Help me understand the tier oneness of Cleric/Oracle

[Gallowglass]

Hi All, I've been a player for a long time, but I've never played priest classes very much, so consider me a newbie and help me with my newbie question.

I hear about clerics and oracles being tier one or high tier two because they are 9 level casters, but I don't really get it. Maybe if I was playing 20th level more often I'd get it, but I look through the spell lists for 0th to 4th or 5th level spells and I'm sorely underwhelmed. I don't see the multifunctionality I see with arcane casters. I don't see strong battlefield control at low levels, I don't see much for SoL or SoD spells targetting different saves. I don't see damage potential (even though I get that blasting is a waste of effort even for an arcane caster)

So what I'd love is, if someone who has mad priest-love, could help me by painting a picture. Show me was spells I should be preparing (for cleric) or having (for Oracle) for levels 1 through 10 of each class. Something like

cleric
level
1 these four 0 level spells, these 2 first level
2 these four 0 level spells, these 3 first level
3 these four 0 level spells, these 3 first, these 2 second....

and so on. I know this isn't accounting for versatility of knowing what you are doing on a given day (a spell build for dungeon crashing is different than a spell build for meeting the king and queen at high court is different than a spell build for crossing a barren desert land, so if someone has an idea of "here is your base build for a day of exploration, here is your base build for diplomancy, here is your base build for travel" that would be fantastic and appreciated.

I'm a very visual person and I've tried to plot this out myself and I always come out very underwhelmed compared to doing the same for wizard, sorcerer, druid or bard. I just don't see the flexibility. Everything seems very underpowered. They seem to be okay at buffing (but not as good as a bard) and really bad at damage and area control. Is there some other role that I am not seeing (discounting healer as the obvious choice)

Appreciate any help I can get.

[Amphetryon]

and so on. I know this isn't accounting for versatility of knowing what you are doing on a given day (a spell build for dungeon crashing is different than a spell build for meeting the king and queen at high court is different than a spell build for crossing a barren desert land, so if someone has an idea of "here is your base build for a day of exploration, here is your base build for diplomancy, here is your base build for travel" that would be fantastic and appreciated.

I'm a very visual person and I've tried to plot this out myself and I always come out very underwhelmed compared to doing the same for wizard, sorcerer, druid or bard. I just don't see the flexibility. Everything seems very underpowered. They seem to be okay at buffing (but not as good as a bard) and really bad at damage and area control. Is there some other role that I am not seeing (discounting healer as the obvious choice)

Appreciate any help I can get.

The part I underlined is the key to the power of the Cleric/Oracle. If a low-level Cleric knows she's going to be in a dungeon crawl, she can prep a simple load-out of Bless + Doom + Summon Monster I, and help every member of the party twice over, while providing a flank buddy for the Rogue (or herself) or a disposable trapfinder, plus she'll still be a capable combatant (since the BAB discrepancy is at its lowest at this point) and have her Channel ability + healing. . . and her entire load-out can change tomorrow. A Bard could come in with a similar load-out, but in situations where those spells aren't expected to be the best option, he's stuck. The Cleric, knowing what's ahead is a diplomatic mission, can swap the entire spell load-out listed for Comprehend Languages + Sanctuary + Tap Inner Beauty, or make similar whole-cloth swaps for travel days on the road or through a bustling port city.

[(Un)Inspired]

When I'm trying to evaluate the power of a class I always use the 3 examples that JaronK gave for problems that a PC might face


Situation 1: A Black Dragon has been plaguing an area, and he lives in a trap filled cave. Deal with him.

Situation 2: You have been tasked by a nearby country with making contact with the leader of the underground slave resistance of an evil tyranical city state, and get him to trust you.

Situation 3: A huge army of Orcs is approaching the city, and should be here in a week or so. Help the city prepare for war.

For a class to be tier 1 (or a well built tier 2) it should be able to handily solve each of these three situations completely solo.

