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Calen
2015-12-14, 01:27 PM
I present a new class that I have been working on for a while. The idea is a character that will help aid all his/her allies by use of minor buffs and auras. Works as a front line or second line combatant it wont be a damage dealer in its own right but will help its allies dish out the pain.

Please tell me what you think.

The Commander (Google Doc) (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ErIWoiPQl6PZLAk5xAn7BrNbzVqNdhUReEWsNbb-12U/edit#heading=h.ec1tby75ihsn)

Change Log
1.1 Rewrote the "Rally the Troops" ability
1.2 Fixed and clarified several features.
1.3 Added Feature "Strike Hard" moved "Fighting Style" and added "Extra Attack"
1.4 Rewrote the Tacticians Inspiration feature (Still looking for a new name)

Kurt Kurageous
2015-12-14, 07:56 PM
I present a new class that I have been working on for a while. The idea is a character that will help aid all his/her allies by use of minor buffs and auras. Works as a front line or second line combatant it wont be a damage dealer in its own right but will help its allies dish out the pain.

Please tell me what you think.

The Commander (Google Doc) (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ErIWoiPQl6PZLAk5xAn7BrNbzVqNdhUReEWsNbb-12U/edit?usp=sharing)

I had a different take. Make it a fighter archetype instead.
Bit you have given me ideas for the 'maneuvers' replacements I'm needing.

dsollen
2015-12-16, 01:57 PM
Rally the troops may have scaling issues. The amount healed is entirely dependent on your party members. At level one if you have 2 other ally then healing 8 damage by dealing 10 damage to yourself *and* wasting an action is hardly a good idea. If you have 10 party members your healing 30 damage (after your own damage) which is pretty efficent. If your leading an army of 500...

I would cap the maximum amount healed at minimum. I may also adjust it to scale with smaller party sizes so it's not quite as worthless. Say you heal a flat amount + small amount per additional party members, up to a maximum, spread equally across all healed. That way you get a small bonus to having larger party (which this class really should have); but it's not completely detrimental to use with smaller party.

Furthermore at level 5 you heal yourself for more then you do damage, meaning you can use this ability at will. In a fight this may not be a problem, your still expending a turn to do it so the balance of turn economy could make this a valid trade (really hard to say though without a party size cap). However, imagine outside of combat. You end the party with everyone down to a little health but don't have time to do a short rest. So your commander says he spends a minute rallying the troops, 10 rounds for the ability healing everyone else for at least 110 damage at level 5, and even your commander gets at least a hit dice, probably more, of healing.

I would add a rider saying that he can only rally troops in combat, or maybe that he can use it exactly once, but no more, when not in battle.

Calen
2015-12-16, 04:48 PM
Rally the troops may have scaling issues. ...


Thanks for the feedback. Hadn't thought about those issues; will work on improving and or rewriting the skill.

dsollen
2015-12-17, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the feedback. Hadn't thought about those issues; will work on improving and or rewriting the skill.

Glad your appreciated it. The new version is fairly different but should work (I don't know 5e enough to say what amount of healing is balanced, but I'll assume it's right lol). One very minor nitpick on wording, if I use it with less then 10 hp do I die afterwards? :smalltongue: It's trivial, but I would toss in that you must have more then 1 hit die of hp left to avoid anyone trying to rule-lawyer a DM for some odd reason.

And while I'm nit-picking, let me commence with a whole lot more of it, since I can't contribute with actual useful balance suggestions I'll just rule lawyer you to death instead! :smallbiggrin:

battlefield vetrain [\B]

Another small nitpick on wording, when you say "enemy that you are aware of that makes a melee attack against an ally within 5 feet of you" do you mean that the enemy needs to be within five feet or that the ally needs to be within five feet? Once this ability works for ranged that matters. Can I disadvantage a foe next to me shooting at an ally 30 ft away? or disadvantage an attack on an ally who is within 15 feet of me when the attacker is 30 ft away? Also, presumably the 15 feet from the last ability still applies to the ranged one, but may be best to make that explicit as well.

[B] Equipped to Improvise [\B]
You should probably add some sort of size and/or GP limit on this. I don't have a list of what counts as mundane, but I imagine someone will try to argue a catapult is mundane and is totally in their pockets right now! :smalltongue: In addition similar abilities always have a few other restrictions attached, such as that the mundane item can't be sold (hey I just found a mundane diamond in this guy's pocket, let's sell it!). Honestly I would just look up one of the magic items with similar effects and copy most of it's wording and just tweak size and gp limit of the item as you deem applicable.

[B]Instinctive Response

Yet another minor nitpick, but you may need to add a few more restrictions to make this make sense fluff wise. If I'm blind, deaf, and mute because of some magician's cruel joke can I still warn everyone of an attack? still, pretty minor problem, most won't ever notice anything unusual with it and a GM can always veto it when it doesn't make sense.

