Quick 5E Recreational substance rules?

[AstralFire]

I wasn't too happy with what I was finding on the web since it seemed to go against the 5E design principle of keeping it simple and with wiggle room, but I did want to have -some- rules for it. This is what I've been considering:


Ingesting Miragebloom allows the user to make an Intelligence saving throw, DC 12. Success allows a short rest to be completed in much less time. Failure gives the user disadvantage on all rolls based on the Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom ability scores, but they gain one use of inspiration which can be used until the end of the Miragebloom effect (typically an hour).
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Ingesting alcohol allows the user to make a Constitution saving throw. DC 12. Success allows a short rest to be completed in much less time. Failure gives the user disadvantage on all rolls based on the Dexterity, Intelligence, or Wisdom ability scores, but they gain one use of inspiration which can be used until the end of the alcoholic effect (typically an hour).

​Inspiration can only be gained once a day in this way. Excessive use of either substance may subject the user to addiction, in which case the user may suffer from a permanent level (or more) of exhaustion that cannot be cured without a corresponding period of abstinence or magic. Ingesting more can temporarily relieve up to half of the addiction-induced exhaustion levels.

Are there any major issues that people can see with this? I'm still not terribly confident in my homebrew skill when it comes to 5E.

[Douche]

2 things:

One, if you're going to make addiction a mechanic, you should make the criteria for becoming addicted clear-cut... not just "well the DM decided you've been smoking a lot of crack recently. You're addicted now!". In Fallout, you have a 10% chance of getting addicted to any particular drug each time you use it. You could get addicted on your first try, or use it throughout the game and never suffer addiction if you're lucky. You may want to use that.. Perhaps add a cumulative effect. Lets say you have a 10% chance, so if you roll 1 or 2 on a d20, you're addicted. The more times you use it, you could add a negative modifier akin to ability scores. So if they've used alcohol 14 times, then they get a -2 modifier. Thus, they'd gain an addiction if they roll a 4 or less.

Two, do you have any other effects besides helping them gain a short rest? I'm just curious, cuz I'd like to know what kinds of ideas y'all have for cool effects other than aiding in rest (because, lets be real, who doesn't injest a bit of Miragebloom after a long day to help relax?)

[Tanarii]

Rule #1: make sure to give them plenty of time to wear off during game play so it's safe to drive home.

[Estrillian]

Do a Saving Throw, if they fail by more than 5 then they are addicted. If an addict doesn't get a dose each day then they have disadvantage on (something). This can be cured by a Lesser Restoration.

[AstralFire]

2 things:

One, if you're going to make addiction a mechanic, you should make the criteria for becoming addicted clear-cut... not just "well the DM decided been smoking a lot of crack recently. You're addicted now!". In Fallout, you have a 10% chance of getting addicted to any particular drug each time you use it. You could get addicted on your first try, or use it throughout the game and never suffer addiction if you're lucky. You may want to use that.. Perhaps add a cumulative effect. Lets say you have a 10% chance, so if you roll 1 or 2 on a d20, you're addicted. The more times you use it, you could add a negative modifier akin to ability scores. So if they've used alcohol 14 times, then they get a -2 modifier. Thus, they'd gain an addiction if they roll a 4 or less.

Two, do you have any other effects besides helping them gain a short rest? I'm just curious, cuz I'd like to know what kinds of ideas y'all have for cool effects other than aiding in rest (because, lets be real, who doesn't injest a bit of Miragebloom after a long day to help relax?)

My problem with Fallout's method of handling it is that addiction doesn't really work that way with mild substances, and addiction is something that -is- very unclear in real life. I don't want hard and fast rules that can be gamed, but I don't want players terrified of using it once a week, either.


Ingesting Miragebloom allows the user to make an Intelligence saving throw, DC 12. Success allows a short or long rest to be completed in much less time. Failure gives the user disadvantage on all rolls based on the Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom ability scores, but they gain advantage on ability checks related to knowledge or creativity; for example, a user is disadvantaged when using the Medicine skill to treat someone, but gains advantage instead when using the Medicine skill to devise a new treatment plan with Intelligence. Each failed saving throw against an additional dose in a single day requires the user to eat a day's worth of food within one hour, or take 2d4 psychic damage.
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Ingesting a dose of alcohol allows the user to make a Constitution saving throw, DC 12. Success allows a short or long rest to be completed in much less time. Failure gives the user disadvantage on all rolls based on the Dexterity, Intelligence, or Wisdom ability scores, and they become vulnerable to psychic damage; however, they have resistance to all other types of damage for the first round of any encounter. Generally, a dose of alcohol is equal to 12 beers, 4 glasses of wine, or one shot of a hard liquor. Each failed saving throw against an additional dose in a single day causes the user to take 2d4 poison damage after one hour, and be poisoned for 12 hours afterwards.
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Excessive, consistent use may subject the user to addiction. Generally speaking, if you fail a save against a recreational substance on three or fewer days in a week, you're at no risk of becoming addicted; failing saves more frequently than this may addict you at GM discretion. Becoming addicted the first time subjects you to a permanent level of exhaustion that cannot be removed by normal means, though it can be temporarily ignored by taking another dose of the substance. Subsequent addictions increase the effective exhaustion level by one. You cannot gain more than one level of addiction per month in total, but you can regain a level of addiction that was magically cured that month.
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One level of addiction can be removed by a period of abstinence ​equaling a month, or with one spell that cures a disease (spells which cure all diseases remove all addiction levels).