Situation 1: A cleric can use there incredible array (Augury, Commune, Scrying) to not only find the dragons lair but also to find all its traps. Or it can mash Divine Insight/Bestow Insight/Guidence of the Avatar to completely destroy any search/perception checks required to find any traps (and disable device checks to thwart them). Or it can summon monsters using the SM line of spells to set off any and all traps (or it can use undead it has created or any planar allies from the planar ally spells). It can also blast any magical traps with Dispel Magic. The Cleric/Oracle can even use Stone Shape to create their own path through the dungeon if they don't feel like going through the trap-laden corridors at all.

Destroying the Dragon is just as easy for the Cleric/Oracle as cutting through its lair. They have access to resist energy so they shouldn't worry about the dragon's breath weapon. As I previously pointed out Cleric's Minionmancy Game is on point. You could just drown the dragon in a sea of undead/summoned monsters/planar allies. If hand to hand fighting is your thing, Clerics and Oracles have access to Airwalk to they can engage it on land or in the sky. For actual stabbing and stuff Cleric buffs are incredible. Divine Favor, Divine Might, Righteous Might, Eagle Soul, Holy Sword, Greater Magic Weapon; these are lions that come together to make your cleric voltron. Hell, be lawful good, cast Bestow Grace of the Champion and get a huge paladin damage buff as well. You know what, Summon a Lilend and give yourself a bard's Inspire Courage while you're at it. That Dragon is gonna go down like a chump. The Cleric/Oracles damage is gonna make the Barbarians Greatsword shrink in envy.

Situation 2: We talked about the incredible divinations that a Cleric has access to right? Scrying+Commune means no resistance group is hidden from you. Then Divine insight/bestow insight/guidance of the avatar diplomacy blast the leader of the resistance into thinking you're great! Or just summon a bard to do your diplomacy blasting for you.

Situation 3: The Cleric Oracle can create impenetrable barricades of the city using Stone Shape and Wall of Stone. Then it can build its own army to fight the orcs. Cast Animate Dead on every dead body you come across and march your army of the dead at the Orcs and see how long they last (every dead orc is a new zombie for your army!) Do you know how many times you can cast Animate Dead in one week? Or Bring in Some Planar Allies. If your army can't take down the Orc armies commanders then Buff up with the same spells you used to smoosh that dragon and let them have it. After all, with your divinations, you know where they're hidding.




Any problem that an adventuring party can encounter can be solved by a Cleric. I just solved these vastly different problems without even looking at Domains or Oracle Mysteries. You're welcome to add all manner of Teleporting, Stopping Time and powerful illusions to the list of things a cleric can tackle when you figure either one into the equation.

[Red Fel]

As Amphetryon says.

The defining feature of a Tier 1 class is that it can perform any role, given preparation, frequently better than the class designed for that role. Clerics have two features that put them in that realm:
They are full casters. That is, they have access to 9th-level spells. Even in PF, where some of the worst offenses of 3.5 were curbed, these are still game-breaking powers.
They are versatile casters. As Amphetryon says, because a Cleric can pray for new spells each day, he can change his loadout to fill completely different roles each time.
The Tier 1 Wizard is often contrasted with the Tier 2 Sorcerer for this reason. The Wizard can put any spell he needs into his spellbook, and switch things up from one day to the next; by contrast, the Sorcerer is limited to his selections. Admittedly, careful selection can prepare you for almost any situation, but the Tier system also measures adaptability, and the Sorcerer has little. The Cleric is the Wizard's parallel in this sense - from one day to the next, he can prepare for any situation.

[Gallowglass]

Thank you for the response.

Perhaps its a failure of my imagination. I have read all the arguements you just gave before, but I find them uncompelling in actual use in an actual game with an actual GM.

Situation 1:
You mention using augury, commune and scrying to find the dragons lair and find its traps, but I don't see how that works that well. Scrying and Commune don't come online until level 9 which, as my initial request was specific to low level play, levels 1 to 10, is very late. I've never seen any player get useful information out of DM with augury, especially not in a case like this example. You are going through a complex cave lair and you get to ask for aid in one area "If I go down this path, what will come of us?". So you have a secret 73-80% chance of getting a result other than Nothing and it is tied to the GMs capriciousness "Well the dragon might bbq you so that would be woe, but if you beat it you get its gold so that would be weal...." Even if I craft a very specific question, its still only one question. Doesn't seem to me to measure up. Even at 9th level, when the other two spells come online, scrying gives both a save (dragons have good saves) and spell resistance (dragon's have good spell resistance) and requires some meaningful knowledge of the dragon or the save is even easier. I was thinking a failed save meant the dragon knew you were scrying, but I don't see it in the srd, so I must be thinking of something else. Commune is somewhat better, by the time you can cast it you get 9 yes or no questions from your diety, so that's pretty useful.

