Spheres of Power: Destruction Handbook Open Beta

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As some of you know, Drop Dead Studios (http://www.dropdeadstudios.com/) is producing a series of expansions for the Spheres of Power (http://paizo.com/products/btpy96pr?Spheres-of-Power) alternate magic system, each expanding upon a single sphere. I am the author of the release focused on the very fun but often misunderstood Destruction sphere. I would like to borrow some processing cycles from the mighty groupmind of the playground to find issues, solicit suggestions, and generally improve the product to make my first release as good as it can be.
Destruction Handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c3LPA0j7qKpLFP2lOr3I9X9VUpH8vOvs17pKmTCj36M/edit?usp=sharing)

Hold nothing (pertinent) back. Thanks for all your help.

Doomblade mechanics
Elemental Scion: streamlined method for accessing class abilities without spellpoint cost
Spellcrafting: DCs
Improved elemental blade feat: interplay with bound energy arsenal trick (too much damage?)
Bound Energy Arsenal Trick: interplay with improved elemental blade

Schedule: Original manuscript was to be due in March, but things have shifted a bit,m as expected given the number of people involved. As we want to release the best possible project, this will remain open for as long as it is needed.

[khadgar567]

is there a chance we can get ride the blast from kineticts as spere talent because 3000 ft aka 914 m jump looks pretty good way to get the f out of encounter going sour

[stack]

is there a chance we can get ride the blast from kineticts as spere talent because 3000 ft aka 914 m jump looks pretty good way to get the f out of encounter going sour

Originally energy leap had no spell point cost, and thus was limited to close range, but given the utility of the mobility and the overlap with the line blast shape from sculpt blast (in the original release), I added a cost. With a cost, the range limit may be unnecessary, so I will definitely consider changing the range to just be your destructive blast range. This could be somewhat problematic with extreme range though, have to think about it.

[khadgar567]

Originally energy leap had no spell point cost, and thus was limited to close range, but given the utility of the mobility and the overlap with the line blast shape from sculpt blast (in the original release), I added a cost. With a cost, the range limit may be unnecessary, so I will definitely consider changing the range to just be your destructive blast range. This could be somewhat problematic with extreme range though, have to think about it.
I mean for one standard action you put 1 hour and 40 minutes of move time between you and opponent( this takes opponent has 30 ft ground speed with no speed increase)
math may be have error

[stack]

I think energy leap is a reasonable substitute, especially given that it is available at level 1. You can spellcraft it with other shapes if desired, though I could see adding a way to combine it with some shapes...interesting.

[Vhaidara]

So, I have this horrible munchkin using this in my game.

Oh wait.

Will give a more in depth look after work, posting to sub so I don't lose the thread.

[stack]

So, I have this horrible munchkin using this in my game.

Oh wait.

Will give a more in depth look after work, posting to sub so I don't lose the thread.

Hey now, I totally DID NOT set that mansion on fire in the first scene. Could have, didn't.

[khadgar567]

Hey now, I totally DID NOT set that mansion on fire in the first scene. Could have, didn't.

this is why you neeed extended reach energy leap as one of the tallents 1000 ft jump( 304 m) is good range to jump away from or in to figth
for comparison kineticts using extended range and airs reach only can get to 200 meters as one jump with some burn damage

[stack]

Too busy using energy tether to be spiderman for that.

[khadgar567]

Too busy using energy tether to be spiderman for that.
personally still works can you see the bastard he is going toe to toe with new York traffic which is faster than 20th level destruction sphere specialist can go using my combo on the previous posts ( for easyness sake specialist can go near one kilometer per jump while spidey can go 100 km or so with no sweet while doing running commentary about his angst over j jonah or trying to snark on random mook with bad hair)

[stack]

A big thing I am looking for help on is figuring out a way to make the doomblade archetype work. The idea is basically an eldritch glaive, but the way you can boost damage of a destructive blast makes it somewhat problematic.

[khadgar567]

A big thing I am looking for help on is figuring out a way to make the doomblade archetype work. The idea is basically an eldritch glaive, but the way you can boost damage of a destructive blast makes it somewhat problematic.
same problem buddy one of my classes I work needs same type of fix

[TheIronGolem]

A big thing I am looking for help on is figuring out a way to make the doomblade archetype work. The idea is basically an eldritch glaive, but the way you can boost damage of a destructive blast makes it somewhat problematic.

