Little Leagues Deathmatches

[Bobby Baratheon]

Come with me, if you will, on a journey to a far away place. A magical arena where the glorious Tier 1/2 master race sits in solemn assembly, awaiting the day's matches and consulting one with another on such fell topics as Celerity and the merits of the indubitable Incantatrix. Meanwhile, throngs (dare I say hordes?) of their Tier 3/4 lackeys fill the stands, celebrating as only the lower sorts can.

Something like this, if you will.
http://images.hngn.com/data/images/full/41828/fans-of-the-oakland-raiders.jpg?w=650

Sorry for the purple prose :smalltongue: I couldn't help myself. I'm sure we've all seen the infinite threads of X vs Y (usually Batman vs Anything Else Which Will Always Lose Because Batman is Batman, or BvAEWWALBBIB for short :smalltongue:). Those threads are cool for schmucks like me, in that they demonstrate insanely powergamed high level play. This thread is the opposite. I think it would be interesting to see how low level, low wealth and low tier builds can be made competitive (at least relative to each other). However, I've seen some of these threads developing into absurdly situational (and hyper-aggressive) thought experiments, so I'd like to impose some guidelines.

-Level 5 max
-Tier 5 or 6
-You may multiclass within Tiers 5 and 6, but not outside of them.
-No PRC's
-All sources are allowed
-Dragon Compendium is cool. Just, ya know, actually cite something specific.
-One template.
-LA+0 or LA+1 only (no buyout; this limit includes both templates and races. Example - you can have a +1 race, but not a +1 template on top of that, or vice versa)
-Level 5 WBL
-Max value of 2500 per magic item
-Cheese is okay, within those frameworks. That's kind of the point of this, after all. What manner of low level, low power and yet still deliciously cheesey build can you concoct in your laboratories?
-Assume elite array for abilities (sorry for the delay on that one!)

Post your build here.

In order to avoid the whole "X vs Y" thing, your arena combatant can be expected to be disemboweled by/face the following:
-Animals of the appropriate CR (animals with any template, examples include fiendish, revived fossil, celestal, zombie, etc)
-A horde of level one NPC warriors (let's say ten to twenty, shall we? For the most part they will be orcs, but exceptions are possible)
-Any other player's submission (at random)
-1% chance of facing Cthulu (variety is the spice of life!)
-Any sort of odd conditions the Tier One overlords might impose for their own amusement (no gravity, naval battles, everyone's blind, no weapons, using chariots, etc).

The gist of this is that your build should be reasonably versatile, and (hopefully) be able to do more than spam "I smash his face".

Now . . . let the First Triquarterly Little Leagues Deathmatches begin!!!!

NOTE: I will edit the guidelines as you fine folks demolish them.
EDIT: Changed the animals part to include templated animals. Got to give you guys a litle bit of a challenge, at least. Also specified that most NPC warriors fought will be orcs.

[ben-zayb]

I'm guessing savage progressions are out...aren't they? Is LA buyout okay? How about Necropolitan's level loss? Do we PM builds, or post them here? What level of cheese is allowed?

[Gandariel]

Aren't the fighters gonna fight each other?

Also, was that a HOMM reference? If so, cool! :D

[Bobby Baratheon]

Sorry for the unclear guidelines! I will edit them shortly.

[nintendoh]

Tar'get pra'tice
Human commoner
Str. 8
Dex. 18
Con.8
Int.8
Wis.8
Cha. 8

Feats 1st. Run
Human skill focus : escape artist.

Skills
Diplomacy
Escape artist

Skill trick
Plead for mercy

Items

Master work skill tools
Disguise kit

[Cerefel]

How much do we get for a point buy?

[ben-zayb]

All additional entries from me are edited-in/added into this post.


CE Unseelie-Fey Lesser-Tiefling Dragon-Shaman 5
Ability Scores: STR 11 (13-2), DEX 18 (14+4), CON 14 (15-2+1), INT 14 (12+2), WIS 10, CHA 8

Feats:

1st: Blend into Shadows, Darkstalker (Flaw:Noncombatant), Evasive Reflexes (Flaw:Murky-Eyed)
2nd: Skill Focus (Hide)
3rd: Martial Study


Hide modifier for Blend into Shadows: 20+DEX = 8(ranks) +DEX +2(racial) +3(Skill Focus) +5(competence, Cloak of Elvenkind) +2(circumstance, MW Tool)

Lesser Tiefling

Medium Humanoid, 30ft land speed
Ability Score: +2 DEX, +2 INT, -2 CHA
Racial Skll: +2 Bluff/Hide
Resistance 5 to Cold, Electricity, and Fire
Darkness 1/day


Unseelie Fey

Ability Score: -2 STR, +2 DEX, -2 CON, +2 CHA
Vision: Darkvision 60ft.
Speed: 60ft ave. flight, dragonlike wings
Damage Reduction: 5/Iron
Iron Vulnerability: +1d6
Season's Power (Summer): Magic Circle Against non-Animal/Fey/Magical-Beast


Dragon Shaman

Aura: Vigor (Fast Healing 2), Toughness (DR2/magic), Resistance (Acid 10), Senses (+2 Listen/Spot/Initiative)
Shamanic Invocation: Darkness
Breath Weapon: 2d6 Acid damage, 30ft-line
Draconic Resolve: Immunity to Paralysis, Sleep, and Dragons' Frightful Presence
Draconic Adaptation: Water Breathing
Skill Focus (Hide)



Basically, he has a crapton of spell-components (draw without action) targeted by his 50min at-will Darkness, and scatters them everywhere in the battlefield. This enables him to hide in every place imaginable, likely without giving his position away. The 20% Concealment from Darkness also complements her highly-defensive stats. Have him hold a reach weapon such that he can better 5ft-step away via Evasive Reflexes from the danger of someone trespassing his threat range.

