3.5 Surviving an Evil Group

[Triskavanski]

I have a game i play on sundays for 3.5, and after a mostly TPK, the game is going to a new group. And, they've all become evil freaks of nature. Except for me. Mind you, we've not stated that there will be PVP, and I don't intend to invoke any. But if there is PVP I want to be ready

We've got a Raptorean Bone Creature fighter. This guy isn't very tactically sound with his play style and tends to make characters mostly for power rather than flavor. Overall I'm not too terribly worried about him, even though he's going to resist most phsyical attacks and fly around a lot with his foot bow.

Then we have a Necropolotin Deathmaster, this guy scares me a bit more. Only because he's got magic, and an army of undead. I'd likely see him coming first though.

then there is a Drow Rogue/Assassin. Playwise, I don't entirely see this guy starting up the combat, but he'd be a bit hard to deal with when he starts using poisons and magic that could result in a quick insta kill.

The one I'm most scared of is the Pixie Fighter/Sorcerer. Particularly the arrows and constant invisibility. The arrows being unlimited, ex, and very high on saves for Will/Fort lead to me being more afraid of this guy, especially since I don't know him well.



So, what I want to do is survive if any of these guys were to suddenly turn on me, and be able to take them down or escape. Again, I'm not looking to start PVP and I don't know if any of them are gonna try it. Because I don't like LA/RHD I tend to avoid those races as much as possible, but might be willing to take a little dip.

The GM has a random number of books banned, mostly things from specific campaign worlds, because of "Shenanigans"

Any ideas on something that could be fun, and somewhat reliable?

[Immabozo]

Steadfast determination will help you make will saves, if you are a high con character.

What level is this?

[Triskavanski]

We're starting off at level 5.
So if I pick a non-la character, I'd end up being at least 1 level higher than the rest. The Bone creature has 2 levels undead 1 level fighter, and a LA of 2. Forgot that the DM ended up putting that into place as a houserule.

I forget exactly what I rolled but it was something like 16, 16, 15, 15, 14, 10


If I could make a dude who was all con, Or at least heavy on con, Steadfast might be really useful there. It at least removes the 5% chance of auto failure.

Possibly focus on doing something where I've got poison or something going a lot, that I can always pass the fort save even on a 1.

[Immabozo]

Going straight wizard, sorcerer, or psion will be FAR superior to all of them. Psion/Thrallherd with metaconert power is disgusting, but that might be too powerful.

[Triskavanski]

Well, two of them at least have pretty decent SR. (Pixie/Drow)

The DM is however allowing the use of knowstones, so the Sorc could be most useful with that, being able to learn every spell. The Biggest issue is running out of spells still, like expending everything to take down a monster, then before we rest, they strike me out.

I do know the DM doesn't want Psionic Shenanigans, and even if he was okay, its one system I don't pay attention to really that well.

Though The game is possible it could go into epic levels too.
I had thought about possibly playing my God Wizard (Wizard/Archivist) who would have access to all spells divine, and most arcane spells and work towards generating a new demiplane and race. It'll be difficult though, with the possibility of the other guys going a little nutty.

[DarkSoul]

Well, two of them at least have pretty decent SR. (Pixie/Drow)Orb of X spells don't care.

[Surpriser]

Before you even start thinking about character optimization:

Have you tried, you know, talking to the other players and the DM? A simple question of "Hey, what will be the expectations about PvP in this game, seeing most of you will be playing evil characters?" should do the trick.

If you come in with a hyper-optimized character or one who is obviously built to counter their abilities, the assumption that YOU are expecting PvP is easy to make even if THEY did not even think about that possiblity.

[sakuuya]

Take 1-2 levels of the savage progression ghost template (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a). One level will get you all the necessary immunities to deal with stuff like Death Attack and (Ex) arrows; two will get you Turn Resistance (which you probably want, to keep your Death Master buddy from rebuking you) and very strong telekinesis. Pick up Lifesense (Libris Mortis p. 28) as one of your feats, and you won't have to worry about invisibility, either.

