Huge Player Race

[LoyalPaladin]

Hey everybody,
Quick question, as I'm in a bit of a hurry to turn in a character concept to my group. Does anybody know of a decent LA huge player race? I can't seem to find one with my google powers.

Cheers!
-LP

Edit:
I forgot to mention that is is for a 3.5 campaign!

[Troacctid]

I doubt you'll find any with a reasonable ECL. Huge creatures tend to have lots of racial hit dice.

Off the top of my head, a lycanthrope or entomanothrope can do it.

[Flickerdart]

Do you need to be Huge all the time? As mentioned, a were-creature could be Large normally and become Huge when it transforms into its alternate form. A psychic warrior can augment expansion to become Huge, a druid can Wildshape into a Huge guy, etc.

[Dread_Head]

Some of the Half Fiend variants allow you to go up to huge is applied to a Large base race. An example is the Half Goristro (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a). For the large race I'd suggest Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale (gives total of 3 RHD, 4 LA) or Half Minotaur (total 5 LA).

[Thealtruistorc]

Half-Ogre Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale is huge with LA +1 and 3 racial Hit Die. Does that suit your purpose?

[FocusWolf413]

A half minotaur goliath is large, but it is treated as huge for wielding weapons, grappling, etc.

[torrasque666]

Half-Ogre Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale is huge with LA +1 and 3 racial Hit Die. Does that suit your purpose?
If you're referring to the one from Dragon 313, it only gains a size if you're Medium or Small. Same with Half-Minotaur. You'd just wind up as large.

[Lhurgyof]

Play a Goliath or Jotunbrud human and then have Enlarge Person cast on you followed by Permanency.

[Flickerdart]

Play a Goliath or Jotunbrud human and then have Enlarge Person cast on you followed by Permanency.
Nope, doesn't work.

Jotunbrud: "you are treated as Large if that's advantageous to you" on combat maneuvers and against monster special attacks and that's it. Not only is Jotunbrud not true large size, it doesn't stack with enlarge person because Jotunbrud says "large" and not "one size larger."

Goliath: As monstrous humanoids and not humanoids, goliaths can't benefit from enlarge person.

[Venger]

Do you need to be Huge all the time? As mentioned, a were-creature could be Large normally and become Huge when it transforms into its alternate form. A psychic warrior can augment expansion to become Huge, a druid can Wildshape into a Huge guy, etc.

This is probably the easiest way to go about it.

Personally, I would suggest getting reliable access to alter self, rolling the large race that interests you most, and then just turn into a constrictor naga when you need to be huge, if you don't need to be huge 24/7.

[LoyalPaladin]

I doubt you'll find any with a reasonable ECL. Huge creatures tend to have lots of racial hit dice.
Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush and I should have been more clear. I can remove all racial hit die, but not the flat LA. I was looking for a huge stone giant, basically.


Do you need to be Huge all the time?
I am trying to be huge all the time!

I will look over everything you guys posted! Thank you all for the info and suggestions!

[Malimar]

The lowest I can find outside of the various template shenanigans suggested above is Constrictor Shinomen Naga from Oriental Adventures at ECL8 (LA+4).

[Troacctid]

Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush and I should have been more clear. I can remove all racial hit die, but not the flat LA. I was looking for a huge stone giant, basically.

In that case, you definitely want a lycanthrope. Were-Battletitan (MM3) should do nicely.

Edit: Although a Half-Ogre who becomes afflicted while under the effects of an augmented Expansion power could do one better and become an entomanothrope based on a devastation vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm#), which seems pretty busted.

[Lhurgyof]

Nope, doesn't work.

Jotunbrud: "you are treated as Large if that's advantageous to you" on combat maneuvers and against monster special attacks and that's it. Not only is Jotunbrud not true large size, it doesn't stack with enlarge person because Jotunbrud says "large" and not "one size larger."

Goliath: As monstrous humanoids and not humanoids, goliaths can't benefit from enlarge person.

Damn. Oh well, I tired lol.

Can Expansion be Incarnated?