NE Air Goblin Ghost (LA+1, Savage Progression) / Rokugan Ninja 3 / Hit-and-Run Fighter 1
Ability Scores: STR -, DEX 20 (15+4+1), CON -, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 13

Feats:

1st: Hidden Talent (Minor Creation, Psionic), Ghostly Grasp (Flaw: Non-Combatant), Flyby Attack (Flaw: Weak-Willed)
3rd: Maiming Strike
4th: Martial Study (Martial Spirit)


Equipment: Momonja has a crapton of specialized (sometimes, magical) ammunitions a la Hawkeye or Green Arrow, and will give a detailed breakdown once required.

Air Goblin

Small size, 30ft land speed
Ability Score: +4 DEX, -2 STR, -2 CON
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against creatures of the earth subtype, including extraplanar creatures from the Elemental Plane of Earth.
-2 penalty on all saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities with the earth subtype or used by creatures of the earth subtype, including extraplanar creatures from the Elemental Plane of Earth.
+4 racial bonus on Move Silently, +2 racial bonus on Ride


Ghost

Undead type; Incorporeal and Augmented Humanoid subtypes
30ft perfect flight
+2 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Search, and Spot
Ethereal (Ex), Manifestation (Su)


Rokugan Ninja

Sneak Attack +2d6
Full BAB, Good Will
Ninja Dodge +1 (as Dodge feat)
Uncanny Dodge


Hit-and-Run Fighter

Bonus Feat: Martial Study (Martial Spirit)
Full BAB, Good Fort
+2 Initiative
+DEX competence bonus on weapon damage rolls vs flat-footed enemies within 30ft


Hit and run tactics, using ranged sneak-attacks that inflict CHA damage and poison the enemies.

[Snowbluff]

Tier 5, huh? Hm...

[Bobby Baratheon]

I like Devlin a lot - not only does he have the hiding thing going for him, but he has flight and he can depend on his breath weapon to overcome DR's and whatnot. I like his mobility a lot too.

Target Practice is awesome. Laughed for quite some time at that one. :smallbiggrin:

[daremetoidareyo]

Assuming 32 point buy

Master Tochi, nudity enthusiast

str:12, Con: 12, Dex: 16, Int 8, Wis: 17 Cha: 9
Level 4 bonus goes to wis.

CG Human Ninja (CA) 1, Hidden talent (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) Soul knife 3, Hit and Run (DotU) Fighter 1
Feats
1: Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty(bhuman), Nymphs Kiss(bvop)
2:Defender of the homeland(bvop) (CoV), Hidden talent (astral construct)(bsk), weapon focus mindblade(bsk)
3: Bladeproof skin (UA)
4: Intuitive attack(bvop)
5: Martial study (Burning brand (ToB))(bfighter)

Racial/Class/VOP features
1: Ki power (+2 will), sudden strike 1d6, trapfinding, AC bonusbonus feat, +1 skill point per level, bonus exalted feat, +4 exalted bonus to AC, 28 skill points
2: Mind blade, Weapon Focus (mind blade), Hidden Talent (astral construct), bonus exalted feat
3: throw mindblade, endure elements, +5 exalted bonus to AC
4: psychic strike, bonus exalted feat, +1 enhancement to attack and damage
5: Bonus feat, +2 initiative, dex to damage against flat-footed folk, sustenance (no need for food/drink)

Skills:
1: Balance 2, sense motive 2, disable device 4, hide 2, move silently 2, spot 4, concentration 4, escape artist 4, sleight of hand 4
2: spot 5, concentration 5, tumble 3
3: spot 6, concentration 6, tumble 6
4: spot 7, concentration 7, tumble 7, balance 4
5: spot 8, concentration 8, tumble 8

Dr 3/bludgeoning, a flanking buddy, AC of 22, weapon is magic and can be replaced easily, immunity to fear if this competition is in his home country, which it is, of course. Wisdom modifies attack rolls with the heavy mace that he carries, can extend reach by 5 in a turn and do fire damage. Sudden strike and Psychic strike (with mind blade).

[Snowbluff]

Moira Healboat (Basically she has sorcerer casting even though she's a healer)
(Human or Elf)
Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 13

Feats:
1) Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest (MoI)
3) Fiery Burst (Complete Mage)
Human) Versatile Spellcaster
Flaws1) Sanctum Spell
Flaws2) Magical Training (FRCS, Sorcerer Casting)

Spells prepared:
0)
1)
2)
3) Celestial Aspect(BoED), -, -,

Spellbook (Magical Training)
0)
1) Hail of Stone
2) Scorching Ray

I'll finish later.