Note, however, that while taking fewer than 5 levels of the ghost template class is RAW-legal (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a), it's also considered hella cheesy. Then again, you're in a game with knowstones, so...

[Triskavanski]

Before you even start thinking about character optimization:

Have you tried, you know, talking to the other players and the DM? A simple question of "Hey, what will be the expectations about PvP in this game, seeing most of you will be playing evil characters?" should do the trick.

If you come in with a hyper-optimized character or one who is obviously built to counter their abilities, the assumption that YOU are expecting PvP is easy to make even if THEY did not even think about that possiblity.

Well Part of that I believe would end up getting us into PVP if I ask the players, and they hadn't thought about it. Besides that, the character would probably end up evolving to deal with more than just them. Learning more on how to develop the character, I should be able to deal with more instead of being a one trick pony

I'm thinking more along the lines of a caster though now, something with a crazy high concentration and slight of hand. (to use the SoH check to conceal my casting some more)


here is the book list we just got from him.

Complete books, Monster manules, MIC/Spell Comp, arms and Equipment, Dungeonscape, city scape, drow of the under dark, explares of evil, frost burn, ghost walk, book of vile darkness, heroes of battle, heroes of horror, libris mortis, planar handbook/manuel of the planes, masters of wild, oriental adventuresRaces of stone, wild, destiny, standstorm, savage speices (No custom race) sword and fist, song and silence, tome of magic, tome of battle, unearthed arcana.

[Flickerdart]

Evil people don't have to in-fight. It's more effective not to, and they can still have friends and allies that they'd never betray.

[Crake]

The one I'm most scared of is the Pixie Fighter/Sorcerer. Particularly the arrows and constant invisibility. The arrows being unlimited, ex, and very high on saves for Will/Fort lead to me being more afraid of this guy, especially since I don't know him well.

Your DM must be pretty liberal to give him infinite arrows. Arrows have a weight you know, and the ability says nothing about conjuring the arrows out of nowhere, so he would have to be carrying around this infinite supply of arrows somehow.

Note that the ability may be Ex, but the arrows are definitely magical items, listen in savage species (page 51) alongside the pixie savage progression class which allows them to craft said arrows. For reference, the memory loss arrows are 607gp, and the sleep arrows are 107gp.

[Triskavanski]

Evil people don't have to in-fight. It's more effective not to, and they can still have friends and allies that they'd never betray.
I know they don't. Which is why I'm not trying to actively PVP. My only goal here is to be able to survive and escape.

Evil Genius Handbook rule #1, Always have an escape pod.


I'm thinking what I'll be doing is focusing on high amounts of concentration, possibly picking up stead fast determination and sometime later diamond counter, to get all my saves running off Con.


Okay here's an idea so far..

Human
1: Endurance, 2: Steadfast Determination F: ??? BF: Iron Will
3: Indomitable Soul

I'm thinking of doing at least 3 levels of Hexblade. Getting cha to saves (vs spells) and the ability to ignore any spell effect I pass that has a partial Will or Fort Save.



Your DM must be pretty liberal to give him infinite arrows. Arrows have a weight you know, and the ability says nothing about conjuring the arrows out of nowhere, so he would have to be carrying around this infinite supply of arrows somehow.

Note that the ability may be Ex, but the arrows are definitely magical items, listen in savage species (page 51) alongside the pixie savage progression class which allows them to craft said arrows. For reference, the memory loss arrows are 607gp, and the sleep arrows are 107gp.


Oh! That is something I should bring up there then. Cause just by going through the monster Manuel it just kinda looks like infinite arrows of sleep/memory loss whenever.

[Nettlekid]

I played in an Evil game and had a very similar concern. I ended up making an extremely stealthy character, with a Ring of Invisibility and a Wand of Silence, as well as Darkstalker for security and Mindbender's Telepathy for conversation, and Mindsight so I knew what was going on. I never showed myself to the party. I was helpful, scouting thing and chatting with enemies and gathering intel, though I wasn't great in a fight. No one could betray me because no one could find me.