[LoyalPaladin]

The lowest I can find outside of the various template shenanigans suggested above is Constrictor Shinomen Naga from Oriental Adventures at ECL8 (LA+4).
Is the formula for calculating level adjustment CR/2=LA?


In that case, you definitely want a lycanthrope. Were-Battletitan (MM3) should do nicely.

Edit: Although a Half-Ogre who becomes afflicted while under the effects of an augmented Expansion power could do one better and become an entomanothrope based on a devastation vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm#), which seems pretty busted.
This will require research.

[enderlord99]

Is the formula for calculating level adjustment CR/2=LA?

I'm pretty sure it's CR-HD=LA.

Actually, it might be CR-ECL=LA, but I don't know of any times when ECL is different from HD, so... yeah.

[Troacctid]

I'm pretty sure it's CR-HD=LA.

Actually, it might be CR-ECL=LA, but I don't know of any times when ECL is different from HD, so... yeah.

ECL is different from HD for any creature that has a level adjustment. LA + HD = ECL.

CR is not used to calculate LA; while there is some correlation (high-CR creatures often have high LA), there is no direct relationship between the two. A creature's LA is based on its suitability for player characters (as eyeballed by the designer), and is given in its monster entry.

For a more thorough overview of LA mechanics, I suggest reading Urpriest's Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook).

[LoyalPaladin]

I'm pretty sure it's CR-HD=LA.
I'm hoping there is some sort of calculation for



CR is not used to calculate LA; while there is some correlation (high-CR creatures often have high LA), there is no direct relationship between the two. A creature's LA is based on its suitability for player characters (as eyeballed by the designer), and is given in its monster entry.
Darnit. I feel like if I want to play a Terrasque with a 30 LA, I should be able to play the Terrasque with a 30 LA! Haha.


For a more thorough overview of LA mechanics, I suggest reading Urpriest's Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook).
That is a great handbook. I just sent that to my regular table.

[Flickerdart]

I'm hoping there is some sort of calculation for
There's not. There are guidelines in Savage Species for estimating LA, but they are not very good. The general idea is, compare the monster to a character of the same level and ask yourself, is this creature better than that character? If yes, add +1 LA and ask yourself that question again.

The Tarrasque really shouldn't have any LA - compared to a 48th level character, he sucks hopelessly.

[LoyalPaladin]

There's not. There are guidelines in Savage Species for estimating LA, but they are not very good. The general idea is, compare the monster to a character of the same level and ask yourself, is this creature better than that character? If yes, add +1 LA and ask yourself that question again.
That... is the worst idea ever.

[Flickerdart]

That... is the worst idea ever.
I'm sorry you feel that way. But the entire point of Level Adjustment is to bring a powerful race in line with comparable options, and this is the only reliable way to do it. If you can't be bothered, then use the printed LAs and simply don't play monsters that have not been assigned one.

[Necroticplague]

Some of the Half Fiend variants allow you to go up to huge is applied to a Large base race. An example is the Half Goristro (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a). For the large race I'd suggest Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale (gives total of 3 RHD, 4 LA) or Half Minotaur (total 5 LA).

Actually, Half-goristros are huge size regardless of the base creature. Them Half-goristro entry simply says "huge outsider" (separate from the example). Bit on the pricy side with the LA, but one of the lower ECL ways I can think of.

Actually, I can think of one other method that has a lower ECL. You could use the Symbiotic template to make yourself the Guest of a Huge creature for a mere LA+1. I've seen Symbiotic not banned the second it's brought up to the DM exactly zero times, though, so it might be a bit of a hard sell.

[LoyalPaladin]

I'm sorry you feel that way. But the entire point of Level Adjustment is to bring a powerful race in line with comparable options, and this is the only reliable way to do it. If you can't be bothered, then use the printed LAs and simply don't play monsters that have not been assigned one.
I only feel like it's a poor idea because there would be a lot of player/DM level adjustment disagreements and the level of optimization would play into it as well.

I like the concept in theory, but I feel like in practice it'd be way more difficult...


Actually, I can think of one other method that has a lower ECL. You could use the Symbiotic template to make yourself the Guest of a Huge creature for a mere LA+1. I've seen Symbiotic not banned the second it's brought up to the DM exactly zero times, though, so it might be a bit of a hard sell.
Haha. I'm a LA+1 Cloud Giant now.