[Xervous]

One major issue I see here is contestants who are capable of fully denying their opponent the chance to engage except on terms the denier prefers.

This is still a rough sketch as I'm sure there are better options to be hunted down.

Mineral Warrior Ghostwise Halfling
Base
STR: 15 INT: 10
DEX: 12 WIS: 13
CON: 14 CHA: 8
After Mods, L4 bonus going to STR
STR: 16 INT: 8
DEX: 14 WIS: 11
CON: 18 CHA: 6

2 Decisive Strike, Invisible Fist, Passive Way Monk / 1 Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian / Fighter 1

Flaws: Shaky, Unreactive
1: Mindsight, Combat Reflexes(flaw), ????(flaw), Combat Expertise (Monk)
2: Improved Trip (Monk)
3: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Kusarai Gama)
4: ....?


Will get to magic item selection later...

So here we've got a living statue of a halfling that has...

10ft burrow speed
20ft mindsight
Immediate Action 1 round Invisibility every 3 rounds
Oil Coated Full Plate and a Tower shield bringing him to 27AC, frenzy brings it up to 29
DR 8/Adamantine
+6 (+8 whirling frenzy) to hit with his masterwork Kusarai Gama, secured within a locked gauntlet... should probably work on improving this
40.5 average HP if it's rolled.
+11 Fort, +4 Reflex, +3 Will... possible issues there
2d4+6 Decisive Strike with his K-G or unarmed strike, 2x 2d4+10 when in whirling frenzy.


Also can't remember if having DR/Adamantine permits this Halfling's unarmed strikes to bypass hardness.

-- If only we could do human heritage and Jotunbrud...

There are plenty of holes in this build I hope to fill in later, but for now I feel it's best to get the general concept up. The fighter and barbarian levels might be better served elsewhere if it can help deal with energy damage.

Possible thoughts: Boost tripping and sundering


ADDITIONALLY in response to...


In order to avoid the whole "X vs Y" thing, your arena combatant can be expected to be disemboweled by/face the following:
-Animals of the appropriate CR (ordinary animals, not ones that have been statted up with templates or whatnot)
->Can they hit AC 27 (or 29) reliably and get over his DR 8/Adamantine?
-A horde of level one NPC warriors (let's say ten, shall we?)
->They hit on natural 20s. Their best hopes of victory lie in rushing him for a group grapple to pin the bugger while a few stand by and poke at him in hopes of getting nat 20s to hit. Assuming they are half orcs with 17 STR, they have a +4 attack bonus for their touch attacks. He's got 12 touch AC plus invisibility. They've got +4 grapple, he's got +12 because of his slick armor. 30% chance to get the touch, 16.5% to get the grapple by itself, 4.95% for any individual to successfully grapple him on the rush.
-Any other player's submission (at random)
Lots of holes here, needs work.
-1% chance of facing Cthulu (variety is the spice of life!)
Last man standing because he's underground, out of LoS and LoE :P
-Any sort of odd conditions the Tier One overlords might impose for their own amusement (no gravity, naval battles, everyone's blind, no weapons, using chariots, etc).
Naval battle would honestly suck for him. Zero gravity... hm... he might just hide halfway in the ground if possible? Mindsight gives him a nice leg up when everyone's blind. And he does have his unarmed strikes if no one is permitted weapons...

[daremetoidareyo]

Can we submit more than 1?

[Bobby Baratheon]

Yeah feel free to submit more than one post- just spoiler them if you include more than one build in a post for ease of reading.

I'm liking what I'm seeing so far - I think the challenge here is to maintain enough power to be competitive while having some sort of built in versatility (so far - burrow speed, flight, etc.) to account for the randomness inherent in fighting in a deathmatch arena for the amusement of Batman.

[Cerefel]

I currently have one build ready to enter, and another in the works depending on how setting specific material works within these rules.

Anyway, here's the first build:



Human
16 (After lv4 stat increase)
12
13
10
8
14

OA Samurai 1
Hit and Run Fighter 4

Feats
1- Skill Focus (Iaijutsu)
Human Bonus- Able Learner
Flaw: Shaky- Power Attack
Flaw: Vulnerable- Quick Draw
Fighter Bonus- Improved Initiative
3- Iaijutsu Master
Fighter Bonus- Cleave
Fighter Bonus- Great Cleave

Maxed Skills
Iaijutsu Focus
Diplomacy

Equipment
Brilliant Energy Katana (wielded two-handed)
Masterwork Wakizashi (rarely used)
Blurring Mithral Chain Shirt
10 Potions of Bull's Strength
1 other Masterwork Katana (for when objects need breaking)

Yashiko will generally attempt to negotiate before resorting to violence, but if she decides physical confrontation is unavoidable she will strike first and try to end it quickly.

She generally Power Attacks for her full BAB because her sword ignores armor, but against opponents that are particularly good at dodging, she may use Iaijutsu Master for the attack roll and on subsequent hits (if applicable) will simply PA for less.

Not the most versatile build, but it was a fun warm-up and it has a distinct flavor. This will likely be far from my only entry.

EDIT: Fixed budgeting problems.

[Bobby Baratheon]

After much deliberation, here is what I have brewed up in my laboratory.

Gentlemen, meet Smashy.