Of course, my intel gathering meant that I was the one that more frequently betrayed others, making secret deals with our enemies and stuff. But hey, it worked.

[morkendi]

last evil campaign I played in, I used this... I was very fun. I had a free 1La in this game, but this build can be easily adapted. You could easily hide from the party if needed. Let them kill each other and take on the last man standing if it comes to that. Build is lvl 9, but you could back off a little to 5th and still be viable. I pretended to be the wizards famliar often.

Party needed a skill monkey, but I wanted to play something a little different.

Race is Tibbit
Racial Traits
Monstrous Humanoid (shapeshifter): As monstrous humanoids, tibbits are immune to spells that affect only humanoids. (Tibbits, of course, would be horrified to learn that they are classified as "monstrous.") They also have the shapeshifter subtype.

+2 Dexterity, -2 Strength: Tibbits are small and relatively weak, but they have a cat's quick reflexes and fluid agility.

Small: As a Small creature, a tibbit gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use, and her lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium creature.

Tibbit base land speed is 20 feet
.
Darkvision: Tibbits can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and lupins can function just fine with no light at all.

Feline Transformation: At will, as a standard action, a tibbit can transform into a house cat. This effect is similar to the spell polymorph but with a number of key changes.


Free +1la, I took dark as it fits well
Darkvision 60 ft.
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Use the Hide skill even while being observed (except in natural daylight, the area of a daylight spell, or a similar effect).
Resistance to cold 10.
Superior low-light vision.
+10 movement

Beguiler1/ Warlock 4/ Unseen Seer 4

Stats after rolls, racial, and level
str8, dex 22, con 14, int 18, wis 14, cha 16

Flaw non combatant
feats
Surrogate spell casting so I can cast and blast in cat form
dark stalker
precise shoot
practiced spell caster warlock

Highlights
Race, class, template seem to work well together
hide is already 26 with the 8 ranks required for unseen seer at level 9 in humanoid form and 30 in cat form
damage is ok if I have it figured right. 5d6 with practiced spell caster and 2d6 bonus from unseen seer

Beguiler gives a few good spells that are useful.

Warlock evocations are Baleful utterance, see unseen, breath of night (would give concealment), fell flight, walk unseen.

[Crake]

Oh! That is something I should bring up there then. Cause just by going through the monster Manuel it just kinda looks like infinite arrows of sleep/memory loss whenever.

It is worth noting that pixies can make these arrows without any need for meeting any of the item crafting pre-requisites at all, so while he may not have access to infinite arrows, he can certainly make them given time, money and xp

[Yogibear41]

Going straight wizard, sorcerer, or psion will be FAR superior to all of them. Psion/Thrallherd with metaconert power is disgusting, but that might be too powerful.

At 5th level the rogue/assassin could still easily kill him if he wanted to. IMO its less about what you play and more about how you play. If you assume that one of them as some point is always going to try and kill you then you should plan your actions accordingly. Never put yourself in a position where they have an advantage against you (granted to an extent this is almost impossible to do, there is always a chance that they will catch you with your pants down)

I watched a 2nd level psychic rogue and a 4th level spell-thief kill a 12th level wizard a week ago. Granted the wizard had just come out of a situation where he had literally 0 spells and no magic items to speak of, and was basically a glorified commoner. Basically moral of the story is no matter how bad you think you are, you can always get caught in a bad situation.


If you want a super awesome evil flavored template, and are open to 3rd party, look in the book of erotic fantasy (I know right, just trust me) for the half-devil and half-demon templates.

[Triskavanski]

Here is one build I'm thinking of at the moment.

Warlock 17ish/Hexblade 3
Starting off as Warlock 2/Hexblade 3

Str 10 Dex 14 con 16, Wis 15 Int 14, C15

Human
1: Endurance, 2: Steadfast Determination F: ??? BF: Iron Will
3: Indomitable Soul

Invocation 1: Dark One's Own Luck
Invocation 2: Eldritch spear?

