+digging. Maybe elves also have an ability to detect secret doors? I haven't played an elf in... ever, so I can't recall offhand.

Clerics have spells that replace their lack of skill points. However, even a basic cleric can do okay for skills: a human with 12 int gets 4 points/ level, and the only skills that are effectively required for clerics are concentration and spellcraft (k:religion is useful, too), so that's enough points to keep climb and jump maxed, assuming that you had already taken Cosmopolitan or Apprentice or something to make them class skills. In the example I gave above, Footsteps of the Divine is a level 3 spell (available at clr 5/ archivist 5) that grants a new movement speed. When you have a listed movement speed like climb or swim, you don't even need to roll a skill check to perform that action under most circumstances (including combat).

[deathbymanga]

Ah, I see. Appraise and/ or Craft seem like useful skills for a spelunker, along with Knowledge: history and dungeoneering. Climbing and Jumping are both skills that you can 'take 10' on when you're not in a stressful situation (ie combat), which means that you can auto-roll a 10 on the die. If you have a knotted rope, the climb DC probably isn't higher than 15, so you'd only need 5 ranks to reliably climb ropes and things. Jump is a tricky skill; it's pretty useless in any situation where you have a rope or 11' pole and time on your hands. It's useful for uberchargers, but that's a whole other can of purple worms. Other things to consider for a spelunker might be playing a dwarf or kobold for access to stonecunning/ trap-finding+digging. Maybe elves also have an ability to detect secret doors? I haven't played an elf in... ever, so I can't recall offhand.

Clerics have spells that replace their lack of skill points. However, even a basic cleric can do okay for skills: a human with 12 int gets 4 points/ level, and the only skills that are effectively required for clerics are concentration and spellcraft (k:religion is useful, too), so that's enough points to keep climb and jump maxed, assuming that you had already taken Cosmopolitan or Apprentice or something to make them class skills. In the example I gave above, Footsteps of the Divine is a level 3 spell (available at clr 5/ archivist 5) that grants a new movement speed. When you have a listed movement speed like climb or swim, you don't even need to roll a skill check to perform that action under most circumstances (including combat).

Requiring spells to cast to increase my skills sounds terrible as a Prepared Caster since I'd be making all my Spells be Skill Buff spells. What if I run into a monster while Spelunking?

[GilesTheCleric]

Requiring spells to cast to increase my skills sounds terrible as a Prepared Caster since I'd be making all my Spells be Skill Buff spells. What if I run into a monster while Spelunking?

It's really not all that bad. Most of the skill-increasing spells are low-level, which means that they're good uses for otherwise useless slots at higher levels. Even at lower levels, you probably only need one or two prepared if they last min/lvl; grabbing Extend Spell can be an easy way to make them last longer. Even for those spells which last rds/lvl, it seems unlikely to me that you would need to use them more than a few times per dungeon. And, for example, once you've gotten up a cliff once, you can secure a rope at the top to make climbing up it the next time easier.

Perhaps to put your mind at ease, consider a staple of divine skill-buffing spells: Divine Insight (SC). It lasts hrs/lvl, and is a level 2 spell. That means you have it as soon as level three. Cast it before you enter a cave, then activate it when you need it. It's going to give you a minimum of +8 to your check when you use it, so that means an average roll for something you're untrained in is an 18. With just a few ranks, it's easy to beat DC 20, which is likely the most difficult DC you'll encounter for a while.

When I make a spell list for most of my characters, I usually devote 1/3 of my slots to buffs, 1/3 to utility, and 1/3 to combat. Of course, if you know what you plan to do during a day ahead of time, then you can better divide up your slots among what you expect to need them for. For example, if you've learned of a cave you'd like to visit, spend a day in the town nearby asking the locals about what's in it, what they've seen. Make a knowledge: dungeoneering or local check (don't forget that with knowledge checks, you can't learn more than simple information unless you have at least one rank) with your +8 from Divine Insight to see what you can remember from your knowledge and learn from materials available in town.

And of course, there's nothing stopping you from taking two days to clear out a dungeon; prep combat spells for the first day and clear out all the creatures you can find, then go back the second day with more utility spells prepped (and probably one or two combat spells, just to be safe).

[Acanous]

most of the good PrCs for Archivist require turning. What's your alignment?

[Talionis]

Take a first level of Rogue or Spell-thief, then Archivist into Loredelver from Races of Destiny. Illumians multi class well and I bet you can find a sigil that's helpful for your character. Loredelver can cast spontaneously some of the best rogue spells.

Also you can add trap finding to any class with a couple feats and magic of Incarnum . Incarnates make great skill monkeys, but two feats will let you get the Soulmeld that grants trap finding bonuses and second feat lets you bind it to your hands so you'll have trap finding without losing an Archivist level. Also the bonuses to skills is pretty cool.

[daremetoidareyo]

Consider techsmith from faiths and pantheons. Initiate of gond feat would synergize pretty well. The only problem is the assumption of both the feat and prestige class is that you enter with cleric rather than another divine caster, so you'll need DM permission to rock them all out.