Smashy is a Water Orc/Half (Iron) Golem (Fighter 4/Construct 1).
Strength: 32 (15 originally +1 4th level +4 water orc +12 half golem template)
Dexterity: 12 (14 originally -2 half golem template)
Consititution: - (8 originally +2 water orc; half golem template removes his con score)
Intelligence: 4 (12 originally -2 water orc -6 half golem template)
Wisdom: 11 (13 originally -2 water orc)
Charisma 2 (10 originally -2 water orc -6 half golem)

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus fighter), Jotunbrud, Improved Overrun (flaw), Power Attack (flaw, Improved Grapple (bonus fighter),Scorpion's Grasp, Improved Initiative
Flaws: Murky-eyed, Inattentive

HP: 52 (10 from 1st level + 5.5 + 5.5 + 5.5 + 5.5 + 20 [template]; this assumes average rolls)
Fort +6, Reflex +2, Will +1
BAB +4/ Grapple +23 (+4 I. grapple +4 jotunbrud +11 str +4 bab)
AC: 31 (8 full plate + 11 natural + 1 dex +1 bracers of armor) or 35 (if using tower shield)
Initiative: +5 (+1 dex, +4 I. iniatiative)
Special Qualities: DR 15/adamantine (text for template says DR 25/+2, but there's no way a half golem has better DR than a full golem; the example they give has DR 15, as does a normal iron golem, so I went with that instead), Magic Immunity (as iron golem), Construct Traits, Breath Attack (as iron golem), Rust Vulnerability (as iron golem)

Equipment: Full plate w/ +1 armor spikes, tower shield, +1 greatsword, cold iron longsword, handaxe, light mace, +11 composite longbow (they did remove the +4 limit with 3.5, no?), +1 bracers of armor, and the humble glaive (total cost of 7882gp; he has 20 cold iron and 20 silver arrows as well as normal but I know thats within his remaining budget and I don't feel like doing the math right now)

Tactics: Well, Smashy's not really the brightest crayon in the box. He has a couple of core tactics that he can spam with relative immunity to a lot of enemy tactics.
1: He can hit you really hard with his greatsword. +16 to hit, 2d6+17 plus any power attack shenanigans. Not too shabby.
2: He can hug you real close and impale you on his +1 armor spikes, after using Scorpion's grasp to grapple you, or knocking you over with improved overrun and then grappling you. Or just grappling you. He's not too picky. Once he's got you, though, odds are you're not leaving any time soon.
3. If you're flying, or far way, he'll shoot you with that bow.
4. If you're shooting him or have a really good attack bonus or if he's approaching you from far away, he'll turtle up behind that tower shield.
The strength of this build is less his combat prowess, as mildly impressive as it is for a fighter of his level, but in his immunities. Magic immunity makes it pretty frakkin hard to do a whole lot to him, and construct traits make him immune to mind affecting stuff. His saves still suck, and I'm sure there's ways around his immunities to exploit that. However, how many unprepared tier 5 5th level characters can do that, and survive the beating he's going to lay down? The construct traits also make it easier for him to survive in adverse conditions. The poison breath attack makes things interesting, too. Free action every 1d4+1 rounds, with a potential of 4d4 consitution damage on two DC19 fort saves. Getting close to him is death, one way or another, and the damage reduction/magic immunity makes it hard to do much from afar. He is by no means versatile in what he can do, but very little can be done to him. In this scenario, that's enough for me. I know he's weak to glitterdust, for example, but what exactly are you going to do to him in that time frame?


This is a variation on a monster I like to trot out in my campaign when the players get too uppity. They're level five, so a couple of these bad boys can force them to actually play tactically.

I'm going to start my second build here. Probably won't finish it until tonight.

Brave Sir Robin
Brave Sir Robin is an idea that occurred to me with the healer submissions. I wanted to find a way to make a paladin competitve (it says a lot about the crappiness of paladins that's its hard to even make them mildly competitive in the little leagues). So, without further ado, meet Brave Sir Robin.
Brave Sir Robin is a lesser Celadrin with the Magic Blooded template. He is a Paladin of freedom 4/Healer 1.
STR: 12
DEX: 14 (originally 12 +2 racial)
CON: 12 (14 -2 racial)
INT: 8
WIS: 11 (13 -2 template)
CHA: 20 (15 +1 4th level + 2 racial + 2 template)

Feats: Dynamic priest, Power Attack (flaw), Practised Spellcaster (flaw), Divine Might
Flaws: Murky-eyed, Metal intolerance

HP: 36 (11 + 6.5 + 6.5 + 5.5 + 6.5, assuming average rolls)
Fort +12 (+4 pally +2 healer +1 Con +5 Cha)
Ref +8 (+1 pally +2 Dex +5 Cha)
Will +8 (+1 pally +2 healer +5 Cha)
BAB +4/Grapple +5
AC 24 (+2 Dex + 6 [+1 dragonhide breastplate] +1 bracers of armor +5 [+1 tower shield])
Special Qualities: Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/day, Lay on Hands (20 hp total), Immunity of Compulsion (p. of freedom, replaces fear immunity), Divine Health, Turn Undead (8/day), Fire Resistance 10 (celadrin), scorching ray 1/day (celadrin)
Equipment
+1 Dragonhide breastplate (1700gp)
+1 tower shield (1180gp)
Bracers of Armor (1000gp)
Mighty (+1) composite longbow and forty arrows (202 gp)
Masterwork flail (358gp)
+1 longsword (2365gp)
3 potions of bulls strength (900gp)
4 potions of eagle's splendor (1200gp)