Leader's Aura

it states that "Any ally within 20 feet of you that can hear you benefits from your Leaders Aura". That's great, but what does leader's Aura do that they benefit from? I can understand by context your referring to the all the effects listed later on, but it's not explicit. Every ability written presume you already have a leader's aura without anything ever officially stating that you possess one or what it does.

I would rephrase to something like "you gain a leader's aura which benefits any ally within 20 feet that can hear you". or something along those lines. Or better yet just combine it with Inspiring Leader to describe the leader's aura as having that affect from the start so no one asks what benefit the aura does...

Inspiring Leader
I would change it to say when your attack lowers an any hp to 0 or lower, so noone can say "aww I reduced his hp to -1 instead of 0, no inspiration for anyone"


Deadly Leader
rephrase to reducing hp to 0 or lower as above.

In fact I would rephrase it to something like this "When an ally within the range of your Leaders Aura, including yourself, reduces an enemy to 0 hp on their turn they may immediately take an extra action. An Ally may only benefit from this affect once per turn"

Key difference being the part about getting the action if it's their turn. so that if I use an attack of opportunity or reaction or some other affect to kill someone when it's not my turn I shouldn't get to break the turn order to do another action.

I also added the once per turn thing so that someone can't use some sort of AOE attack to kill a dozen minions and get a dozen actions...which they could use to charge and then cleave another set of minions for more actions rinse & repeat until they wipe out an army of goblins in one turn :smallamused:

I also modified the phrasing to say they may take an extra action, so that someone who kills a foe with a bonus action *before* using their regular action explicitly gets two actions that turn.

orders [\B]
should these require a bonus action to use? thematically it sort of feels like it, but I don't know if you think that make them too weak. Also, is this per action, or per turn? You can get two actions a turn, is it okay for both of them to be used for an order? (not saying either are needed, but clarifying to ensure your intent)

[B]pour it on [\B]
how long does advantage last?


[B] Inspiring Presence
This seems like it may potentially slow down the game a little, having every team mate have to role a d20 every time you kill something, especially if your fighting lots of weak foes or are leading an army with dozens of allies. It also seems odd thematically that I may inspire an ally to, say, be able to move 15 feet but the ally doesn't choose to do it because he doesn't need to move.

If you keep the roll I would change it to the commander rolling and every inspired ally gets the same effect, it's quicker gameplay wise and makes mildly more sense. Though I might be tempted to remove the roll entirely and simply give a smaller list of options one may pick when inspired for simplicity sake.

As with deadly leader this should be changed to work only once per your turn to avoid an AOE inspiring a dozen times, and change it to working when lower hp below 0.

[B] Terrifying [\B]

I would put a cap on how far away an enemy can be to be terrified below level 15. Technically as written I can terrify someone on the other side of the world if he happens to be the nearest enemy to me when I land a crit pre 15. I'm a frightening guy :smalleek:.

Calen
2015-12-17, 09:14 PM
Hurrah! More feedback! :smallbiggrin:


Glad your appreciated it. The new version is fairly different but should work (I don't know 5e enough to say what amount of healing is balanced, but I'll assume it's right lol). One very minor nitpick on wording, if I use it with less then 10 hp do I die afterwards? :smalltongue: It's trivial, but I would toss in that you must have more then 1 hit die of hp left to avoid anyone trying to rule-lawyer a DM for some odd reason.

I never intended that you take damage from this skill. By spending a HD you are giving up the ability to heal your self later (via the rest rules)




Another small nitpick on wording, when you say "enemy that you are aware of that makes a melee attack against an ally within 5 feet of you" do you mean that the enemy needs to be within five feet or that the ally needs to be within five feet? Once this ability works for ranged that matters. Can I disadvantage a foe next to me shooting at an ally 30 ft away? or disadvantage an attack on an ally who is within 15 feet of me when the attacker is 30 ft away? Also, presumably the 15 feet from the last ability still applies to the ranged one, but may be best to make that explicit as well.



Ally within 5 feet. Will work on wording.



You should probably add some sort of size and/or GP limit on this. I don't have a list of what counts as mundane, but I imagine someone will try to argue a catapult is mundane and is totally in their pockets right now! :smalltongue: In addition similar abilities always have a few other restrictions attached, such as that the mundane item can't be sold (hey I just found a mundane diamond in this guy's pocket, let's sell it!). Honestly I would just look up one of the magic items with similar effects and copy most of it's wording and just tweak size and gp limit of the item as you deem applicable.


Added a line requiring DM approval. I based the original on the Kender race item acquiring.




Yet another minor nitpick, but you may need to add a few more restrictions to make this make sense fluff wise. If I'm blind, deaf, and mute because of some magician's cruel joke can I still warn everyone of an attack? still, pretty minor problem, most won't ever notice anything unusual with it and a GM can always veto it when it doesn't make sense.




it states that "Any ally within 20 feet of you that can hear you benefits from your Leaders Aura". That's great, but what does leader's Aura do that they benefit from? I can understand by context your referring to the all the effects listed later on, but it's not explicit. Every ability written presume you already have a leader's aura without anything ever officially stating that you possess one or what it does.