DOOL might end up coming later though, since it can't go past my class level. At Six or so I do plan on taking Practiced Spellcaster so I can cast as a full warlock. Might not go warlock, but dunno what to go and Hexblade doesn't intrest me enough to go all the way through it. Just going 3 levels to get the +cha to saves vs spells and mettle.
I don't know the flaw to take however.

But with that hexblade 3, I'd have this going for me.
Con for both Will power and Fort. Can't fail fort saves on a 1. Get to reroll twice for most will saves (Mind effecting/Fear) Ignore partial effects of Fort/Will saves I make for spells.

[Yogibear41]

No reason to have a high wisdom if you are taking steadfast, might want to make wisdom your lowest score, unless you plan to use it for spell casting.

Hexblade 4/Paladin of Tyranny 3 into Blackguard can get you some cool stuff. Debuffs, high saves, and Mettle. Be sure to take the 4th level hexblade substitution level in PHB2.


Str 16 Dex 10 Con 14 Wis 14 Int 14 Cha 15


Are you using LA buyoff? If you are I would recommend at least grabbing a +1 la since you will start the game with it bought off, and you should catch up on levels pretty quick anyway.

[Triskavanski]

As far as i know, we're not using LA buy off. we're certainly not having it at the start here. This puts me at the unique advantage of having more HD than everyone else.

And well, while Wis wouldn't be used for will saves much anymore, it does have bonuses towards perception based checks. The Warlock I'd have figured I wouldn't be using str for my blasts too much. If I went pure Hexblade I'd probally switch the wis to Str.

I don't know if the Pally and Hexblade bonuses would stack for saves there to be honest to really get that. However I could take a level of survivor at level 5, as I believe I pass the "Highest base save must be below your level" by level 4. If not, level 6/7 to get a +3 to all saves and evasion. I probally wouldn't go much further than that, and certainly would not take it with anything that has less than perfect bab to start with. Getting five levels of the class would put a full bab character on part with a normal rogue.

This could be something to get as well.
DIVINE DENIAL
You harden your will against the power of the deities.
Prerequisites:Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Iron Will.
Benefit:Whenever you are the target of a divine spell, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws to resist the spell. If the spell does not allow a saving throw, you can make a Will save against the spell’s DC as if it allowed a save. If you succeed, you negate the effect of the spell.


EDIT: I just also realized that Hexblade could qualify for Dragon Disciple if I went 5 levels Hex. And with a few house rules of ours to make the skills closer to pathfinder (Skill ranks are always 1 for 1, class skills just auto get the +3 bonus even without skill points in there.) I could keep hexblade up until level 6/7ish Maybe switch out with a Swashbuckler for a few levels or something, And Pick up Iajitsu Master for some crazy amounts of damage ability.

[Surpriser]

I am still of the opinion that you should talk to them before the game starts (even before you build characters, preferably).
Bringing everyone on the same page is important for any campaign, arguably even more so for thos with evil characters.

If you don't bring it up, and they didn't think about PvP by themselves, you have just wasted build ressources to counter their specific abilities. And if later they find out, they might be upset that it was you who started with the whole PvP thing.
Conversely, if they were planning for PvP anyway, talking to them about it can't hurt. At least you get the possibility to set standards everyone agrees to (like "no stealing from party members" which is even more important to some players than "no killing").

[Triskavanski]

Well, I don't think I'm wasting anything here. Even if they never do PVP or anything like that, the mobs could potentially be nasty too cause we're going to be doing a lot of planes hopping apparently. I'd be a little more inclined to agree if I was doing things like taking Ranger with favored enemy "Pixies".

And right now I've got the start of a pretty super tough character, I just don't know where to go from here.

Anyway I could abuse a high Con score? I know the Tomb of battle has things like the sword sage and warblade that use the diamond style, which using concentration, which uses con for various things like attacking or countering.