It's a start, at least. The idea is to use Divine Might to convert turn undead attempts into +Cha to damage, and to be able to healbot himself to stay in the fight. The healer class lets him add +Cha to healing spells from that class, and with practised spellcaster cure light wounds now cures 1d8+10. Becomes a potent anti-undead weapon if necessary. Immunity to compulsion gives him a measure of mental protection, while his high saves protect him. Cha is also his spellcasting stat for healer as well (screw you, MAD). I just need to boost his to hit and maybe his strength (potions of bull's strength?), and with power attack that's not a bad damage output potential. His healing will keep him alive until enough of those charisma/potion enhanced attacks land. If worst comes to worst, he can set himself on fire and grapple. Man, I love a game where immolating yourself enhances your combat prowess :smallbiggrin:


Here's a third build that ocurred to me. . . this is one is going to need some work, and it's hardly the most creative option. So without further ado, I present: Trippseratops the Friendly Neighborhood Goliath.

Trippseratops is a Proto-Creature Goliath Fighter 4. Trippseratops spent 3040gp to have enlarge person cast on himself permanently.
STR: 24 (13+ 1 [4th level] +4 [goliath] +2 [large] +4 [template])
DEX: 10 (14 [4th level] -2 [goliath] -2 [large])
CON: 16 (12 +2 [goliath] +2 [template])
INT: 13 (15 -2 [template])
WIS: 10
CHA: 4 (8 -4 [template])

Feats: Improved Initiative, Power Attack (fighter bonus), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dwarven warpike; flaw) Combat Expertise (flaw), Improved Trip (fighter bonus), Knock-down, Blind-fight
Flaws: Shaky (him hitting at range is going to be luck anyway), Inattentive
Traits: Aggresive (+2 intitiative, -1 AC)

Hp: 38 (13 + 8.5 + 8.5 + 85, assuming average rolls)
Fort: +7 (+4 fighter +3 Con)
Reflex: +1 (+1 fighter; ouch. . . even smashy had a better reflex than that)
Will: +1 (+1 fighter; again this sucks)
BAB: +4/ Grapple +12 (+4 BAB +4 large +4 powerful build)
AC: 21 (+9 heavy plate +3 natural armor [template] +1 bracers of armor -1 size -1 trait) or 24 with heavy shield.
Special Qualities: Powerful build.

Tactics: Three guesses as to what Trippseratops does, and the first two don't count. His trip is around +19 (+7 str +4 improved trip +8 size), and knockdown gives him a free trip after doing more than 10 points of damage in a single attack. Improved trip lets him get a free attack on a successful trip. You do the math. Also, seeing as he is large, with a huge reach weapon (thanks, powerful build!) he has a very wide reach, and can threaten a lot of squares. His natural reach is ten feet, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a huge reach weapon would extend that to twenty feet, no? Armor spikes let him threaten adjacent squares, and in any event he's getting a huge flail as a back up. The huge dwarven pike does 4d6 slashing or piercing damage, and can be used for trips. Yay! His AC blows, but +6 initiative should give him at least a non-zero chance of going first and getting that sweet, sweet knockdown. His rather long reach makes it a little easier for him to close with the enemy, and his attack bonus is high enough that he'll hit some of the time, and if he connects he's pretty much guarenteed at least ten points of damage for the free trip. Average damage with the warpike is 4d6 + 10. Average damage with the warhammer is 3d6 + 7. Average damage with a Huge light crossbow is 3d8.

Weaknesses: Hoo boy. Anything that requires a will save or a reflex save is going to hit poor Trippseratops very, very hard. He'll do well against most beatsticks, but anything beyond that will probably overtax his meager defenses. Adverse conditions could also pretty easily negate his go-to tactic, reducing him a fighter with oversized weapons and a high strength. Not the worst place to be, but not amazing either. His AC is also relatively low, which is why I went with the Aggresive trait to pump initiative. Going first is more important for Trippseratops than a lot of other submissions because of his poor defenses and his low hp (thanks, LA+1!). Not the most viable build, but his one trick hit pretty hard. Were some actual tournament to arise I would go with Smashy or even Brave Sir Robin over Trippseratops.

[ben-zayb]

Yeah feel free to submit more than one post- just spoiler them if you include more than one build in a post for ease of reading.

I'm liking what I'm seeing so far - I think the challenge here is to maintain enough power to be competitive while having some sort of built in versatility (so far - burrow speed, flight, etc.) to account for the randomness inherent in fighting in a deathmatch arena for the amusement of Batman.

Alright, I added in Momonja in my original post for Devlin! Man, Charisma damage is so delicious in this type of environment!

[Cerefel]

Hey, uh, Cerefel? Are those items within the price cap (2500gp max per magic item; ie you can get more than one, but no individual magic item can cost more, and you're limited by WBL)

WBL for a 5th level character is 9000gp right?

