Little homebrew question.

[Zaetar]

I've checked several texts for refference when making new classes and races. But there is something that annoys me to no end and I have no idea why its written that way.

Why on earth are all classes refered to as "she"? "She gains this", "She gains that", "Her thing is...", "it affects Her".

[ImperatorV]

It's arbitrary. They could use "he," but there's no reason to go with one or the other. They chose to use "she" for whatever reason, but there's nothing preventing others from doing something different.

[Darth Ultron]

It is not like it matters, right?

Why do you think ''he'' is normal, but ''she'' annoys you?

[DrMotives]

It's probably to compensate for all the previous editions (and manuals in general, not even just rpg stuff) defaulting to male pronouns. When I was a kid, there were about 4 to 5 boys playing D&D for every girl I found playing. Now, I dunno. I play with my daughters and their friends, so I think my sample is too biased to be useful, but maybe it's better.

[Droopy McCool]

Well, looking at the PHB alone, every class has pronouns matching the example image provided. I don't want to check every book to see if they follow suit, but I'll assume they do. Also, the PHB has more "He this" and "He that" then "She" stuff anyway.

To answer your question though, just pick a reason. Could be anything. Preference? Advocating? Self-reflection? Coulda said "Let's show some gender equality!" or even "Why don't we make the Wizard a woman? I have a cool idea for the picture." I can guarantee there is no one answer.

[PseudoPanda]

In the PHB (or, at least mine) it actually varies depending on the character depicted in that section. For example Jozan the Cleric is shown in the cleric section so the cleric section uses masculine pronouns and Lidda the rogue is shown in that section so the pronouns are feminine. Obviously I don't know about every single class and prestige class out there but it might be that in other cases.

[torrasque666]

In the PHB (or, at least mine) it actually varies depending on the character depicted in that section. For example Jozan the Cleric is shown in the cleric section so the cleric section uses masculine pronouns and Lidda the rogue is shown in that section so the pronouns are feminine. Obviously I don't know about every single class and prestige class out there but it might be that in other cases.
Its usually follows that pattern. It tends to use the same pronouns as the sample character for a class.

[bekeleven]

Its usually follows that pattern. It tends to use the same pronouns as the sample character for a class.

Yep. Most homebrewers tend to follow this pattern, although to my knowledge, I'm the only one who ever made a class with a genderless iconic. (It makes the phrasing somewhat awkward, and I don't plan to do it again.)

[Zaetar]

It is not like it matters, right?

Why do you think ''he'' is normal, but ''she'' annoys you?

Because its EVERYWHERE. It's hard to find "he/his".

[Xuldarinar]

Because its EVERYWHERE. It's hard to find "he/his".

Try finding it/its.
Or Ze/Zir, Xe/Xyr, Ve/Vis, ect.

Its next to impossible.. but I digress.


In terms of finding he/his in home-brew, its a combination of preference and the pronoun of the classes one tends to work from. For instance, I brew off and on for pathfinder. While the classes lean towards he/his (at least the core classes), the classes I tend to work from happen to be she/her. This is because, for whatever reason, more of the core spellcasting classes are female than male, and spellcasting classes require less work to brew for or from, and yet somehow have so much more room for creativity. Try coming up with a unique spellcaster, based around a theme, and the tools are just sitting there. Now try coming up with a new and exciting way to wave around a sharp piece of metal.

[Zaetar]

Try finding it/its.
Or Ze/Zir, Xe/Xyr, Ve/Vis, ect.

Its next to impossible.. but I digress.


In terms of finding he/his in home-brew, its a combination of preference and the pronoun of the classes one tends to work from. For instance, I brew off and on for pathfinder. While the classes lean towards he/his (at least the core classes), the classes I tend to work from happen to be she/her. This is because, for whatever reason, more of the core spellcasting classes are female than male, and spellcasting classes require less work to brew for or from, and yet somehow have so much more room for creativity. Try coming up with a unique spellcaster, based around a theme, and the tools are just sitting there. Now try coming up with a new and exciting way to wave around a sharp piece of metal.