Champion could also be good, but it doesn't get the diamond style for some reason. Warlock/Hexblade, the story behind the character would be someone who got some power or something from like a demon or what not, but is quickly becoming more and more resistant to the divine powers of the demon, eventually working towards destroying the demon and consuming its power.

The character could be some sort of harbinger of doom and destruction, though he's totally not the one doing it. Rather its just going on around him constantly, but he manages to survive it a lot.


EDIT: I'm starting to think that I should go Hex 3/Warblade 17, Dunno what other PRCs to pick up if any.

[Triskavanski]

Here's the build so far

Str 15, Dex 14 Con 16, Int 15 Wis 10, Cha 14

Level 01: Warblade, Feats - Endurance, Stead Fast Determination, Iron will - Flaw: ??? - Manuvers - Sapphire Nightmare blade, Steel Wind, Moment of the Perfect Mind - Stances - Punishing Strike
Level 02: Hexblade
Level 03: Hexblade - Feat Indomitable Soul
Level 04: Hexblade
Level 05: Warblade - Maneuver Wall of Blades (I think the 3 levels of hexblade give me a +1 to initiator level)


And next i need to come up with a good backstory on the character, cause there is a lot going on here too. Basically we are people who were to be some sort of champions to go out and get artifacts and stuff of the other planes.

My guy would be like, the rabbit in a den full of lions, but like a really baddass rabbit. I'm kinda thinking of getting Enduring life and the one that lets me use my will to shunt negative levels off me as a standard action. But If do that I would like to know if there any crazy thing out there I could use where I amplify my abilities but at the cost of a negative level or something.

Is there any way to pick up fasthealing/regeneration?

[Theodred theOld]

3 words: be a beguiler. *drops the mic

[Vizzerdrix]

3 words: be a beguiler. *drops the mic

Dear lord how would that protect him? Half the party is undead.

Unless you'r refering to the creature called a beguiler. Still don't see how it'd help though.

If you need to survive straight up damage, the best I can come up with is as follows. Takes a lot of feat at the beginning but makes you quite capable of surviving.
Fighter1- Improved Toughness (prereq feat)
Human- Troll blooded
Flaw1-Least Aberant Dragonmark (prereq feat) (take shield)
Flaw2-Mark of madness (prereq feat)(If you can bump the save you may be able to stop someone for a round or two)
HD1-Mark of Xoriat (DR 5 vs. something no one in the party is going to have)
In the end, you've looking at a total +1HP/HD, Regeneration-1, +4 shield AC, DR 5/byeshk, and a casting of lesser confusion per day. The cost is fatigue in direct sunlight, and a set of tats that might make some people look at you funny.

EDIT: Ah. Banned books. this will not fly, then. You could always take the shadow (or was it dark?) template for hide in plane sight. They can't kill what they can't find, after all.

[Malroth]

wizard/beguiler/Ultimate Magus letting Ultimate magus double boost wizard progression via Uncanny forethought

[Twilightwyrm]

Here's the thing: If PvP is truly something you want to avoid, your best strategy is going to be being helpful enough that your party feels as though you are a benefit to them, while having spells and effects that act as a powerful deterrent to them attacking you. To this end, I would try something like this:

Half-Elf Necropolitan Bard 5
Feats:
1st- Improved Initiative
3rd- Song of the Heart
6th*- Requiem