I assume you mean it's problematic when multiple attacks are made? What if the damage boost applies only to the first attack? Then the amount of bonus damage you're getting for your spell point is in line with that gained by any other Destruction user who enhances their blast.

You could also specify that it has to apply on the first attack made, rather than the first attack that successfully lands. Then you're adding an element of risk in that the spell point could be wasted if that first attack doesn't land. Not sure if that's necessary, but it's an idea.

[Elricaltovilla]

I have a suggestion: What about a way to use area blasts without harming your allies. Alchemist and Cleric have feat options that allow them to exclude a certain number of squares from the effects of their bombs or channel energy (respectively). If there isn't something like that already, it would be a nice addition to a tactically minded destruction user.

[stack]

I have a suggestion: What about a way to use area blasts without harming your allies. Alchemist and Cleric have feat options that allow them to exclude a certain number of squares from the effects of their bombs or channel energy (respectively). If there isn't something like that already, it would be a nice addition to a tactically minded destruction user.

Second time today I have had someone suggest that. I agree, though it is a question of numbers. For most parties and blast shapes, saying you exclude caster mod creatures is the same as saying all allies are immune. Lines are easy enough to aim, cones shouldn't be hitting more than a couple, and the burst shape...I'd rather use energy orb anyhow. It would also diminish the niche of energy snake, but I do t want niche protection for its own sake.

Long and short - is 1 sp enough of a cost to exclude caster mod allies?

[TheIronGolem]

Long and short - is 1 sp enough of a cost to exclude caster mod allies?

Alternate idea: No SP cost, but instead of [CAM] allies unaffected, it's only one. Then make it a repeatable talent, adding one extra unaffected square/ally with each instance.

[Elricaltovilla]

Second time today I have had someone suggest that. I agree, though it is a question of numbers. For most parties and blast shapes, saying you exclude caster mod creatures is the same as saying all allies are immune. Lines are easy enough to aim, cones shouldn't be hitting more than a couple, and the burst shape...I'd rather use energy orb anyhow. It would also diminish the niche of energy snake, but I do t want niche protection for its own sake.

Long and short - is 1 sp enough of a cost to exclude caster mod allies?

With the understanding that I am not really an expert on Spheres of Power in any sense of the word, I think it seems a reasonable cost.

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Added to the doc:

Selective Blast
You may exclude one creature plus one per 10 caster levels from the area of your destructive blasts that have an instantaneous duration. You may instead spend a spell point to increase the number of excluded creatures by your casting ability modifier.

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Doomblade is reworked. What dies the tether adept feat need for clarity?

[A.J.Gibson]

Doomblade is reworked. What dies the tether adept feat need for clarity?

I keep reading it and I don't get it at all. What kind of action is it to create the tether? To maintain it? I'm guessing standard for both. If I use it with a d6/level blast, does it keep doing that damage every round?

Maybe an example would help?

[PsyBomb]

Giving it a read now. From what I see, it could still really use a damage boost. Not saying it has to be MURDERDEATHPOUNCE Barbarian damage, but something to let it approximately 2-round CR appropriate opponents is pretty much the gold standard.

[stack]

Giving it a read now. From what I see, it could still really use a damage boost. Not saying it has to be MURDERDEATHPOUNCE Barbarian damage, but something to let it approximately 2-round CR appropriate opponents is pretty much the gold standard.

Generally or the doomblade specifically? It's touch, so only misses on a 1 against most opponents after the early levels, so if you have a source of haste or other bonus attack you are probably hitting 5 times a round for 10d6 (or d8 with the right blast type), and can grab a feat to boost crit range to 18-20, add improved critical for 17-20. 50d6 averages 175/rnd, and you can switch damage type each round. That ought to hurt a bit. You also can ignore power attack and most other feats martials need to do damage. The cost is you swift every round forever, which locks you out of nice immediate action abilities...

Need a way to fix that, since it also locks you out of most mystic combats since so many are activated as a swift...

[khadgar567]

Generally or the doomblade specifically? It's touch, so only misses on a 1 against most opponents after the early levels, so if you have a source of haste or other bonus attack you are probably hitting 5 times a round for 10d6 (or d8 with the right blast type), and can grab a feat to boost crit range to 18-20, add improved critical for 17-20. 50d6 averages 175/rnd, and you can switch damage type each round. That ought to hurt a bit. You also can ignore power attack and most other feats martials need to do damage. The cost is you swift every round forever, which locks you out of nice immediate action abilities...

