More than one bonus action?

[mgshamster]

Is there any way to get more than one bonus action in a round or a turn?

For example, a 17th level rogue (thief) may get two turns in one round, thereby getting two bonus actions in one round (but still one per turn). And I'm still not sure if this is true. Confirmation?

Anything else? Magic items or artifacts, maybe?

[Dalebert]

I'm fairly confident there's nothing. Oddly enough you can get two actions in a turn with Action Surge but I know of nothing that will give extra bonus actions.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I can't think of anything. Haste certainly doesn't do it.

A lot of homebrewers seem to want it, though!

[mgshamster]

It looks like my assessment of the thief is correct. You get one bonus action per turn - but if there's something that lets you take multiple turns per round, then you get one bonus action per turn, allowing for multiple in a round.

Conversely, you only get one reaction per round no matter how many turns you get.

But I haven't seen anything that gives more than one bonus action per turn yet. And I believe the DMG even warns against it, as it can get very powerful.

[SwordChuck]

I hope they never go that way. I actually would have prefered if we didn't have bonus actions at all.

"As part of your action you may..." and you can only do one. This also would allow a lot of things to blend together and we would have less issues with rules. Call them rider abilities and you may have one rider along with your action.

We surely wouldn't have had all those fights in AL about Action Surge giving/not giving the fighter a bonus action... :smallannoyed:

[Theodoxus]

Do you get more than one bonus check at the end of the year (if at all?) Why would you get more than one bonus action in a round?

It's a Bonus, not an addendum or modifier. It's not an Extra... words have meanings, and trying to misrepresent them is a disservice to the ruleset. IMO, of course.

[Dalebert]

It looks like my assessment of the thief is correct. You get one bonus action per turn - but if there's something that lets you take multiple turns per round, then you get one bonus action per turn, allowing for multiple in a round.

I don't think there is anyway to get actually more full turns in a round. Not even Haste does that. It gives you actions and doubles your speed. I think that's a very conscious design decision for balance of the action economy.


Conversely, you only get one reaction per round no matter how many turns you get.

Your one reaction is renewed at the start of your turn so you do, in fact, get one reaction per turn.


I hope they never go that way. I actually would have prefered if we didn't have bonus actions at all.

"As part of your action you may..." and you can only do one. This also would allow a lot of things to blend together and we would have less issues with rules. Call them rider abilities and you may have one rider along with your action.

We surely wouldn't have had all those fights in AL about Action Surge giving/not giving the fighter a bonus action... :smallannoyed:

It just sounds like an argument over words and semantics. A rider instead of a bonus action? But many bonus action don't depend on certain actions. Cunning action doesn't. Shadow monk teleport doesn't. Misty Step doesn't. Healing Word doesn't. These are just meant to be very fast effects that don't prevent you from taking your regular action.

The confusion comes from people just not taking the time to read the new rules and assuming things based on older editions. That you can move, take one action, and sometimes take a bonus action on your turn is clearly explained. If you have that foundation down, the rest isn't that complicated.

[gfishfunk]

I'm fairly confident there's nothing. Oddly enough you can get two actions in a turn with Action Surge but I know of nothing that will give extra bonus actions.

Action Surge also grants an additional Bonus Action, from the text.

[SwordChuck]

It just sounds like an argument over words and semantics. A rider instead of a bonus action? But many bonus action don't depend on certain actions. Cunning action doesn't. Shadow monk teleport doesn't. Misty Step doesn't. Healing Word doesn't. These are just meant to be very fast effects that don't prevent you from taking your regular action.

The confusion comes from people just not taking the time to read the new rules and assuming things based on older editions. That you can move, take one action, and sometimes take a bonus action on your turn is clearly explained. If you have that foundation down, the rest isn't that complicated.

The current system is clunky and has caused/still causes a lot of issues.

When can you use a bonus action, how many do I get when I use action surge, and BA casting spells are some of the biggest arguments I still hear as people don't always read or care about the errata/sage advice.

I prefer a more streamline approach, AL is getting way too annoying recently.

[SwordChuck]

Action Surge also grants an additional Bonus Action, from the text.

It absolutely does not. It gives you an extra action, not an extra turn.

[Dalebert]

I prefer a more streamline approach, AL is getting way too annoying recently.

I guess I'm just not feeling it. This edition seems more streamlined than any other. It's been simplified in many ways, including the actions. The confusion almost always seems to stem from experienced players assuming things based on old rules and not reading the new ones with an open mind.

[mgshamster]

Your one reaction is renewed at the start of your turn so you do, in fact, get one reaction per turn.