You will want at least 7th level in Bard at least, probably 8th. Along the way, to consider picking up a level of Marshal at some point in order to get Cha to Initiative (not to mention your various stealthy skills), perhaps a level of Mindbender for 100ft Telepathy as well, but from 10th level proceed into Sublime Chord, then Virtuoso or whatever other full spell-casting progression prestige class you can find to progress Sublime Chord casting, netting you spells from the Sorcerer spell list. If you can find a way to pick up Dragonfire Inspiration along the way, do so.
You are now immune to sleep, poison, and sneak attack with a fairly good Will save in case the Pixi attempts a Memory Loss effect. You are going to take the 1st level Half-Elf Bard Substitution level to swap the fairly worthless Countersong for Calm Emotions. This lets you use Calm Emotions with a DC equal to a Diplomacy roll (a piece of cake for a Half-Elf Bard to buff). This renders everyone within the effected area unable to take any offensive action, which you can activate for the use of one Bardic music. You take Requiem at 6th, ostensibly so you can now help both yourself, and any of your undead compatriots with your Inspire Courage and other Bardic Music Buff effects, but this serves the duel role of now allowing you to effect them with the likes of Suggestion and your Calm Emotions effect, in case they turn on you. In addition to specializing in Disguise and Diplomacy, you are going to focus on buffs and battlefield control, that will just so happen to function as potent defenses if they turn on you. And since you are a Bard, once you've escaped their ill-advised attempt at PvP, you can provide a compelling counter-point to their brilliant idea of attacking you in the form of an angry pitchfork and torch wielding mob, that is now somehow mysteriously buffed with the same effects you used to be providing to them. If they persist, you've seen enough of their heinous deeds (including proof that they massacred an entirely innocent group of pitchfork and torch wielding townsfolk) that you could use to first set the town guard on them, followed with local inquisitors and bounty hunters if you wish. You are a Bard with an aforementioned super high bonus in Diplomacy and Disguise, this kind of thing is what you do! Indeed, before they ever consider turning on you, feel free to tempt them with the compelling argument that if they would just work with you, you could use these powers of persuasion to aid their goals, aid them in their ascent to power and wealth. In this way, much like a bard in a good party, you are the glue that holds the party together, through your force of charisma and iron grip on the strings of manipulation, connections and power that you provide, power you convince them to rely on more and more. Let them feel like great assassins, winged bony terrors, or fearsome necromancers; you are the one setting up their increasingly profitable contracts, finding them supplied of corpses and dark lore, and spreading fearsome tales and propaganda to increase their infamy. Until the moment their greed gets the better of them, and they even dare challenge one of your decisions, let alone plot their murder, they realize that if they ever move against you not only would their attempts to so much as strike you without your consent fail, but the very foundations of their power would fall away. Indeed, become so critical to their efforts that they dare not even turn on each other (at least without your approval), lest you restrict or withdraw your support in opposition. You go from friendly undead minstrel to the Godfather to which the boogyman answers. Only appropriate for the discerning evil bard.

[Immabozo]

DMM persist shenanigans, with nightsticks! Be a better fighter, than the fighter, better DPS than the rogue, better SoD than the assassin!

[Triskavanski]

wizard/beguiler/Ultimate Magus letting Ultimate magus double boost wizard progression via Uncanny forethought

I don't understand this one, can you explain how the ultimate magus double boosts wizard progression?


And what is DMM Persist?

Also, is there anything like Divine Denial but for Arcane? or at least something comparable?

[Doctor Despair]

The easiest method might be to avoid the situation all together; play a bard, pump diplomacy and bluff. Be a character that the evil characters will never want to kill, and if you need to do something that is not in their interests, use your bluff to fenangle out of the situation. Now, if you are dealing with evil players who will, out of character, resent you going around them and decide to kill your character, then your issue isn't evil characters and requires a whole different solution.

[LTwerewolf]

Best advice in dealing with an evil party member: make it so they don't want to kill you. Build won't matter, because you're winning the fight by making it not happen. Make them either like you or need you or preferably both.

[Triskavanski]

Yeah, I don't think it would be like that. Even so, the path I'm heading down is pretty badass.

At level 6, with Divine Denial, I've got the ability to resist every divine spell out there, and my will saves won't be slouching.

I'm looking at something like 6 base will. + 3 from con, +2 from Iron will +2 from Arcane Resistance, +2 from Divine Defiance, netting me something like 15 will saves vs divine spells. And if its mind effecting, I get to roll twice. And if I really think I'll fail and don't wanna, I could use moment of the Perfect mind to replace that all with my concentration checks.