I can't find Divine insight or Guidance of the Avatar on the d20pfsrd site. As for bestow insight, by the level it comes online (5th) it lets me give +3 bonus to someone on one skill that I have ranks in. And once in the next 10 rounds they can roll twice and take the better. with my 2+int mod skill ranks and class skill list that's probably going to be in a knowledge, sense motive or spellcraft rolls (or perception if I but ranks in it despite it not being on my list. At 5th level, the person probably already has a +8-+12 in the skill already (between +3 for class skill, +ranks, + attribute) so I'm really giving them what feels to me like a small boost.

Summoning are always useful in combat, but lasting 1 round per level, I don't find in practice they work for scouting. realistically, even at 10th level, they are lasting 1 minute. That's not very far walking down a corridor through a twisted cave. Dispel Magic I agree is great, but that's a spell that both clerics and wizards get. Stoneshape affects one small (15 cubic foot) section of stone, its not really goign to let you bypass corridors and corridors as you are saying. But, again, i do find it useful. Most elemental spells I get.

I guess I'm just poking holes to try and make my point which is, I get the "THEORY" about it being powerful and I get that the tier system is basically looking at full 20 level builds. So I accept that a 9 level caster with high level spells is powerful. My question is how do I effectively play at low and medium levels, that's why I was looking for a list of useful spells.

[Abithrios]

When I'm trying to evaluate the power of a class I always use the 3 examples that JaronK gave for problems that a PC might face



For a class to be tier 1 (or a well built tier 2) it should be able to handily solve each of these three situations completely solo.

Situation 1: A cleric can use there incredible array (Augury, Commune, Scrying) to not only find the dragons lair but also to find all its traps. Or it can mash Divine Insight/Bestow Insight/Guidence of the Avatar to completely destroy any search/perception checks required to find any traps (and disable device checks to thwart them). Or it can summon monsters using the SM line of spells to set off any and all traps (or it can use undead it has created or any planar allies from the planar ally spells). It can also blast any magical traps with Dispel Magic. The Cleric/Oracle can even use Stone Shape to create their own path through the dungeon if they don't feel like going through the trap-laden corridors at all.

Destroying the Dragon is just as easy for the Cleric/Oracle as cutting through its lair. They have access to resist energy so they shouldn't worry about the dragon's breath weapon. As I previously pointed out Cleric's Minionmancy Game is on point. You could just drown the dragon in a sea of undead/summoned monsters/planar allies. If hand to hand fighting is your thing, Clerics and Oracles have access to Airwalk to they can engage it on land or in the sky. For actual stabbing and stuff Cleric buffs are incredible. Divine Favor, Divine Might, Righteous Might, Eagle Soul, Holy Sword, Greater Magic Weapon; these are lions that come together to make your cleric voltron. Hell, be lawful good, cast Bestow Grace of the Champion and get a huge paladin damage buff as well. You know what, Summon a Lilend and give yourself a bard's Inspire Courage while you're at it. That Dragon is gonna go down like a chump. The Cleric/Oracles damage is gonna make the Barbarians Greatsword shrink in envy.

Situation 2: We talked about the incredible divinations that a Cleric has access to right? Scrying+Commune means no resistance group is hidden from you. Then Divine insight/bestow insight/guidance of the avatar diplomacy blast the leader of the resistance into thinking you're great! Or just summon a bard to do your diplomacy blasting for you.

Situation 3: The Cleric Oracle can create impenetrable barricades of the city using Stone Shape and Wall of Stone. Then it can build its own army to fight the orcs. Cast Animate Dead on every dead body you come across and march your army of the dead at the Orcs and see how long they last (every dead orc is a new zombie for your army!) Do you know how many times you can cast Animate Dead in one week? Or Bring in Some Planar Allies. If your army can't take down the Orc armies commanders then Buff up with the same spells you used to smoosh that dragon and let them have it. After all, with your divinations, you know where they're hidding.