Need a way to fix that, since it also locks you out of most mystic combats since so many are activated as a swift...
Well that damage is pretty good if you ask me swift action 135 damage were you can do twice per turn is good for any situation ( basicly each turn one guy either falls or made fortitude save for mass damage) instead of nerfing the damage i advice you to increase more like 80d6 or more as standart action(aka use more of your turn to deal more damage) the sphere name is destruction ( can we use blast as destructo disk from dragon ball) aka high damage and annalation is in the job title

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To clarify, that is a swift action AND a full attack.

[Tulya]

Need a way to fix that, since it also locks you out of most mystic combats since so many are activated as a swift...

Time Shift?

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Time Shift?

That is a great talent, but in this instance you just end up paying to kick the problem down the road. I'm thinking a duration longer than 1 rnd. Paying a shift once or twice a combat isn't a problem, paying all of them for the privilege of getting to have a weapon is problematic.

[Prime32]

Any chance we could see something like this?


Variable Blast (blast type)
As a standard action (or as a swift action by expending 1 spell point), you may select one of the following energy types to be your active energy type: cold, electricity, fire or sonic. Once made, your choice of active energy type lasts until you choose again. You may change the damage type of your destructive blast to match your current active energy type.
If you are a psionic creature, then your active energy type from this talent is the same as your psionic active energy type. If you have an active element (such as from levels in Mystic) then you count as a psionic creature for determining how your active energy type interacts with your active element.

Drawbacks

Energy Focus*: (Requires Destruction)
You may only make a destructive blast of a single energy type. You may not gain any blast type talents that deal a different energy type, nor may you gain the Variable Blast talent. You must select a blast type talent with the bonus talent gained from this drawback.

Fourfold Energy: (Requires Destruction)
You may only make a destructive blast as a Variable Blast, and cannot gain any other blast type talents. You must select the Variable Blast talent as your bonus talent for this drawback.Mainly for the sake of Elemental Flux users with Destructive Blade.

Would also be interesting to see abilities for using Energy Wall to trap enemies in with you and prevent outsiders from interfering (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87nkWPZ_UMI). Maybe letting the wall grant cover, tying it to Smite Evil or Armiger's Mark in some way (e.g. while you're inside a hemisphere wall, all enemies within are considered marked) or adding a dimensional lock effect.

[stack]

Any chance we could see something like this?
Mainly for the sake of Elemental Flux users with Destructive Blade.

Would also be interesting to see abilities for using Energy Wall to trap enemies in with you and prevent outsiders from interfering (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87nkWPZ_UMI). Maybe letting the wall grant cover, tying it to Smite Evil or Armiger's Mark in some way (e.g. while you're inside a hemisphere wall, all enemies within are considered marked) or adding a dimensional lock effect.

Energy focus was a drawback in the original book, though I am modifying and reprinting it since it was problematic given that there are now multiple blast types with one damage type.

As for trapping enemies in a wall, the improved energy wall provides partial concealment, though I've had some feedback requesting that be altered to cover.

Changing the damage types is problematic though. The relative value of the different damage types is used as a balancing factor between blast type talents. Letting you switch them on the fly would make some stronger than they currently are.

[stack]

It seems that the schedule has to be shuffled for next months release. The destruction handbook is to be moved up. I apologize for the necessity and the short notice. There is still time for suggestions and comments for the next few days, until Christmas. You all have been a huge help and the comments and ideas I have received have made this a better product.

If there are serious concerns, I can push to hold the release off to have time to address them.

[Prime32]

Energy focus was a drawback in the original book, though I am modifying and reprinting it since it was problematic given that there are now multiple blast types with one damage type.Yes, and I was suggesting "You cannot take Variable Blast" as an additional change if Variable Blast were to exist, to prevent confusion.


Changing the damage types is problematic though. The relative value of the different damage types is used as a balancing factor between blast type talents. Letting you switch them on the fly would make some stronger than they currently are.However you don't get any carrier effects, making it weaker than other blasts, and switching between them is costly. It's useful against enemies with energy vulnerabilities, but worse than a force or untyped blast in every other situation (and arguably worse than Thunder Blast, since there aren't many enemies who resist sonic but are vulnerable to another element).
Maybe add a -1 penalty to the attack roll/DC, representing that it's less stable?

[stack]

Hmm, could work as a feat so it only applies to the default blast. I'll think about it.

[Prime32]

Or you could make it an advanced talent available from lv1 which requires the psionic subtype?