Now the question i have though is I've got 3 levels I could work with and still be able to get 9th level manuvers before epic levels. What should I go with? A human Paragon would give me another feat, more class skills (Which we're using Pathfinders skill point system), and a +2 to any one stat.

Taking average hp right now I'm at 52 hp. (15+9+9+9+10) But my AC is pretty bad. I don't lose my dex mod due to uncanny all that easily, and I did put ranks into acrobatics specifically to get get the +1/2 to fighting defensively/total defense. I could slip into Mirthral Breastplate possibly and i won't lose access to Uncanny.

[8BitNinja]

Play/Multiclass as a Paladin, you get protection from evil and chaos at first level, you can use holy swords, which do 2d6 extra damage to evil and undead, turn undead, cure wounds, heavy armor and the Mark of Justice, which will make them play nice

If you get into combat with all of them at once, get down on your knees before it starts, because youu are going to need lots of spells to keep you alive

DISCLAIMER: 8BitNinja does not condone the idea of everyone being a paladin, because that would suck

ANOTHER DISCLAIMER: Even I don't play pally all the time

[Triskavanski]

Something a friend of mine brought up, even if the players are all on board and know that they shouldn't pvp.. that doesn't mean Pvp won't happen.

In pathfinder we had a game where the evil sorcerer of ours got mind controlled. The result was nearly a TPK because it never was 'out of character' for the greed driven sorcerer trying to kill the party with all his fireballs so he can get all teh loot for himself.

That is a hidden danger of having evil dudes in a party.


However I'm pretty confident in my ability to not get mindcontrolled myself, and be able to even defend myself long enough to escape if any of my companions where. Doesn't mean I can't get better though. There is always ways to be better. But is it worth it?

[8BitNinja]

Something a friend of mine brought up, even if the players are all on board and know that they shouldn't pvp.. that doesn't mean Pvp won't happen.

In pathfinder we had a game where the evil sorcerer of ours got mind controlled. The result was nearly a TPK because it never was 'out of character' for the greed driven sorcerer trying to kill the party with all his fireballs so he can get all teh loot for himself.

That is a hidden danger of having evil dudes in a party.

He was in ur base, killing ur doods

rocks fall, everyone dies (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocksFallEveryoneDies)

[Triskavanski]

I wonder what the rating is on some of the feats I was looking at here?

Like the ones I've chosen already, the one I'm planning to choose (Divine Denial) and the destiny one (in races of destiny) where you could take a massive laser to the face, taking infinite amount of damage, but some how you manage to survive, just barely, at -9 hp.

I think the Destiny one would be pretty awesome. I'd be like the villain who you threw off the plane, but you lost sight of in the clouds. Guess what! He's back, at your doorstep.

[Immabozo]

And what is DMM Persist?

Divine Metamagic. It allows a divine spellcaster to apply metamagic to their spells and spend turn undead attempt, instead of raising the CL. And there is shenanigans you can do to get more turn undead attempts, like get the item nightsticks, which gives 4 more uses per day just for having it in your backpack (from libris mortis).

[Malroth]

I don't understand this one, can you explain how the ultimate magus double boosts wizard progression?


And what is DMM Persist?

Also, is there anything like Divine Denial but for Arcane? or at least something comparable?

With Uncanny Forethought Wizard can now cast spells spontaneously and since ultimate magus allows you to choose which spontaneous arcane casting class to advance, on the levels on which it advances both your prepared and spontaneous class, both the level advancements from those level can apply to Wizard instead of beguiler.

[Triskavanski]

Well, I don't think My GM will go for the Double Power Wizard thing. DMM probably would be more likely to pass through, but, Divine Denial just seems too good to pass up. (Though it probably doesn't work at all knowing my luck of things I thought were cool)

Cause I'm just imagining Clerics trying to blast me with no-save spells, and I just reject their reality, substituting my own, cackling out with a "You have no power here!" Especially if I get the destiny feats where I can re-roll ones, and survive damage that should kill me outright.