Any problem that an adventuring party can encounter can be solved by a Cleric. I just solved these vastly different problems without even looking at Domains or Oracle Mysteries. You're welcome to add all manner of Teleporting, Stopping Time and powerful illusions to the list of things a cleric can tackle when you figure either one into the equation.

What are the level, alignment, and game system of the cleric in your example?

I looked up a number of the spells you mentioned. A lot of them were nowhere to be found on d20pfsrd.com . This leads me to believe that they are 3.5 only.

Many of the remaining spells are high level. Bestow grace of the champion is a seventh level spell that only works on lawful good targets.

Many of your combat buffs only last a minute or two. Combat usually doesn't last that long, but it means you have to stand outside the door of the dragon's bedroom and pray it's soundproof while you buff and then hope the dragon doesn't realize that humans aren't naturally large and find a way to stall for a minute. If the door isn't soundproof, the dragon will just start chewing your face off.

In 3.5, you can just persist all your favorite buffs, but that doesn't work in pathfinder. You can extend your spells, but unless you find the one GM that doesn't ban sacred geometry, you have to pay for it. The result is that there are some impracticalities in pathfinder.

As far as minionmancy, are your minions as resistant to breath weapons as you are? Did you have to pay to get them?

Also, OP mentioned level 4-5 spells. As I pointed out, some of the spells are seventh level. That is a bit beyond the scope of the discussion.

You made a good argument for why high level 3.5 clerics are tier one. I think op is more looking for such an argument for low to mid level pathfinder clerics. I suspect that such arguments are a lot weaker if they are based only on Paizo content.

More broadly, I have found that most discussions of tiers in pathfinder rely too heavily on comparisons to 3.5

[Amphetryon]

Thank you for the response.

Perhaps its a failure of my imagination. I have read all the arguements you just gave before, but I find them uncompelling in actual use in an actual game with an actual GM.

Situation 1:
You mention using augury, commune and scrying to find the dragons lair and find its traps, but I don't see how that works that well. Scrying and Commune don't come online until level 9 which, as my initial request was specific to low level play, levels 1 to 10, is very late. I've never seen any player get useful information out of DM with augury, especially not in a case like this example. You are going through a complex cave lair and you get to ask for aid in one area "If I go down this path, what will come of us?". So you have a secret 73-80% chance of getting a result other than Nothing and it is tied to the GMs capriciousness "Well the dragon might bbq you so that would be woe, but if you beat it you get its gold so that would be weal...." Even if I craft a very specific question, its still only one question. Doesn't seem to me to measure up. Even at 9th level, when the other two spells come online, scrying gives both a save (dragons have good saves) and spell resistance (dragon's have good spell resistance) and requires some meaningful knowledge of the dragon or the save is even easier. I was thinking a failed save meant the dragon knew you were scrying, but I don't see it in the srd, so I must be thinking of something else. Commune is somewhat better, by the time you can cast it you get 9 yes or no questions from your diety, so that's pretty useful.

I can't find Divine insight or Guidance of the Avatar on the d20pfsrd site. As for bestow insight, by the level it comes online (5th) it lets me give +3 bonus to someone on one skill that I have ranks in. And once in the next 10 rounds they can roll twice and take the better. with my 2+int mod skill ranks and class skill list that's probably going to be in a knowledge, sense motive or spellcraft rolls (or perception if I but ranks in it despite it not being on my list. At 5th level, the person probably already has a +8-+12 in the skill already (between +3 for class skill, +ranks, + attribute) so I'm really giving them what feels to me like a small boost.

Summoning are always useful in combat, but lasting 1 round per level, I don't find in practice they work for scouting. realistically, even at 10th level, they are lasting 1 minute. That's not very far walking down a corridor through a twisted cave. Dispel Magic I agree is great, but that's a spell that both clerics and wizards get. Stoneshape affects one small (15 cubic foot) section of stone, its not really goign to let you bypass corridors and corridors as you are saying. But, again, i do find it useful. Most elemental spells I get.