Masterwork Weapons: Free (Ancestral Daisho)
Enhancement to Daisho: 2000gp
Blurring Mithral Chain Shirt: 2250gp
Gauntlets of Ogre Power: 4000gp
Total: 8250gp

Oh, I just noticed that while my total budget was fine, I shouldn't have the gauntlets because of the max value stipulation. I'll have to revise my items a bit.

EDIT: New item list!

Masterwork Weapons: Free (Ancestral Daisho)
Enhancement to Daisho: 2000gp
Blurring Mithral Chain Shirt: 2250gp
Ten Potions of Bull's Strength: 300gp x10
Katana, Masterwork: 335gp
Total: 7585gp

[Bobby Baratheon]

Thanks! Nice builds, by the way!

EDIT: What did you guys think of Smashy? This is the first time I've ever tried to optimize a build like this (on the Internet, no less!). Any thoughts?

[Cerefel]

Thanks! Nice builds, by the way!

EDIT: What did you guys think of Smashy? This is the first time I've ever tried to optimize a build like this (on the Internet, no less!). Any thoughts?

You seem to have built a steamroller. The one thing I'm curious about is using Water Orc when Con is just becoming a nonability anyway.

[Bobby Baratheon]

He had four levels of fighter before becoming a construct, and those bonus hitpoints aren't retroactively removed. I could have pumped his wisdom instead, but I thought having 8 extra hit points was marginally better than an extra +1 to wisdom, especially since constructs die at 0 hp, not -10. Also, conterintuitively enough, the guy with a massive iron arm that probably weighs ~100lbs gets a swim speed from Water Orc, which would give him a fallback in a naval engagement. Not sure how that interacts with rust vulnerability, but meh. I'll take it.

EDIT: I also thought the swapping guantlets for potions of bull's strength thing was pretty crafty. There's a way aroud pretty much anything in D&D (except, oddly enough, max skill ranks. I have yet to see a way to increase your max skill ranks for early entry shenanigans).

Wait - are the hit points retroactively removed? I mean, if he had lost consitution to ability damage, then yes they're gone. What about simply losing a constitution score? If so, then I'll shift his stats around to get a higher Will.

EDIT 2: I will restat Smashy accordingly.

[Snowbluff]

Wait - are the hit points retroactively removed? I mean, if he had lost consitution to ability damage, then yes they're gone. What about simply losing a constitution score? If so, then I'll shift his stats around to get a higher Will.

They are.

I would object to a half construct NPC since it doesn't have an LA line, but since it's an NPC challenge, W/E. :smalltongue:

Thinking about making a Marrulurk for a different kind of character. :3

[ben-zayb]

Thanks! Nice builds, by the way!

EDIT: What did you guys think of Smashy? This is the first time I've ever tried to optimize a build like this (on the Internet, no less!). Any thoughts?It's rock solid. DR15/adamantine pretty much stops any animal attack, and Golem immunities would pretty much block the majority of Conditions; Immunity to Magic stops almost any spell/SLA that allows SR. Reflex-based, no SR, non-fire area attacks will be your main problem, and your worst case scenario would be anyone with the Rust Monster's Rust (Ex) ability that will likely OHKO you due to your touch AC of 11 and Reflex Save of +2.

[ATHATH]

Hm... I usually build casters, but Tiers 5 and 6 don't have any except for the Paladin and- THERE'S A FULL-CASTER IN THERE?! Time for some fun. :smallamused:

This build isn't finished yet; I 'll finish it later, but I want to demonstrate the concept.

30-finger Lenny:
Hellbred (Body) Healer 5 (was born with extra fingers)

Stats (After Racial Adjustments)
STR: 12
DEX: 8
CON: 15 (14 after taking Cerebrosis)
INT: 6
WIS: 17 (18 after 4th level)
CHA: 14

Feats:
1: Necrotic Cyst
1,200 GP and a point of CON loss: Cerebrosis
Other Feats: I don't know yet. I'll probably aim for something that grants Suggestion or Charm Person as an SLA, so that I can capitalize on the weak will saves of fighter-types.

Skills:
Pump Diplomacy, and never look back.

The idea of this build is to emulate a "real" spellcaster, via the Healer, spell-list expanding feats, Sanctified and Corrupt spells, and SLA-granting feats. I'd diplomance the guards of my between-battle holding cell to get information on what the next battle is going to be, so that I can prepare appropriate spells. Generally, my battle-plan will go like this:
Just before the match, burn all of my third-level spell slots on casting Create Lantern Archon. Tell the archons to hover at the distance of the maximum range of their lasers above my foe, and laser him to death (and heal me if I get injured and they are in range). This shouldn't count as a dangerous task, as most of the submitted builds here can't do much to airborne foes (if they do get hit, they can just fly out of range and heal themselves). I'd then spend the rest of the battle either burning my second level spell-slots on Lahm's Finger Darts (which is why I gave Lenny so many fingers) or sprinting around the opponent, depending on how well the archons are doing and whether my Sanctuary is effective. I could also pop a Sanctuary and just summon waves of Eldrich Horrors if my opponent can use ranged attacks.