The following is a better idea:
Runecaster is probably the best and most optimizable prestige class to go with. Here's a guide telling you how to rock it the heck out. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?296106-Runeblaster-A-Handbook-for-the-D-amp-D-3-5-Runecaster)

Consider legendary artisan or extraordinary artisan to cut some costs with the runes out.

[Troacctid]

Paragnostic Apostle and Ruathar are easy ways to pick up a couple extra skills without losing casting.

[Aleolus]

He's already said he's playing a Tiefling Archivist, not a Cleric, and not Illumian or human.

That being said, Archivists get 4+int Skill points a level iirc, so a 12 or 14 innt should net you enough there

[Talionis]

He's already said he's playing a Tiefling Archivist, not a Cleric, and not Illumian or human.

That being said, Archivists get 4+int Skill points a level iirc, so a 12 or 14 innt should net you enough there

A lot of tables see racial requirements as fluff and ignore them, my table does.

[BowStreetRunner]

I love the idea of an Indiana Jones style archivist - a little bit scholarly but definitely able to handle himself in the field. Teifling makes a nice Archivist race with the +2 INT as well.

The good news is that you have all Knowledge skills as well as Decipher Script, Gather Information, and Search in class. For balance, climb, jump, and use rope you can get away with just a few skill points, masterwork tools and taking 10 for most of your checks so a couple of cross-class ranks may be sufficient.

You may want to try to stay with PrCs that advance casting as much as possible - Holt Warden (Complete Champion p 84) and Church Inquisitor (Complete Divine p 26) are some of my favorites for Archivists, however I'm not sure what PrC I would recommend for your particular build. If you do need to dip something that doesn't advance spellcasting I would go with Factotum long before considering Rogue. It's also INT based, gives you more skill points and all skills as class skills, gives you some nice abilities in the first few levels and has great flavor for your character.

[torrasque666]

A lot of tables see racial requirements as fluff and ignore them, my table does.
That being said, just because "a lot" see them that way doesn't mean that, without knowing if his table is or isn't one of them, we should assume they are.

[OzzyKP]

It isn't a prestige class, but if anyone is going for an Indiana Jones type character, I made this archaeologist class:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?446691-Archaeologist-%28Pathfinder-Base-Class%29

[ATHATH]

@OP: You might be doing this for fluff reasons, but you do know that the LA+0 Lesser Tiefling exists, right?

[thethird]

How does the dm feel about allowing urban scholar to progress divine casting and thus archivist? I always felt it work greatly with archivist.

[gorfnab]

How about using some Binder? Binder can get you some interesting scouting and roguish type options.

Archivist 5/ Binder 1/ Anima Mage (Divine Adaptation) 10/ Paragnostic Apostle 4 - if your current level in game is Archivist 3

Binder 1/ Archivist 3/ Anima Mage (Divine Adaptation) 10/ Paragnostic Apostle 1/ Tenebrous Apostate 5 - if you can rearrange your levels a bit and don't mind being slightly evil

[Thurbane]

Paragnostic Apostle and Ruathar are easy ways to pick up a couple extra skills without losing casting.

Paragnostic Apostle also has some decent abilities that synergize with the Archivists skill-based focus.

If you can swing the racial and cross-class skill ranks, Hexer is solid, if you're looking for a more gish-type archivist. Take a big hit to skill points, though.

Pretty sure Tiefling wouldn't be able to qualify for Hexer

[glitterbaby]

A lot of tables see racial requirements as fluff and ignore them, my table does.

Really? I've never heard of something like that. I'm not trying to say it's wrong but how does it work? Do you just pick the abilities you want for the build and call the race whatever you want?

[BowStreetRunner]

Really? I've never heard of something like that. I'm not trying to say it's wrong but how does it work? Do you just pick the abilities you want for the build and call the race whatever you want?
I think what he is saying is just ignore the racial prerequisite in order to enter a PrC like Loredelver (Illumian only).

[Waazraath]

So, I'm making an Archivist for a campaign. Starting at lvl 3. Playing a Tiefling. Sacrificed both arms to remove the Level Adjustment and then grabbed some sweet Robot Arms that I eventually plan to enchant with something.

Thinking of playing this character as a sort-a Divine Archeologist. He goes into old, abandoned Temples that have been swarmed with dangerous monsters, and searches for ancient lore lost about old gods no longer worshiped.

So, How should I build this? Thinking I'll probably need a bunch of skill points in Climb and Jump so that I can explore ruins of all kinds, as well as some decent Knowledge to know my way around these places. So, how would you go about figuring this out? Archivist + Rogue maybe?

Fiendbinder might be something, it's in Tome of Magic in the Truenamer section. Despite that, it's quite good, and flavorful.

[glitterbaby]

I think what he is saying is just ignore the racial prerequisite in order to enter a PrC like Loredelver (Illumian only).

Oh. That makes actual sense...