You are correct, sir! Thank you for the correction.

[KorvinStarmast]

I note that none of you has cited or quoted the actual rules (page/volume) in this discussion, and so am left no wiser than when I read the first post and wondered at what a lvl 17 Rogue got that was so special. As I am AFB at the moment, I can't cite the written rules ... but to anyone answering this, such citation would be a lot less confusing that what's been posted.

For example, regarding Action Surge (which is not the Rogue issue originally presented) page 25 of the basic rules says very clearly the following:

On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action.
It then tells you that this needs a long or short rest to recharge.

It also clears up the point of having two of them, at Starting at 17th level Fighter

... level, you can use it twice before a rest, but only once on the same turn.gfishfunk and dalebert, not meaning to pick on you, just wanted to spell out how to support a point being made when someone asks "so, how does this work?" (dalebert seems to have read the rules and sort out what they mean).

For mgshamster:

What in the words of the description of 17th level rogue led you to believe that additional bonus actions would, or might, be available?

[Dalebert]

What in the words of the description of 17th level rogue led you to believe that additional bonus actions would be available?

FWIW, I was able to look it up but didn't find what he's talking about. Maybe I missed something.

[SwordChuck]

I guess I'm just not feeling it. This edition seems more streamlined than any other. It's been simplified in many ways, including the actions. The confusion almost always seems to stem from experienced players assuming things based on old rules and not reading the new ones with an open mind.

One or two of the playtests, from what I recall, was more streamlined.

Don't get me wrong, it is much better than 3e, by a fricken mile. But if you are going to streamline the game you complete it.

Right now we have...

Action, Bonus Action, Move (not an action specifically), Use an Item Action (first one free then it becomes an action), Attack Action, Cast a Spell Action, Ability Checks, Contests, and so much more...

Could have been...

Action: List of actions
Rider: Do this when you perform an action or when you move, have a list
Move (not a real action)

Cast a spell action and weapon attack could have just been an action. Have everything work off effects and not the type of action you are taking.

So things will be a rider of "hit with a melee weapon" and not "when you make a melee weapon attack".

5.5e will probabaly be more streamlined than 5e, maybe not what I'm proposing but more streamlined easily.

[KorvinStarmast]

FWIW, I was able to look it up but didn't find what he's talking about. Maybe I missed something.I think this is it.

Thief’s Reflexes (page 28 basic rules)
When you reach 17th level, you have become adept at laying ambushes and quickly escaping danger. You can take two turns during the first round of any combat. You take your first turn at your normal initiative and your second turn at your initiative minus 10. You can’t use this feature when you are surprised.

I can also see how the language is a bit confusing, since it uses the term "turn" and I read that as "a complete turn extra" once per combat encounter. Here is how I think it works, but I'd be happy to see a tweet or other language that shows me I am not seeing it correctly.

Each "turn" the thief takes is just like a complete turn:
Action, Bonus Action, Move (not an action specifically), Use an Item Action (Thank you , Chuck)

Other players and monsters then have turns, until his turn at -10 arrives, and then the rogue does it again.

Each turn is a thing in itself, and thus the thief does NOT get two actions in the first turn. That makes this quite different from action surge.

But that only happens once curing a combat encounter.

If his first initiative roll was 15, he'd have a complete turn at 15 and at 5.
If his first initiative roll was 9, he'd have a complete turn at 9 and then after anyone and everyone else has completed their turn.

His next turn (in round 2) is at 15
His next turn (in round 3) is at 15

and so on.

I think this is what makes this a special skill warranting 17th level of specialness.

Does that make sense?

This means that a 17th through 2th thief, in only the first round, would have
Two actions
Two bonus actions
Two reactions
Two use an item

But only one of each of the above in either of the two turns he gets in that first round ... when everyone else gets just one of each (absent an action surge by a fighter ...)

[HoarsHalberd]

One or two of the playtests, from what I recall, was more streamlined.

Don't get me wrong, it is much better than 3e, by a fricken mile. But if you are going to streamline the game you complete it.

Right now we have...

Action, Bonus Action, Move (not an action specifically), Use an Item Action (first one free then it becomes an action), Attack Action, Cast a Spell Action, Ability Checks, Contests, and so much more...

Could have been...

Action: List of actions
Rider: Do this when you perform an action or when you move, have a list
Move (not a real action)

Cast a spell action and weapon attack could have just been an action. Have everything work off effects and not the type of action you are taking.

So things will be a rider of "hit with a melee weapon" and not "when you make a melee weapon attack".

5.5e will probabaly be more streamlined than 5e, maybe not what I'm proposing but more streamlined easily.