I guess I'm just poking holes to try and make my point which is, I get the "THEORY" about it being powerful and I get that the tier system is basically looking at full 20 level builds. So I accept that a 9 level caster with high level spells is powerful. My question is how do I effectively play at low and medium levels, that's why I was looking for a list of useful spells.
Actually, the Tier System is generally considered most relevant from levels 5 - 13, where Class abilities have by and large come online and the system isn't usually thought to be struggling under its own weight.

That said, Red Fel and I did reference 1st level, and I made sure to pull Spell suggestions from the d20pfsrd.

[(Un)Inspired]

Thank you for the response.

Perhaps its a failure of my imagination. I have read all the arguements you just gave before, but I find them uncompelling in actual use in an actual game with an actual GM.

Situation 1:
You mention using augury, commune and scrying to find the dragons lair and find its traps, but I don't see how that works that well. Scrying and Commune don't come online until level 9 which, as my initial request was specific to low level play, levels 1 to 10, is very late. I've never seen any player get useful information out of DM with augury, especially not in a case like this example. You are going through a complex cave lair and you get to ask for aid in one area "If I go down this path, what will come of us?". So you have a secret 73-80% chance of getting a result other than Nothing and it is tied to the GMs capriciousness "Well the dragon might bbq you so that would be woe, but if you beat it you get its gold so that would be weal...." Even if I craft a very specific question, its still only one question. Doesn't seem to me to measure up. Even at 9th level, when the other two spells come online, scrying gives both a save (dragons have good saves) and spell resistance (dragon's have good spell resistance) and requires some meaningful knowledge of the dragon or the save is even easier. I was thinking a failed save meant the dragon knew you were scrying, but I don't see it in the srd, so I must be thinking of something else. Commune is somewhat better, by the time you can cast it you get 9 yes or no questions from your diety, so that's pretty useful.

I can't find Divine insight or Guidance of the Avatar on the d20pfsrd site. As for bestow insight, by the level it comes online (5th) it lets me give +3 bonus to someone on one skill that I have ranks in. And once in the next 10 rounds they can roll twice and take the better. with my 2+int mod skill ranks and class skill list that's probably going to be in a knowledge, sense motive or spellcraft rolls (or perception if I but ranks in it despite it not being on my list. At 5th level, the person probably already has a +8-+12 in the skill already (between +3 for class skill, +ranks, + attribute) so I'm really giving them what feels to me like a small boost.

Summoning are always useful in combat, but lasting 1 round per level, I don't find in practice they work for scouting. realistically, even at 10th level, they are lasting 1 minute. That's not very far walking down a corridor through a twisted cave. Dispel Magic I agree is great, but that's a spell that both clerics and wizards get. Stoneshape affects one small (15 cubic foot) section of stone, its not really goign to let you bypass corridors and corridors as you are saying. But, again, i do find it useful. Most elemental spells I get.

I guess I'm just poking holes to try and make my point which is, I get the "THEORY" about it being powerful and I get that the tier system is basically looking at full 20 level builds. So I accept that a 9 level caster with high level spells is powerful. My question is how do I effectively play at low and medium levels, that's why I was looking for a list of useful spells.

If a DM is going to houserule that your divination spells don't give you any useful information then that's a problem with your table and not with the strength of the Cleric spell list. The fact that scrying offers a save and spell resistance doesn't actually matter. Spend a few days before you attack the dragon preparing nothing but scrying and just mash it. Dragons still fail saves on a one. Blast him with Scrying till he fails and watch him. Do it again angain and again. Learn everything you can. The Dragon will give you all his naughty little secrets.

Animate Skeletons and send them into the dragons lair before you ever go in and Scry on them. They've got garbage will saves. How them map out the lair before you ever set foot in it. Mash Augury for every step the skeleton takes and you can trial and error you way through every trap.

Dispel Magic is great. Yes its a Wizard Spell. Wizards are great. Its just as much a cleric spell as it is a Wizard spell. When a wizard and a cleric cast the same spell the cleric wins because they're functioning exactly the same only the cleric has more Hp and better saves.

15 cubic feet is a tremendous amout of stone. Like a really, really, really huge amount of stone. Remember its not 15 square feet. Anytime there's a doorway in a dungeon that you are worried is trapped you can just ignore and make your own.