This is as specific as I am willing to get. I've incorporated the lesser restoration suggestion into the addiction rules a bit.

[tieren]

My hermit discovered a heretofore unknown herb which can cure nonmagical blindness but causes hunger.

[Submortimer]

I would steal heavily from the concept Fallout uses for drugs: Some benefit for a duration, potentially a downside, severe downside if addicted. Have the addiction function off of increasingly harder to pass saving throws: Con saves for physical, Wis saves for mental. While I get that addiction doesn't work like that in real life, if you're going to acknowledge in game the mechanic is going to have to be "Game-ified" a bit.

If you want to include an OD mechanic, you can, just have some sort of massive penalty for ingesting the substance too many times in a given time period. this isn't really necessary, but could be a good limiter.

Drugs
When imbibing a drug, you gain a benefit at the cost of some sort of penalty. Drugs effects and penalties last for the amount of time specified or until you take a long rest, whichever is shorter, unless otherwise specified. When consuming a drug, you must make a saving throw against it's addiction DC: failure causes you to become addicted. While addicted, you gain one permanent level of exhaustion; this level of exhaustion can be suppressed until your next long rest by consuming another dose of the drug. For Physical drugs, this counts as a saving throw against Poison; for mental drugs, this counts as a saving throw against Charm effects.
Some drugs have an overdose effect, an immediate negative effect caused by consuming too much of the drug in a short period of time, i.e. between long rests. In the case of Physical drugs, the threshold is twice your constitution modifier; for mental drugs, it is twice your Wisdom modifier.
Addiction effects and lingering overdose effects can be cured by the lesser restoration spell or similar effects that cure the poisoned condition.

Alcohol
Type: Physical
Benefit: For one hour, you have advantage on saving throws against fear effects. For each additional dose you take, the effects last for an additional hour and you gain a cumulative +1 to those saving throws.
Penalty: For one hour, you have disadvantage on Perception checks. For each additional dose you take, the effects last for an additional hour and you gain a cumulative -1 to those checks.
OD: When you consume too much alcohol, you must make a constitution saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + 1 for each dose you consumed. Success renders you unconscious; failure renders you unconscious and you take 1d6 poison damage for each dose you consumed.
Addiction: DC = 8 + 1 for each day in a row you consume the drug.

Greenweed
Type: Mental
Benefit: For 1 hour, you have advantage on insight checks. For each additional dose you take, the effects last for an additional hour.
Penalty: For 1 hour, you have disadvantage on perception checks. For each additional dose you take, the effects last for an additional hour.
Addiction: DC = 8 + 1 for each day in a row you consume the drug.

Quickdust
Type: Physical
Benefit: For one hour, your movement speed increases by 10 feet and you have advantage on initiative checks. For each additional dose you take, you gain a cumulative +1 to initiative checks.
Penalty: For one hour, you have disadvantage on all Persuasion and Deception checks. For each additional dose you take, the effects last for an additional hour.
OD: When you consume too much quickdust, you make a constitution saving throw with a DC equal to 15 + 1 for each dose you consumed. Failure causes you to gain one level of exhaustion for each dose you consumed.
Addiction: DC = 12 + 1 for each day in a row you consume the drug.

Wizard's Toadstool
Type: Mental
Benefit: For one hour, you gain Advantage on insight checks, and you may use the Guidance cantrip(targeting yourself only) once during the duration. For each additional dose, the effects last for an additional hour and you gain an additional use of Guidance.
Penalty: You have disadvantage on Investigation checks and on saving throws against Charm effects. For each additional dose, the effects last for an additional hour.
OD: When you consume too much Wizard's Toadstool, you make a constitution saving throw and a wisdom saving throw, each with a DC = 10 + 1 for each additional dose you consumed. If you fail the Constitution saving throw, you gain the poisoned condition until you take a long rest; if you fail the wisdom saving throw, you go insane, causing you to have disadvantage on all wisdom based skill checks and saving throws.
Addiction: DC = 10 + 1 for each day in a row you consume the drug.