[Flickerdart]

I only feel like it's a poor idea because there would be a lot of player/DM level adjustment disagreements and the level of optimization would play into it as well.

I like the concept in theory, but I feel like in practice it'd be way more difficult...
Well, yes. Whenever you are modifying anything from the printed game, you need to take your party into account and come to a consensus between the DM and players. That's true of anything.

[LoyalPaladin]

Well, yes. Whenever you are modifying anything from the printed game, you need to take your party into account and come to a consensus between the DM and players. That's true of anything.
Definitely true, I just know that certain things at my table are more likely to get the ban hammer brought down upon them, deserved or not. Example, our Glaive-lock is totally fine, but prestiging at level 6 was a stretch and "abusing the rules for the sake of optimization". I'm a Paladin/Fist of Raziel.

Edit:
I should point out that I really really like my DM and that he is awesome. But he is an old school D&D player that would prefer we play 20 levels in a base class, or something along those lines.

[Flickerdart]

Then monster races probably aren't for your table in the first place.

[Necroticplague]

Haha. I'm a LA+1 Cloud Giant now.

Sadly, not quite legal. Both halves the Symbiotic Creature have to be have to be Humanoid, Animal,Plant, or Vermin (I know, really small list of valid types). Giants aren't valid things to add it to.Thankfully, WoTC has granted us the power of template stacking, so a half-(white-red-black-lung-topaz-blue) dragon half-fey, greenbound Cloud Giant is (as a plant).

[LoyalPaladin]

Then monster races probably aren't for your table in the first place.
Which, unfortunately, is also not true. The Glaive-Lock is a Yuan-Ti. I should also point out that I like our glaive-lock as well.


Sadly, not quite legal. Both halves the Symbiotic Creature have to be have to be Humanoid, Animal,Plant, or Vermin (I know, really small list of valid types). Giants aren't valid things to add it to.Thankfully, WoTC has granted us the power of template stacking, so a half-(white-red-black-lung-topaz-blue) dragon half-fey, greenbound Cloud Giant is (as a plant).
Anything is possible through the magic of template stacking!

[ShurikVch]

I can remove all racial hit die, but not the flat LA. I was looking for a huge stone giant, basically.Greater Cyclopes (Deities & Demigods) are Huge-sized, and only LA +3

[LoyalPaladin]

Greater Cyclopes (Deities & Demigods) are Huge-sized, and only LA +3
They would fit the bill! But I don't see the LA in print?

[ShurikVch]

They would fit the bill! But I don't see the LA in print?There is official Update Booklet (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnD35_Deities_and_Demigods.zip) for Deities & Demigods.

[Inevitability]

They would fit the bill! But I don't see the LA in print?

It's in the errata, I believe.

[LoyalPaladin]

There is official Update Booklet (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnD35_Deities_and_Demigods.zip) for Deities & Demigods.

It's in the errata, I believe.
That's perfect!

[Iku Rex]

LA is supposed to be used with the racial HD to get ECL. If you just use the LA you are getting a major free power boost.

Anyway, treants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/treant.htm) are a decent Huge race for PCs.

[LoyalPaladin]

Anyway, treants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/treant.htm) are a decent Huge race for PCs.
Treants look like they could make a decent paladin!

[Flickerdart]

Treants look like they could make a decent paladin!

That's true - decent paladins do tend to take 8 or fewer levels in the class, after all.

[LoyalPaladin]

That's true - decent paladins do tend to take 8 or fewer levels in the class, after all.
Also true. I mean, I'm personally only 6 levels into Paladin. The rest are hell reaver and fist of Raziel.

[Flickerdart]

Also true. I mean, I'm personally only 6 levels into Paladin. The rest are hell reaver and fist of Raziel.
In the case of a treant, you'd only get as far as one in each. 7 RHD and 5 LA is a nasty burden for someone who wants class features.

[LoyalPaladin]

In the case of a treant, you'd only get as far as one in each. 7 RHD and 5 LA is a nasty burden for someone who wants class features.
That's why I'm an aasimar.