[Immabozo]

Well, I don't think My GM will go for the Double Power Wizard thing. DMM probably would be more likely to pass through, but, Divine Denial just seems too good to pass up. (Though it probably doesn't work at all knowing my luck of things I thought were cool)

Cause I'm just imagining Clerics trying to blast me with no-save spells, and I just reject their reality, substituting my own, cackling out with a "You have no power here!" Especially if I get the destiny feats where I can re-roll ones, and survive damage that should kill me outright.

Gives me an idea. You could be an illusionist that is always invisible with a permanent image that is projected near you that follows your mental commands, who's magic all SEEMS to come from the illusion and either figured out how to make it interact with objects, or make up some crap about wearing a ring for defense that makes you pass through physical objects, so that nothing can touch you. And while you are at it, change your apparent class to another casting type not illusionist. Your illusion magic will extend out of the game and fool your fellow players.

EDIT: as has been said, you cant kill what you cant find, and what is better than not being found, is making everyone think they found you, where you are not. No one looks for what they think they've found

[SirNMN]

I have a game i play on sundays for 3.5, and after a mostly TPK, the game is going to a new group. And, they've all become evil freaks of nature. Except for me. Mind you, we've not stated that there will be PVP, and I don't intend to invoke any. But if there is PVP I want to be ready

We've got a Raptorean Bone Creature fighter. This guy isn't very tactically sound with his play style and tends to make characters mostly for power rather than flavor. Overall I'm not too terribly worried about him, even though he's going to resist most phsyical attacks and fly around a lot with his foot bow.

Then we have a Necropolotin Deathmaster, this guy scares me a bit more. Only because he's got magic, and an army of undead. I'd likely see him coming first though.

then there is a Drow Rogue/Assassin. Playwise, I don't entirely see this guy starting up the combat, but he'd be a bit hard to deal with when he starts using poisons and magic that could result in a quick insta kill.

The one I'm most scared of is the Pixie Fighter/Sorcerer. Particularly the arrows and constant invisibility. The arrows being unlimited, ex, and very high on saves for Will/Fort lead to me being more afraid of this guy, especially since I don't know him well.



So, what I want to do is survive if any of these guys were to suddenly turn on me, and be able to take them down or escape. Again, I'm not looking to start PVP and I don't know if any of them are gonna try it. Because I don't like LA/RHD I tend to avoid those races as much as possible, but might be willing to take a little dip.

The GM has a random number of books banned, mostly things from specific campaign worlds, because of "Shenanigans"

Any ideas on something that could be fun, and somewhat reliable?

If he allow a the web enhancement play a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobald Str 6 dex 16 Con 14 in 19 wis 18 cha 18. 1 level of sorcerer take the stalwart sorcerer varatint CA have taken the draconic Rite of Passage RotD Page 43. Take the Draconic Reservoir feat at third or sixth level. At level 6 undergo Greater Draconic Rite of Passage gain extra level of sorcerer for 1 feat and 4 hit points for the rest go specialist or domain wizard and prestige into ULTIMATE MAGUS full casting progression for sorcerer 7/10 for wizard become a lich win everything

[Triskavanski]

Races of the Dragon are out, cause he doesn't want one of the players making a dragon or something.

Yesterday another player joined in as a Anti-Paladin, this player has initiated pvp once before, so I have brought up my concerns with the rest of the group on the subject now.

And I'm finding out that the party's structure has changed.

The Raptorean Bone Creature Fighter Archer (Mouthful!) is trying to go back to his old ways of being a 'flying melee' character. Cause he thinks this time he won't die to arrows with actual flight.

I'm not sure if he is still undead or not though.

The Anti-Pally is going to be doing something with a spiked chain and AoOs


I've been looking for ways to increase my AC next and well, I'm actually kinda disappointed in getting a Mithril Breast Plate over a Mithril Chain Shirt.

4200 vs 1100, I'm paying an extra 3100 just for a +1 to my AC. I could spend 2000 of that for a ring of protection +1 and get a +1 enhancement bonus on my Armor and still have 100gp left over.

Here is the character Sheet
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=653074