"Hit with a melee weapon" A) rules out unarmed attacks and B) severely weakens any martial using whatever rider that would be as you no longer are able to reliably use the ability. Melee weapon attack is almost the simplest it can be to denote attacking in melee without the use of a spell. Only thing that could be possibly been made clearer is "melee martial attack" to denote weapons, natural weapons and unarmed attacks, but would require a definition somewhere in the book.

[gfishfunk]

gfishfunk and dalebert, not meaning to pick on you, just wanted to spell out how to support a point being made when someone asks "so, how does this work?"

I need to look up something in the book and cannot right now. I made an assertion without the text in front of me, so now I need to actually read the book to figure out if I was correct or not. I will do so later today.

[KorvinStarmast]

I need to look up something in the book and cannot right now. I made an assertion without the text in front of me, so now I need to actually read the book to figure out if I was correct or not. I will do so later today. It's all good. While you are at it, since I was using a pdf of basic rules, could you take a look at the PBH's entry on "Thief's Reflexes" and see if I presented a rational treatment of that?

[gfishfunk]

It's all good. While you are at it, since I was using a pdf of basic rules, could you take a look at the PBH's entry on "Thief's Reflexes" and see if I presented a rational treatment of that?

Yes--because I think I may have confused Action Surge with something in the Rogue's ability tree.

[HoarsHalberd]

I would like to point out that the use an item action is very different to the free item interaction. Use an item is for things like chugging a potion. Free item interactions are for drawing/sheathing a weapon, kicking aside a weapon on the floor.

[SwordChuck]

I would like to point out that the use an item action is very different to the free item interaction. Use an item is for things like chugging a potion. Free item interactions are for drawing/sheathing a weapon, kicking aside a weapon on the floor.

Not really. They are the same thing. You get one for free and then the next one is an action to perform. If you are a Rogue you can use an item as a bonus action. But they are one in the same.

Use an Object
You normally interact with an object while doing
something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack. When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn.

Interacting with Objects Around You
Here are a few examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action:
• draw or sheathe a sword
• open or close a door
• withdraw a potion from your backpack
• pick up a dropped axe
• take a bauble from a table
• remove a ring from your finger
• stuff some food into your mouth
• plant a banner in the ground
• fish a few coins from your belt pouch
• drink all the ale in a flagon
• throw a lever or a switch
• pull a torch from a sconce
• take a book from a shelf you can reach
• extinguish a small flame
• don a mask
• pull the hood of your cloak up and over your head
• put your ear to a door
• kick a small stone
• turn a key in a lock
• tap the floor with a 10-foot pole
• hand an item to another character

To shut and then lock a door you would use a free "use an item action" to shut the door and then use your action (or rogue bonus action) "use an item action" to turn the lock. It's weird and clunky and they could have easily fixed this.

Also, chugging a potion isn't a "use an item action" it is a magic item and requires a different action. The Rogue can't use fast hands to chug a potion because of this.

This is one of my problems with 5e, they didn't streamline this.

[HoarsHalberd]

Not really. They are the same thing. You get one for free and then the next one is an action to perform. If you are a Rogue you can use an item as a bonus action. But they are one in the same.

Use an Object
You normally interact with an object while doing
something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack. When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn.

Interacting with Objects Around You
Here are a few examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action:
• draw or sheathe a sword
• open or close a door
• withdraw a potion from your backpack
• pick up a dropped axe
• take a bauble from a table
• remove a ring from your finger
• stuff some food into your mouth
• plant a banner in the ground
• fish a few coins from your belt pouch
• drink all the ale in a flagon
• throw a lever or a switch
• pull a torch from a sconce
• take a book from a shelf you can reach
• extinguish a small flame
• don a mask
• pull the hood of your cloak up and over your head
• put your ear to a door
• kick a small stone
• turn a key in a lock
• tap the floor with a 10-foot pole
• hand an item to another character

To shut and then lock a door you would use a free "use an item action" to shut the door and then use your action (or rogue bonus action) "use an item action" to turn the lock. It's weird and clunky and they could have easily fixed this.

Also, chugging a potion isn't a "use an item action" it is a magic item and requires a different action. The Rogue can't use fast hands to chug a potion because of this.

This is one of my problems with 5e, they didn't streamline this.