[AstralFire]

Those are some interesting effects, but I want to avoid the temptation to set a pattern of incremental stacking modifiers/DCs; it just feels like it belongs more in 3E. Thanks for the input, I'll think it over.

Personally speaking, were I a player, I'd look at the chance to get addicted off even a single drink and go "...but then I just never want to take the chance of having a drink ever" and that's why my players and I never bothered much with alcohol rules in 3E.

[Mjolnirbear]

Scientifically, addiction happens when life sucks. Depression, stress, grief, money problems, bad marriage, ptsd... If you're trying to escape something, you are much more likely to become addicted.

Joe is trippin' on shrooms. He's having a great time. His career is moving quickly, he just celebrated his second anniversary, and he's I. Great health. Low chance of addiction.

John however is on the verge of bankruptcy. His kid needs braces and he thinks his wife is sleeping with the neighbour. His shrooms experience is much more likely to be a "what a relief" kind of deal than a"this is awesome" mindset. John is standing in the edge of addiction and leaning over to have a good look.

In Dnd terms, do a roll whenever the character is in dire straights. On a one, then the next time they imbibe, they get addicted. If they never take anything or drink, they are safe. If they are happy, they are safe. Otherwise the more rolls you make, the more likely there will be an addiction.

[Submortimer]

Those are some interesting effects, but I want to avoid the temptation to set a pattern of incremental stacking modifiers/DCs; it just feels like it belongs more in 3E. Thanks for the input, I'll think it over.

Personally speaking, were I a player, I'd look at the chance to get addicted off even a single drink and go "...but then I just never want to take the chance of having a drink ever" and that's why my players and I never bothered much with alcohol rules in 3E.

I hear you. In a standard DnD setting, addiction penalties as I've presented them would pose little risk for most player characters: the saving throw against physical drugs counts as a poison saving throw (so dwarves and the like are highly resistant to the effects of alcohol), and mental drugs are a charm effect (so Elrond Leafwind can trip balls on shrooms all the time without worrying about it). Aside from that, you can get rid if the effects with Lesser Restoration, a 2nd level spell.

Where rules like this should be used are in a low magic, gritty setting where magic is not so readily available. The benefits should be good enough to tempt the players into using them, but with penalties that will still make them think twice.

[Mr.Moron]

Where rules like this should be used are in a low magic, gritty setting where magic is not so readily available. The benefits should be good enough to tempt the players into using them, but with penalties that will still make them think twice.

Why do you need to tempt them with mechanics? Either the the PC is either interesting in getting loopy or not. You don't need to add some some "because it also makes you kick ass" rider to that. The benefits of using drugs is that it feels good, at least for a time. Not (generally), that it makes you better at your job.

I think it's probably just more interesting as an RP opportunity than some kind of combat benefit/combat drawback balancing act.

EDIT: You can certainly have mechanics for the drawbacks/addiction path per the OP's request. I just meant it doesn't have to be offset with some kind of "Upside" beyond, hey the character enjoys it.

[lunaticfringe]

Scientifically, addiction happens when life sucks. Depression, stress, grief, money problems, bad marriage, ptsd... If you're trying to escape something, you are much more likely to become addicted.

Joe is trippin' on shrooms. He's having a great time. His career is moving quickly, he just celebrated his second anniversary, and he's I. Great health. Low chance of addiction.

John however is on the verge of bankruptcy. His kid needs braces and he thinks his wife is sleeping with the neighbour. His shrooms experience is much more likely to be a "what a relief" kind of deal than a"this is awesome" mindset. John is standing in the edge of addiction and leaning over to have a good look.

In Dnd terms, do a roll whenever the character is in dire straights. On a one, then the next time they imbibe, they get addicted. If they never take anything or drink, they are safe. If they are happy, they are safe. Otherwise the more rolls you make, the more likely there will be an addiction.

John is in no danger of addiction because he's taking shrooms. A side effect of of magic mushrooms (and most psychedelic drugs) is that you have a really high tolerance for a few days after taking them. If John ingests another dose of shrooms the day after his first trip he will feel nothing. You can't trip 2 nights in a row.

Also the most realistic scenario if John trips while his life is in a downward spiral is that he has a hellish 8 hour Bad Trip and will most likely never, never, never, ever want to take mushrooms again. Never go on a hallucinogenic drug trip when your dealing with a lot of doom & gloom its terrible.