Im making a class named Forest Lord. Kind of makes me think of a "he" rather than "she"

[SovelsAtaask]

Then use "he." Problem solved.

[Elxir_Breauer]

WotC has actually stated, iirc, that they use both pronouns interchangeably within their products in order to appeal more broadly to their INTENDED player base, which is pretty much everyone. In any case where you find a gendered pronoun, it is merely applying to the sample character for that case (whether it be a feat, class, skill, etc.) It should actually be in either the Player's Handbook or the Dungeon Master's Guide, pretty early in the book.

Edit to add: In any case where you are homebrewing a Class with a gender/sex requirement, please remember to put that in the requirements section. The only official class I can think of right now with such a restriction is actually Incantatrix (female requirement), though a few 3rd party classes are also that way (Celebrant of Sharess and Sacred Prostitute from the BoEF come to mind specifically). Also remember to exclusively use the appropriate pronouns within the descriptions.

[Abithrios]

Try finding it/its.
Or Ze/Zir, Xe/Xyr, Ve/Vis, ect.

Its next to impossible.. but I digress.


What about "they". "They" is a perfectly acceptable way of referring to one person of unknown gender.

[ComaVision]

Edit to add: In any case where you are homebrewing a Class with a gender/sex requirement, please remember to put that in the requirements section. The only official class I can think of right now with such a restriction is actually Incantatrix (female requirement),

There's also Beloved of Valarian and Eunuch Warlock

[Âmesang]

Player's Guide to Faerûn seems to indicate that males are free to become "incantatars," though it's rare.

[Sian]

There's also Beloved of Valarian and Eunuch Warlock

And Battle Maiden (OA), and Scourge Maiden (FR:SS) and Swanmay (BoED)

[Segev]

Because SJWs like to demand everybody acknowledge how different they are, and celebrate that difference, and then pretend that difference is mainstream. Because to do anything else is to be a bigot. And that includes not doing everything they demand based on their difference, which you aren't supposed to notice, but if you ignore it you're also a bigot for ignoring how special, picked on, and abused they are.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You can also use you/yours, which is totally gender neutral and I swear is fairly widespread, though I'm AFB right now and can't look for examples.


Because SJWs like to demand everybody acknowledge how different they are, and celebrate that difference, and then pretend that difference is mainstream. Because to do anything else is to be a bigot. And that includes not doing everything they demand based on their difference, which you aren't supposed to notice, but if you ignore it you're also a bigot for ignoring how special, picked on, and abused they are.
You, uh, probably want to avoid posting RL politics stuff.

[Segev]

You can also use you/yours, which is totally gender neutral and I swear is fairly widespread, though I'm AFB right now and can't look for examples.


You, uh, probably want to avoid posting RL politics stuff.

Any post suggesting that the OP is in any way misguided for objecting to "she" being so prevalent is "posting RL politics stuff" as much as what I wrote. It's just posting politics on the pro-SJW side.

You're right; we should avoid it. I will happily drop it if others stop advocating their side of it.

Or if the moderators tell me to stop; this is a privately-owned and run forum, so freedom of speech isn't a right that exists here. If there is an orthodox opinion that is the only one allowed to be posted, that is their prerogative.


Edit: Sorry, that sounds a little more hostile than intended. I'm just exhausted by all the cries of, "Our opinion is the only valid one! Anything we disagree with is politics/hate/bigotry/notanicepersonism! Anything we say is just how things are and the only right view! Shut up!"

I will close by saying that I have not encountered a double-standard from this forum's moderators, the way I have from other forums. I do, however, respect any privately-run forum's right to have whatever kind of discussions or views its moderators want banned.

If you'd prefer, I can simply start reporting people rather than rebutting them publicly. I just think it's bad form, myself, to do so.

[Âmesang]

Perhaps classes should stop being referred to as "he" or "she" and just by their name."


A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by the cleric's god (generally by acting in ways oposed to the god's alignment or purposes) loses all spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and proficiency with simple weapons. The cleric cannot there after gain levels as a cleric of that god until the cleric atones.