This build is weak to:
A lack of prep-time
High-Will Save foes
Unexpected Circumstances During the Match
STR damage (if I unload all of my Finger Darts, I'll have only 2 STR left)
Reflex Saves

Random Ideas:

Theoretically, a non-magical build could combo Magical Training, Southern Spellcaster, and Mad Faith to get 3rd level Sorc/Wiz spells, although only one per spell level (except for cantrips).

Also, could you say that someone in the stands is a trusted ally, and augment spells with Eldrich-Corruption with impunity?

[Bobby Baratheon]

I would say that an arena full of people anxiously waiting for you to be disemboweled do not count as allies :smallbiggrin: Nice try though. The cyst is a good trick - if you can get access to the higher level cyst spells you can blow people up.

EDIT: Also, the guards don't any more than you do about the upcoming match. What we're making here are not Batman-lites, but flexible characters that can still pack a punch despite having disadvantageous classes. My favorite example so far is the burrow speed and mindsight character. This is most likely a suboptimal choice in a normal game, but here its gold because it gives him an option he didn't have before, and one he might need depending on changing arena conditions. Think Hunger Games - the arena's managers are going to shake things up pretty frequently, which is why relying overly on a single strategy is a bad idea.

[ben-zayb]

I'm not sure if abusing spellcasting capabilities to 9th-level spells is within the spirit of the contest. I mean, it's easy to bust out a level 5 that casts as a CL20+ 9th-level-spell caster (assuming racial spellcasting are (Ex)) that eventually gets NI to ability scores and get all feats (including epic) with enough preparation but without needing to touch Pun-Pun's tired tricks, but I doubt that would make for an entertaining contest. Just my 2 cp.

[Bobby Baratheon]

@ben-zayb - I would agree with you, although doing so is technically within the parameters of the thread. I mean, we all already know that casters > everything else. I guess that I did want to see the shallow end of the tier system get amped up though, and that includes the healer.

How would everyone feel about just removing the healer, or simply placing a max spell level (2 or 3, I would imagine) cap on spellcasting characters?

[Snowbluff]

How would everyone feel about just removing the healer, or simply placing a max spell level (2 or 3, I would imagine) cap on spellcasting characters?

Hey, you said we can be as cheesy as we want. :smallbiggrin:

I will point out that Pun Pun is not class optimization. Doesn't say much about T5-6 if it doesn't matter what you did with your class. At least my build uses the healer's slots.

[ATHATH]

Yeah, capping the spells at level 3 seems fine. I wasn't aiming to get 9s, but I can see how it could happen.

What about SLAs? Isn't there a feat that gives you commune 1/day or something (you had to be hit with a certain type of spell before, if I recall correctly)?

Can we use the Incarnate Construct trick to get an LA +2 template?

[Snowbluff]

You pretty much just did what I did, sans the versatile spellcaster/magical training cheese.

Protip for the Vile/Sanctified Healer is grabbing Shape Soulmeld:Strongheart Vest and a feat or two for more Essentia to dampen the stat damage. Healers can restore their own stats, so there's a star.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Fair enough. So healer's good, but no spells beyond third level? Also - I don't mind the cheese (in fact I love it :smallbiggrin:) but we all know even a full caster, even a healer, would be dominant. A pimped out healer that doesn't get into Batman territory would be an intersting contestant though. In fact, it gives me an idea . . .

Also, you can use any template or race as long as the total LA isn't higher than +1. Sorry if that wasn't clear from the guidelines - I'll edit them to make them clearer.

[ATHATH]

What about savage progressions (the half-fey one seems really good)?

Does the Incarnate Construct template get rid of the SLAs given by the Phrenic and Half-Fey templates? Can you use it to negate 2 of the LA from the Fire-Souled template? Can we attract a Tier 1 caster with Leadership?

[Snowbluff]

Fair enough. So healer's good, but no spells beyond third level? Also - I don't mind the cheese (in fact I love it :smallbiggrin:) but we all know even a full caster, even a healer, would be dominant. A pimped out healer that doesn't get into Batman territory would be an intersting contestant though. In fact, it gives me an idea . . .

Also, you can use any template or race as long as the total LA isn't higher than +1. Sorry if that wasn't clear from the guidelines - I'll edit them to make them clearer.
Can I use pseudo 4th level spells to qualify for reserve feats? D:

I'll change my build with lower level reserve abilities.

Does the Incarnate Construct template get rid of the SLAs given by the Phrenic and Half-Fey templates? Can you use it to negate 2 of the LA from the Fire-Souled template? Can we attract a Tier 1 caster with Leadership?


Special Attacks: The base creature loses all its special attacks.
Special Qualities: The base creature loses all its special qualities.

Yes, no, no.

Also, we can't be level 6 to even use leadership.

[Bobby Baratheon]

If you desire a cohort, you can have a blind, deaf, dumb, mute, brain dead level one commoner with every flaw (and no bonus feats from any of them), and no arms or legs. That seems more than fair :smalltongue:

Considering this is giantitp, though, SOMEONE will find a way to make a semi-effective strategy involving Gimpy the utterly useless commoner. Even if it's just finding a way to write Explosive Runes on his forehead and tricking the other guy into reading it. Or shooting him from a catapult. Or using him as an improvised club.