I would rephrase to something like "you gain a leader's aura which benefits any ally within 20 feet that can hear you". or something along those lines. Or better yet just combine it with Inspiring Leader to describe the leader's aura as having that affect from the start so no one asks what benefit the aura does...

Good point. Edited.





I would change it to say when your attack lowers an any hp to 0 or lower, so noone can say "aww I reduced his hp to -1 instead of 0, no inspiration for anyone"

rephrase to reducing hp to 0 or lower as above.


Per the rules you cant go below zero HP. When you deal damage to a target above 0 HP it will go to 0.



In fact I would rephrase it to something like this "When an ally within the range of your Leaders Aura, including yourself, reduces an enemy to 0 hp on their turn they may immediately take an extra action. An Ally may only benefit from this affect once per turn"

Key difference being the part about getting the action if it's their turn. so that if I use an attack of opportunity or reaction or some other affect to kill someone when it's not my turn I shouldn't get to break the turn order to do another action.

I also added the once per turn thing so that someone can't use some sort of AOE attack to kill a dozen minions and get a dozen actions...which they could use to charge and then cleave another set of minions for more actions rinse & repeat until they wipe out an army of goblins in one turn :smallamused:

I also modified the phrasing to say they may take an extra action, so that someone who kills a foe with a bonus action *before* using their regular action explicitly gets two actions that turn.

There is a built in limit to times of use. So your goblin army theroy wouldn't work. (Or the commander would have enough charisma to persuade them to take up a life of daffodil farming :smalltongue: ) Did make the changes though.



should these require a bonus action to use? thematically it sort of feels like it, but I don't know if you think that make them too weak. Also, is this per action, or per turn? You can get two actions a turn, is it okay for both of them to be used for an order? (not saying either are needed, but clarifying to ensure your intent)

Turned this into a bonus action.


pour it on [\B]
how long does advantage last?


Hmm I guess forever is a little over powered. :smalltongue:




[B] Inspiring Presence
This seems like it may potentially slow down the game a little, having every team mate have to role a d20 every time you kill something, especially if your fighting lots of weak foes or are leading an army with dozens of allies. It also seems odd thematically that I may inspire an ally to, say, be able to move 15 feet but the ally doesn't choose to do it because he doesn't need to move.

If you keep the roll I would change it to the commander rolling and every inspired ally gets the same effect, it's quicker gameplay wise and makes mildly more sense. Though I might be tempted to remove the roll entirely and simply give a smaller list of options one may pick when inspired for simplicity sake.


I will give this some thought.




I would put a cap on how far away an enemy can be to be terrified below level 15. Technically as written I can terrify someone on the other side of the world if he happens to be the nearest enemy to me when I land a crit pre 15. I'm a frightening guy :smalleek:.

I am a fount of terror! :smallfurious:

Fixed.


Thanks for all the feedback. It is much appreciated.

Steampunkette
2015-12-17, 11:42 PM
Move fighting style to level 1, add extra attack at 5.

I get this is meant to be a support class, but you need more than one long rest ability at level 1, and they need some kind of opportunity to do more than play straight support.

Also maybe make leader's aura into "hear you, see you, or both" so the commander can use hand gestures in ambush situations.

Calen
2015-12-18, 10:19 AM
Move fighting style to level 1, add extra attack at 5.

I get this is meant to be a support class, but you need more than one long rest ability at level 1, and they need some kind of opportunity to do more than play straight support.

Also maybe make leader's aura into "hear you, see you, or both" so the commander can use hand gestures in ambush situations.

Duly noted.

Thanks.

----

Also it struck me that Inspiring/ Inspiration could be confusing when dealing with a DM that hands out Inspiration or the Bardic Inspiration.
Any suggestion for some other words?

Kurt Kurageous
2015-12-18, 10:54 PM
I don't want to hijack your thread, but I just finished a fighter archetype I called "Commander." See if you can steal any ideas/inspiration from it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzHVsiBMMb98U09KM2RMbjZzMVk/view?usp=sharing

Summary of archetype with fighter level feats excel sheet, second sheet works out the number of cohorts/officers influenced (ridiculous, I know).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzHVsiBMMb98ZjVId2RHM0JmM1k/view?usp=sharing

dsollen
2015-12-21, 02:58 PM
just because rule lawyering is fun...


Deadly Leader
When you or one of your allies within your Leaders Aura reduces an enemy to 0 hp on their turn that creature may immediately take an extra action

So...if I reduce a goblin to 0 hp he get's to take a bonus action against me :smalleek:!? My leader sucks!:smallfurious:

I might change 'creature' to 'ally' to remove confusion as which entity the pronoun refers to :smalltongue:.

Calen
2015-12-22, 04:16 PM
My leader sucks!:smallfurious:

It is the soldiers duty to complain! I was just enabling it! :smallwink:

Thanks for the input.