Wee Jas, the goddess of death and magic, is lawful neutral. Wee Jas' titles are Witch Goddess, Ruby Sorceress, Stern Lady, and Death's Guardian. Wee Jas is a demanding goddess who expects obedience from her followers. Wee Jas' temples are few and far between, but Wee Jas counts many powerful sorcerers and wizards (especially necromancers) among her worshipers. The domains Wee Jas is associated with are Death, Law and Magic. Wee Jas' favored weapon is the dagger.

…it's like D&D if it were written by Bob Dole! :smalltongue:

[Blackhawk748]

I generally use They, or "the *insert class name*" when describing them acquiring new abilities. Mostly because its gender neutral.

[Aldrakan]

If I recall correctly the first Player's Handbook I owned (AD&D I think) had a little section explaining that they used "he" everywhere because widespread use had "neutered" the male pronoun, and it was not intended to indicate that players had to be male. Which is probably a revision of just using "he" as the default everywhere because obviously it is.
Overall I prefer switching by iconic gender, although I defend using "they" when that's not present - until English adopts a gender-neutral singular pronoun for general use we need a convenient way to express that.

[Abithrios]

... although I defend using "they" when that's not present - until English adopts a gender-neutral singular pronoun for general use we need a convenient way to express that.

"They" is the gender-neutral singular pronoun that English adopted centuries ago.

[Âmesang]

I could have sworn that English had had another set that sort of faded out during the transition from Old English to Middle after the Norman Conquest.

[johnbragg]

"They" is the gender-neutral singular pronoun that English adopted centuries ago.

I don't think centuries is at all accurate. Decades is more likely, as feminism became a cultural force and people started to challenge masculine pronouns as the default. Using the existing neuter plural pronoun was an attempt to patch that bug in the language.

[Aldrakan]

"They" is the gender-neutral singular pronoun that English adopted centuries ago.

Okay let me rephrase that:

Until modern pedants stop claiming it's wrong and "correcting" it.

[Jormengand]

I don't think centuries is at all accurate. Decades is more likely, as feminism became a cultural force and people started to challenge masculine pronouns as the default. Using the existing neuter plural pronoun was an attempt to patch that bug in the language.

Yeah, the first recorded usage was a few decades ago... like sixty-two of them. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Older_usage_by_respected_authors)

[johnbragg]

Yeah, the first recorded usage was a few decades ago... like sixty-two of them. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Older_usage_by_respected_authors)

Ahh.
Thanks. So default-male is the innovation, socially engineering language based on ideological priorities.

Although I did find out in my googling that "they" was originally masculine plural, which implies that there was a feminine plural that English wiped out.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=they

[bekeleven]

You can also use you/yours, which is totally gender neutral and I swear is fairly widespread, though I'm AFB right now and can't look for examples.
It depends on the spot. Class descriptions are always third-person, and feat descriptions are second-person, for instance.

[Honest Tiefling]

I like it best when the class Iconic is female, but the prestige Iconic is a male or vice versa. Gender changes are an unforseen drawback or benefit of prestige classes, depending on your point of view.

I just use 'They'. It's common enough that it makes sense in my head and it tends to be remembered as that anyway.

[AmberVael]

Because its EVERYWHERE. It's hard to find "he/his".

I found this to be a surprising assertion, so I did some looking around for myself. I went over about 40 classes, trying not to repeat classes from the same author, and doing my best to pull content from a variety of communities as well. Half of what I found used male pronouns. A quarter used female pronouns, and another quarter was unspecific (class name, you/they, etc). This is admittedly a small sample size.

So... I guess my contribution is that I don't see the evidence to back this up. Are you looking at a lot of material from one author or on one particular site, perhaps? Because I mean, if you're looking at Tome of Radiance or something - sure. You're going to find a lot of female pronouns in a work about magical girls. :smalltongue:


For my own part I haven't done a ton that requires pronoun use, but in my most recent work I did my best to split pronoun use down the middle.

[Xervous]

Gender changes are an unforseen drawback or benefit of prestige classes, depending on your point of view.

This is just so brilliant out of context I had to highlight it... thank you.