[ben-zayb]

If you desire a cohort, you can have a blind, deaf, dumb, mute, brain dead level one commoner with every flaw (and no bonus feats from any of them), and no arms or legs. That seems more than fair :smalltongue:

Considering this is giantitp, though, SOMEONE will find a way to make a semi-effective strategy involving Gimpy the utterly useless commoner. Even if it's just finding a way to write Explosive Runes on his forehead and tricking the other guy into reading it. Or shooting him from a catapult. Or using him as an improvised club.The answer would be yes, and it would be the strongest entry so far if given preparation time and mooks to warm itself up with.:smallcool:

[Zetapup]

If you desire a cohort, you can have a blind, deaf, dumb, mute, brain dead level one commoner with every flaw (and no bonus feats from any of them), and no arms or legs. That seems more than fair :smalltongue:

Considering this is giantitp, though, SOMEONE will find a way to make a semi-effective strategy involving Gimpy the utterly useless commoner. Even if it's just finding a way to write Explosive Runes on his forehead and tricking the other guy into reading it. Or shooting him from a catapult. Or using him as an improvised club.

Every flaw? I have a feeling that a build with that would find a way to use chicken infested or the one pig flaw to their advantage :smalltongue: (I'm not sure whether those are dragon compendium or not, but I'm sure there's a flaw that could be exploited somewhere)

[ATHATH]

Can I use pseudo 4th level spells to qualify for reserve feats? D:

I'll change my build with lower level reserve abilities.


Yes, no, no.

Also, we can't be level 6 to even use leadership.
Fire-Souled grants Leadership as a feat, which I wasn't sure if Incarnate Construct kept.

Does anyone have any good suggestions for spells to fill up my first-level spell slots?

Also, Bobby, you didn't answer my question about Savage Progressions.

[Bobby Baratheon]

My bad - I kind of forgot. Busy day at work :smallannoyed: I'm honestly not familiar with Savage progressions. IIRC, isn't it where a monster becomes a class? Like, you start out as a baby pit fiend and as you level up you get bigger and stronger? I'm not really familiar with it, but as long as it fits in the existing parameters of the contest I see no reason why not. I think that we should nix the leadership exploit though. Thoughts?

[Bobby Baratheon]

Also, in regard to gimpy, there is no prep time (guards come at random to grab you from your cell), and he doesn't get any mooks (he is a mook!). Also, he only gets core flaws (and no extra feats from them), and recall that he is braindead on top of his physical challenges (blind, deaf, dumb, mute, no arms or legs, leprosy, and chronic diarrhea. Yes - I just added those last two in :smalltongue:). Man, I really really wan to see gimpy get powergamed to the point that he can do anything beyond flop over.

[Zetapup]

Also, in regard to gimpy, there is no prep time (guards come at random to grab you from your cell), and he doesn't get any mooks (he is a mook!). Also, he only gets core flaws (and no extra feats from them), and recall that he is braindead on top of his physical challenges (blind, deaf, dumb, mute, no arms or legs, leprosy, and chronic diarrhea. Yes - I just added those last two in :smalltongue:). Man, I really really wan to see gimpy get powergamed to the point that he can do anything beyond flop over.

Hm. Maybe use the sacrifice rules to get a wish if you can pump your bonus to the check high enough? That seems slightly against the spirit of the rules though.

[ATHATH]

I asked about them because they might be classified as an "LA variant," and thus limited to only one level.

[ATHATH]

Another build stub:

Casper:
Lesser D'hin'ni Fighter 1/Ghost Savage Progression 4

Use your Fighter feat for Improved Initiative or something. Fly above your opponent while un-manifested and (manifest and) wreak havoc with Telekinesis from 880 feet away (!). Archers will find it hard to hit you with your Wind Wall SLA. As extra insurance, de-manifest while you wait for your telekinesis to recharge. Enjoy your practically infinite uses of Prestidigitation during your downtime. Be wary of Soulknives- if they can find a way to reach you within a few seconds of one of your uses of Telekinesis, they have a 50% of being able to hurt you (when that's your WEAKNESS...). Your true weakness is other ghosts, however, as you only have one hit-die and will die quickly in direct combat with something that can actually hurt you.

Alt Build:

Lesser D'hin'ni Soulknife 4/Savage Progression Ghost 1

This build still functions if Savage Progressions are considered LA. Chuck knives down upon the plebians who can't fly from up to 30 feet away!

[ATHATH]

How well protected is the arena? Could an intimidate-focused build allow you to force the spectators to chip in?

A Scourge of the Seas build might work well, as the contestants' names are announced when they enter the arena.

[ATHATH]

Aha! I have found a use for Gimpy!

A Despot (Dragon 312) gains Leadership at fifth level, allowing him to acquire Gimpy. He can then use the Eldritch Corruption feat on Gimpy for "free" metamagic, or stab him in the back and drain his life with Life Leech. This might violate his CoC, but he only needs his Despot levels to summon Gimpy, and Gimpy will still remain after the Despot loses his Despot status.

((I''ve noticed that the past three posts in this thread are mine. Is this dead?))

[Cerefel]

I would say the thread is pretty much dead. Probably because the OP stopped posting.

[ATHATH]

Maybe someone else could take over for the OP?

[Cerefel]

If you want to take over, just PM the OP and ask, I suppose.