New DM needs a quick challenge check.

[Draconi Redfir]

So i'm still kinda new with this DMing thing, and i've made my own mistakes admittedly. but i want to make sure that this near-final fight of my campain goes well enough to be memmorable.

As it is, the PC's (three level sevens (Sorrcerer, Rogue, shaman) and one large-sized NPC with one fighter level and four racial hit die) are going to be pit against a group of terrorists in a large city, i'm hoping i can pull of eight of them for this one fight, with maybe more for annother one after that. but i'm not really sure what level they should be, it'd be sort of like they're fighting annother group of class-level individuals i'm thinking, a fighter, a ranger, a monk, barbarian, cleric, etc. i have them at around level three or four, but i'm not sure if that would be challenging enough for the party or not.

Basically what i'm asking is this; What level would eight opponents need to be roughly to be a challenging fight against three level seven PC's, and one very powerful level 5 NPC (Who may be removed from the fight early on if needed) does anyone have any idea?

Sorry for the vauge info, slightly paranoid my players might visit this website, but they probably don't. i can give more info if needed.

[MisterKaws]

For a moderate challenge, something like four lvl 3s and 4 lvl 4s, for a really tough fight, four lvl 4s and four lvl 5s.

[nedz]

This really depends upon how good your players are and how strong their builds are - which we don't know.

It also depends upon the set up, which in a city could be anything, and also how well you build/play the bad guys.

FWIW the XP calculator gives these answers.

8 x CR 1 EL 6 Easy
8 x CR 2 EL 8 Very Difficult
8 x CR 3 EL 9 Very Difficult
8 x CR 4 EL 10 Very Difficult
8 x CR 5 EL 11 Overpowering

Obviously the 8 x CR 2 rating is nonsense and I'm not convinced by the 8 x CR 3 rating either.

I'd be tempted to go with level 4-5 but have them turn up in dribs and drabs over a number of rounds rather than en mass — as an ambush this would be very much harder.

[Draconi Redfir]

awsome, thanks guys!