[A.J.Gibson]

At the risk of being boring, can we get an equivalent to the kineticist's diadem? Something that just adds raw damage to blasts?

[A.J.Gibson]

I'd like to share my thoughts on the (awesome) Blastslinger archetype, since it's hard to fit them into comments on the doc. The following is merely my opinion, as someone who has never actually played a gunslinger.

First, I think this archetype should add Knowledge (Arcana) and UMD to it's skill list. I'd also be tempted to give them some bonus to UMD when activating non-destruction wands (like getting to add their wis mod). I might give them some bonus for rods and staffs as well.

Second, I don't know how the damage of this class holds up. The gunslinger gets more damage out of iterative attacks, while the blastslinger gets them out of two-wanding at higher levels.

For to make their own wands, I think there needs to be clarity as to what the blastslinger can create: can they create any destruction wand, for example? Can they upgrade wands? What about wands that use blasts that require other spheres? I also think they should have some way to make 'loads' for their wands. Like a new magic item that costs 25gp which recharges 1 spell point into a magic item.

For Gritty Activation, the rules in the Spheres of Power book say a wand can only be charged once per day, so being able to do it twice per round is kinda useless. Is it supposed to let the blastslinger use grit in place of uses of the wand instead?

For wand training, I think it would make more sense for every level to add +1 Caster Level, instead of level 5 adding damage instead. Adding a damage bonus makes the slinger more likely to use area blast attacks, and I get the impression the archetype is supposed to be a precision fighter.

I think we need to look at the gunslinger's deeds, because some are useless or make less sense now:

Deadeye - as far as I can tell, this is useless to a blastslinger, since they always target ranged touch, maybe some sort of 'spend grit to ignore cover or -4 for firing into melee' deed
Gunslinger's Dodge - works fine
Quick Clear - replaced by Gritty Activation

Gunslinger Initiative - fine as is, though maybe the language needs to be cleared up since it relied on the quick draw feat, which specifies weapons
Pistol-Whip - kinda useless, since destruction spells can be used as melee touch attacks, the slinger is better off casting defensively in melee range
Utility Shot - stop bleeding makes little sense for the slinger, since wands don't heat up from use (I think) the way guns do, but being able to blast locks is cool.

Dead Shot - replaced by Dead Blast (which needs a different name, I think)
Startling Shot - sorta works, wands aren't loud way guns are, so it makes less sense.
Targeting - works as is, though thematically it makes less sense for a blasting wand to do precision damage than a gun

Bleeding Wound - same as targeting
Expert Loading - replaced by Gritty Activation, I'd be tempted to break Gritty Activation into 2 things to keep the number of deeds available the same
Lightning Reload - replaced by Two-Wand fighting

Evasive - fine as is
Menacing Shot - fine as is
Slinger's Luck - fine as is

Cheat Death - fine as is
Death's Shot - fine as is
Stunning Shot - fine as is

Finally, I think there should be some mechanism for the slinger to boost the caster level in the same way the wand wielder feat does. Wand Training goes part of the way, but I'm not certain it's enough.

[stack]

Open beta was held open longer than planned due to lots of great feedback. Official close in Monday morning.

[A.J.Gibson]

Open beta was held open longer than planned due to lots of great feedback. Official close in Monday morning.

Already? I have not yet begun to make a nuisance of myself!

On a side note, Gather Energy is very strong at level 1. You might want to put in a caster level requirement (3?).

Also, Ray blast shape? Please?

[Mehangel]

Ray blast shape? Please?

Isnt the standard blast already technically a ray? If the destructive blast isnt explicitly a ray, perhaps that is something that should be changed.

[A.J.Gibson]

Isnt the standard blast already technically a ray? If the destructive blast isnt explicitly a ray, perhaps that is something that should be changed.

I was referred to a conversation form earlier: basically, a blast shape that limits the blast to one target, but allows you to do more damage. Currently, all the destruction options are AoE's of some sort. What a few of us would really like to see is something to pull out during the big boss fights. My suggestion was a ray that did +1 damage per die and could be fired into melee without that -4 penalty. Other have suggested other things.

[stack]

There is a new talent, just out I last night, that increases your damage by 1 die and can be taken more than once. How often it can be taken I'm still working out. This hopefully will help satisfy those that just want to go all in on damage dealing.

That kind of ray talent would basically be '+1 per die when using basic attack'. Doesn't seem like a problem. I'll try to add it in before time runs out.

[stack]

Close of open beta is official. Thank you all very much.