1 round/level is totally long enough for a level 1 summoned monster dog to walk into a trap to set it off for you. Plus, Extend spell is cheap (spell level changing-wise) and fantastic. As are lesser extend rods.

Clerics are totally better at high levels but so are every single class. Soloing that Dragons Den becomes more and more simple the higher level you are. It's still a struggle bus solo adventure for Wizards at low levels.

Even at low levels, Augury, Extended summons, Stone Shape, and Divine Might are still at your fingertips.

What are the level, alignment, and game system of the cleric in your example?

I looked up a number of the spells you mentioned. A lot of them were nowhere to be found on d20pfsrd.com . This leads me to believe that they are 3.5 only.

Many of the remaining spells are high level. Bestow grace of the champion is a seventh level spell that only works on lawful good targets.

Many of your combat buffs only last a minute or two. Combat usually doesn't last that long, but it means you have to stand outside the door of the dragon's bedroom and pray it's soundproof while you buff and then hope the dragon doesn't realize that humans aren't naturally large and find a way to stall for a minute. If the door isn't soundproof, the dragon will just start chewing your face off.

In 3.5, you can just persist all your favorite buffs, but that doesn't work in pathfinder. You can extend your spells, but unless you find the one GM that doesn't ban sacred geometry, you have to pay for it. The result is that there are some impracticalities in pathfinder.

As far as minionmancy, are your minions as resistant to breath weapons as you are? Did you have to pay to get them?

Also, OP mentioned level 4-5 spells. As I pointed out, some of the spells are seventh level. That is a bit beyond the scope of the discussion.

You made a good argument for why high level 3.5 clerics are tier one. I think op is more looking for such an argument for low to mid level pathfinder clerics. I suspect that such arguments are a lot weaker if they are based only on Paizo content.

More broadly, I have found that most discussions of tiers in pathfinder rely too heavily on comparisons to 3.5

I did sneak a few 3.5 spells in there. It's the system I learned first and sometimes a don;t both to separate the two.

Mea Culpa

I do agree that Clerics are significantly worse in pathfinder than in 3.5 but thats true for every class. We are all weaker after our transition (probably for the best).

Bestow Insight doesn't make the Cleric the King of skill town (mayor?) that Guidence of the Avatar did but there are other pieces that can fill in. There are other spells tht can buff up certain skills that stack with Bestow Insight such as Enhanceed Diplomacy or SMVI. Speaking of the Summon Monster line of spells, you can always summon an outsider with rad skill ranks to make your checks for you.

You minions are totally able to handle the Dragon's Breath weapon too because resist energy and Protection from energy (and their mass and communal versions) are totally on the cleric spell list. They both last a long time also so don't worry about have to buff up in combat.

Frankly I don't think buffing before combat is actually a problem. The cleric has used divinations to map out everything thats going to happen in their future. They should know when any combats are upcoming and be able to buff up before jumping into any nonsense.

[ericgrau]

I think the tiers are base more on versatility than power. Clerics get a huge spell selection, but yeah their spells are weaker than arcane spells of the same level. They can fight too, but not as well without wasting precious rounds buffing. And the loss of rounds can be a huge debuff. So they operate more like gishes. Not that much different from eldritch knight really. I mean losing a spell level vs. switching from arcane to divine isn't that much different.

So yeah it's going to come down to the multitude of options they get, but so does the eldritch knight. Should eldritch knight be T1 in spite of losing 2 caster levels which cost it a lot? I dunno, maybe.

[Spore]

In my humble opinion, T1 casters only pull ahead from 7th to 11th level. That's Spell level 4 to 6 respectively. That is also why 6th level in e6 is considered a very good cutoff point in order to keep casters from becoming overwhelming. Earlier characters still get a glimpse of upcoming glory with spells like:

- Endure Elements: What? Your 3rd level ranger has +4 on environmental saves? See my 1st level level cleric has to make no saves at all AND can provide this to the squishiest allies.
- Comprehend Languages: You cannot read this incredibly important mural on how to disable the traps in an ancient tongue without spending hours on it, 1st level rogue? Ha, let me read it out for you.
- Protection from Evil: You call yourself Paladin and you are not even immune from charms until 8th level? And never immune to mind control? Lol, enjoy my first level spell. With the added feature that evil outsiders cannot touch you unless they save.