Other than that your logic is sound.

[Submortimer]

Also the most realistic scenario if John trips while his life is in a downward spiral is that he has a hellish 8 hour Bad Trip and will most likely never, never, never, ever want to take mushrooms again. Never go on a hallucinogenic drug trip when your dealing with a lot of doom & gloom its terrible.


Which is why failing that OD save drives you nuts :-)

These are DnD approximations of drugs: Alcohol makes you brave but clumsy, weed mellows you out, shrooms/peyote (Wizard Toadstool should work for both) gives you flashes of insight but might drive you crazy, coke makes you fast but might make your heart explode, and morphine allows you to resist pain, but might also stop your heart.

[Douche]

Why do you need to tempt them with mechanics? Either the the PC is either interesting in getting loopy or not. You don't need to add some some "because it also makes you kick ass" rider to that. The benefits of using drugs is that it feels good, at least for a time. Not (generally), that it makes you better at your job.

I think it's probably just more interesting as an RP opportunity than some kind of combat benefit/combat drawback balancing act.

EDIT: You can certainly have mechanics for the drawbacks/addiction path per the OP's request. I just meant it doesn't have to be offset with some kind of "Upside" beyond, hey the character enjoys it.

Because it's still a game, and no one but heavy roleplayers would willingly get addicted to drugs and hinder themselves with no upside.

Besides that, some drugs do give you benefits in real life. Stimulants can help you study, increase your stamina, reduce your hunger, etc. Football players often abuse painkillers so they can keep getting tackled and walk it off. Hallucinogens increase your creativity or help you think metaphorically/symbolically.

On top of that, there's a long history in the real world of shaman and other religious figures, tripping balls and believing that gives them the power to do a rain dance. Why wouldn't you want to explore something like that in a fantasy setting where magic actually exists?

[JackPhoenix]

Those are some interesting effects, but I want to avoid the temptation to set a pattern of incremental stacking modifiers/DCs; it just feels like it belongs more in 3E. Thanks for the input, I'll think it over.

There's a precedent, though: DC to avoid exhaustion from Forced March increases by 1/hour

[Mr.Moron]

Because it's still a game, and no one but heavy roleplayers would willingly get addicted to drugs and hinder themselves with no upside.

Besides that, some drugs do give you benefits in real life. Stimulants can help you study, increase your stamina, reduce your hunger, etc. Football players often abuse painkillers so they can keep getting tackled and walk it off. Hallucinogens increase your creativity or help you think metaphorically/symbolically.

On top of that, there's a long history in the real world of shaman and other religious figures, tripping balls and believing that gives them the power to do a rain dance. Why wouldn't you want to explore something like that in a fantasy setting where magic actually exists?

If we're going with "Drugs as mystic connection to gods" fine. Let them be that. No addiction rules no crazy drawbacks. Light up and get magic powers from the great snake spirit.
If we're going with "Drugs as mind-altering recreational substances that lead to addiction" let them be that. No making you smarter, or letting you wrestle bears. Light up, feel good - maybe wind up a junkie.

Meeting this halfway with "Drugs as power ups with drawbacks because meta game balance demands it" does very little to treat either possible way of viewing them with very much respect. It also feels very artificial.

"Power Ups with drawbacks" is fine game construct but they'd be better served by being framed as something other than addictive "drugs", designed with benefits and drawbacks that fit their place in a setting. Rather than "Cocaine that makes you run faster, because we want cocaine but nobody will take it unless it gives you a super power" with a funny name slapped on it.

[JackPhoenix]

You can have both at the same time, though...cheaper stuff for normal people without any extra benefits...alcohol, tobacco, weed, opium, etc.

And then the substances that have actual benefits, but are much more expensive and rare.

You want to relax? You take the first category, almost anybody can afford that. You are desperate enough for an edge in combat you'll risk drawbacks and addiction to a stuff that will cost you a fortune? Go ahead with the second option. But you don't buy combat stimms for recreation purposes and vice versa.

The "drugs needs to have some good effect for anyone to take them" led to some stupid things in previous editions. In PF, there is a drug named Harlot Sweets, it gives a small bonus to charisma at the cost of some intelligence damage, it's 60g per dose, reasonable price for the effects...that's all fine for the "expensive stuff with actual effects" category, but by fluff, it's named after the fact that many prostitutes abuse it...but how do they afford it? IIRC (not sure if from tables on PFSRD or from some 3.5 book), average prostitute costs around 5 silver a night. How can they abuse a substance they can afford a once every 4 months, and that only if they don't have to eat in the meantime?