Other than that, spell levels 1-3 are great at healing HP and disabilities.

[Ganorenas]

It usually comes down to how long they have to prepare, at least in the games I've been running.

For Npc clerics it isn't as big a deal, all they do is check on their well being or ask about goal X. For players it gets tough, since anything they learn has to be remembered by the Dm or might leak a plan that they didn't want revealed. I have forgotten about some details that were acted or discovered through Augury, but it hasn't been a huge issue yet.

Anyway, to pluck out some spells, I'm currently playing a cleric in a pathfinder game ran by my brother every few weeks, so my spell list is small but acceptable for what we have been doing.

Currently 5th level
0 (4) not to important.
1 (3+1) Bless, Bless, Endure Elements, Doom
2 (2+1) Resist Energy, Lesser Restoration, Delay Poison
3 (1+1) Summon Monster III, Water Breathing

Domains: Earth and Animal
I usually prep the Animal domain spells, haven't had to use them yet.

I have 4 wands of Infernal healing and 1 wand of Cure Light Wounds. I sub spells for wand charges when I can. Used up 1 wand of Infernal healing after the 6th session (Bearded Devil kept smacking us, almost lost a party member to my poor rolls using my spell slots before I lucked out with the wand).

The party consists of:
Paladin, Fighter, Inquisitor, Sorcerer, Me

The above spell list has covered the issues we've come to thus far, but it doesn't make me particularly over powered? Just gives me more options on my sheet when an issue pops up.

But your title was well answered by the other posters, you were given examples of what options a Cleric has when doing tasks 1, 2, and 3. Fit the other classes into those tests and see what hoops they need to jump to have satisfying answers?

[Florian]

I'm not to keen on the whole "in a vacuum"-thinking, meaning the whole world stands still while the caster does his stuff, but in essence in comes down to the ability to prepare from the whole and ever expanding spell list availlable _and_ being able to leave slots open to fill as needed during the day. Couple that with always having healing/damage at hand, no matter what spells are prepared and a useful staff, as well a picking domains to fit your role, the. tier1 versality should explain itself.

[Feint's End]

A simpler argument than giving specific arguments is to exclude clerics from the other tiers.

Given some Form of preparation and/or expectancy clerics can be useful, even mildly in every given situation. Which would put them firmly into t3 territory. However they also have world shattering power in some areas which lifts them out of t3 and straight to t1 (the difference in t2 and t1 is really only versatility).
Basically always almost on par with specialised classes and often surpassing them.

A mistake many people make is seeing tiers as grades which progress lineary. This however isn't true. T1 and t2 are on a whole other level than the ones below. As in not even on the same scale.
Again T3 and t4 are on a whole other level than t5 (although the distance between t5 and t4 isn't that big).

[ericgrau]

In my humble opinion, T1 casters only pull ahead from 7th to 11th level. That's Spell level 4 to 6 respectively. That is also why 6th level in e6 is considered a very good cutoff point in order to keep casters from becoming overwhelming. Earlier characters still get a glimpse of upcoming glory with spells like:

- Endure Elements: What? Your 3rd level ranger has +4 on environmental saves? See my 1st level level cleric has to make no saves at all AND can provide this to the squishiest allies.
- Comprehend Languages: You cannot read this incredibly important mural on how to disable the traps in an ancient tongue without spending hours on it, 1st level rogue? Ha, let me read it out for you.
- Protection from Evil: You call yourself Paladin and you are not even immune from charms until 8th level? And never immune to mind control? Lol, enjoy my first level spell. With the added feature that evil outsiders cannot touch you unless they save.

Other than that, spell levels 1-3 are great at healing HP and disabilities.
Those are some of the worst 1st level spells because they're too narrow. I consider it red herring immunity; the ability to survive even 1 million damage and all status effects caused by a red herring. As in amazing 0.1% of the time, but so what? They make great scrolls for the 0-1 times you'll use them in the entire campaign, but that's about it. I'd never prepare them.

Lots of 3rd level spells are nice; not sure if casters are amazing yet but at least the pain is over. 2nd level has web which is pretty amazing. Nerveskitter is amazing, though as a level 3 caster you are probably better off tagging an ally. Levitate, flaming sphere, glitterdust and ray of enfeeblement are ok (and flaming sphere is lousy at higher level). Sleep and color spray are nice for levels 1-3. Burning hands is an ok backup for hosing low level CR 1/4 to CR 1/2 groups. Shocking grasp is likewise ok for 1 shotting certain low level foes. But these last 4 except sleep put the squishy caster in the danger zone, and sleep has a delay. So that limits them. Charm person and silent image are nice with a great deal of work. That's about all I could find for levels 1-2 besides buffs, utility and so forth which are narrow, or better at higher level, or etc.

Oh and I accidentally forgot cleric spells because their spells are so much worse ha .

What was the topic again?

[Abithrios]

What was the topic again?

Low to mid level pathfinder clerics and oracles.

[ericgrau]

Oh I don't think they get much until prayer and blessing of fervor. And yeah in PF I don't see that as all that as super powerful at all. Channel energy healing is kind of nice, especially when combined with selective channeling and shield other. A lot of band-aid spells belong on scrolls because of their limited use. At low level I'd rather have a party of barbarians and some fix-it potions. They potions kind of expensive and make the barbarians take a hit on other gear, but they are still more effective overall. Maybe have someone take 1 level of ranger for wands of cure light wounds to save money. Once you get into mid or mid-high level clerics make better mass buffers & fixers and ok but not great combatants. Dunno about high level in PF. Probably great spells by that point like 3.5. I mean if wizards "need" 3rd and 4th level spells, then I think clerics "need" 5th and 6th level spells.

[stanprollyright]

In my mind, Clerics are the generally weakest of the T1 classes, though they have a higher TO ceiling than Druids (Miracle, Planar Binding, domains that grant Time Stop and Shapechange, etc.). I'm not sure about Cleric vs. Druid in PF with the wild shape nerf, as I haven't played much high-level PF. Don't know much about Oracles, though I assume they're more or less the same. Here's my understanding of what makes Clerics T1 material at various level ranges:

Low level (1-5) - Solid combat ability, good saves and armor/shield proficiency, simple weapons + deity's favored weapon, with buffs and heals to make up the difference between you and the Fighter. Several good utility effects, like Comprehend Languages and Zone of Truth. Some decent BFC with Obscuring Mist and Silence. You're basically a beatstick with extra options.

Mid level (6-12) - Lots of great buffs to make the Fighter green with envy, Animate Dead and Summon Monster for minionmancy, divinations as good as any Wizard, more utility effects that you can prepare and convert into heals, a few nasty debuffs. Not as much versatility as a Druid or the raw power of an arcane caster, but close on both accounts. BFC is lacking without the right domains.

High levels (13+) - Game-breaking shenanigans (usually involving Miracle, Planar Binding, Create Demiplane, and the like), domains that give you some of the Wizard's best spells, powerful summoned minions, armies of undead, divination, mass buffs, save-or-sucks, debuffs. Heals and resurrection. Still not much BFC, but with everything else you bring to the table it hardly matters anymore.

All levels - Solid in combat even without buffs, with them they can be nigh-unstoppable. Domains allow a Cleric to shore up their weaknesses or augment their strengths with spells that aren't on their list. Channel energy is nice as an extra pool of healing or occasional AoE damage. They're the best necromancers in the game. Can prepare utility spells on a regular basis and convert them into cures or inflicts as needed.

[Florian]

What I have seen of mid to high level PF clerics so far, the old thinking to "outfight the fighter" is a bit of obsolete now, as the PF cleric is more geared to approach direct combat very differently to 3,5.

"Bad Touch Cleric" type of builds actively use their Channel abilities in combat alongside every debut available to devastate their targets, not the old route to simply buff BAB and damage.
In this mode, the are good, but no match for a dedicated Warpriest.

[Quertus]

To answer that question, look at a cleric, not just solo, but in a party.

IME, clerics can fill almost any role. They can fight, they can tank, they can summon, they can heal, or they can skill monkey. Or.

Whatever role you need in the party, they can fill it reasonably well.