Potion was a poor example but they aren't the same thing, here are the paraphrased PHB explanation: "If an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also used if you want to interact with more than one item in a turn." (Overall intent is kept, but I'd advise reading it yourself for specifics.) And you don't get a free item interaction at all times, it is only used when it makes sense as part of an action or bonus action. "The player normally interacts with an object while doing something else," is a slightly paraphrased version of the only place to mention the free item interaction. Essentially doing something like grabbing a door and slamming it shut would require an action, but kicking it open whilst you walk through wouldn't. It's pretty streamlined when you remember it's basically handing the GM the reigns to go: "That won't require an action but this will." It's again, the best way of streamlining it without making it too broadly worded.

[SwordChuck]

Potion was a poor example but they aren't the same thing, here are the paraphrased PHB explanation: "If an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also used if you want to interact with more than one item in a turn." (Overall intent is kept, but I'd advise reading it yourself for specifics.) And you don't get a free item interaction at all times, it is only used when it makes sense as part of an action or bonus action. "The player normally interacts with an object while doing something else," is a slightly paraphrased version of the only place to mention the free item interaction. Essentially doing something like grabbing a door and slamming it shut would require an action, but kicking it open whilst you walk through wouldn't. It's pretty streamlined when you remember it's basically handing the GM the reigns to go: "That won't require an action but this will." It's again, the best way of streamlining it without making it too broadly worded.

I just quoted the basic rules, not sure why you did too... Just read my previous reaponse of you still have any questions.

[HoarsHalberd]

I just quoted the basic rules, not sure why you did too... Just read my previous reaponse of you still have any questions.

No, you aren't grasping it. There are actions that require the use an item action in and of itself. That cannot be accomplished during your movement or action. That's what the whole first half of the use an item interaction is trying to explain.

"When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn."

[Submortimer]

I don't know why this is all so hard to parse for people.

On your turn, you have 4 things you can do:
- Action
- Bonus action
- Move
- Interaction with an object (not Use an Object, that's an Action)

That's it.

What you get to DO with each of those things is highly varied, but I've yet to find an instance in the PHB where it's THIS hard to figure out what you can do each turn.

Action surge? You get an extra Action on your turn, nothing else. Fast hand? You can replace your Bonus action with a second Use and Object.

It's really quite simple.

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't know why this is all so hard to On your turn, you have 4 things you can do:
- Action
- Bonus action
- Use an object
- Move

Do you agree with my breakdown of the 17th level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20201209&postcount=16)Rogue "Thief's Reflexes" or not?

I think what got the OP a bit confused was that rounds and turns are different things, and he many have mixed them up in trying to see how to apply that to a standard combat turn.

[mgshamster]

I note that none of you has cited or quoted the actual rules (page/volume) in this discussion, and so am left no wiser than when I read the first post and wondered at what a lvl 17 Rogue got that was so special. As I am AFB at the moment, I can't cite the written rules ... but to anyone answering this, such citation would be a lot less confusing that what's been posted.

For example, regarding Action Surge (which is not the Rogue issue originally presented) page 25 of the basic rules says very clearly the following:

It then tells you that this needs a long or short rest to recharge.

It also clears up the point of having two of them, at Starting at 17th level Fighter
gfishfunk and dalebert, not meaning to pick on you, just wanted to spell out how to support a point being made when someone asks "so, how does this work?" (dalebert seems to have read the rules and sort out what they mean).

For mgshamster:

What in the words of the description of 17th level rogue led you to believe that additional bonus actions would, or might, be available?

My apologies!

The rogue (thief archetype) gains thief reflexes on page 97 of the PHB. The second sentence says "You can take two turns on the first round of any combat." Then it has some conditions.

Bonus Actions are described on Page 189. Reactions on page 190 of the PHB.

Likewise, the definitions of Turn and Round are on page 189 under The Order of Combat.

[KorvinStarmast]

My apologies!
Did you find my attempt at parsing how it works (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20201209&postcount=16)sensible, or is it still unclear or confusing?

I found the Thief's Reflexes in the basic rules. I don't think that changed when the PHB was published, but I'll check when I have the books in front of me.

[HoarsHalberd]

I don't know why this is all so hard to parse for people.

On your turn, you have 4 things you can do:
- Action
- Bonus action
- Use an object
- Move

That's it.

What you get to DO with each of those things is highly varied, but I've yet to find an instance in the PHB where it's THIS hard to figure out what you can do each turn.

Action surge? You get an extra Action on your turn, nothing else. Fast hand? You can replace your Bonus action with a second Use and Object.

It's really quite simple.

You can't Use an Object for free. You can use certain objects as part of a suitable action, bonus action or move, and can only do this once. But the Use an Object action specifically says it is capable of doing things that free item interactions cannot.

[Submortimer]

Did you find my attempt at parsing how it works (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20201209&postcount=16)sensible, or is it still unclear or confusing?

I found the Thief's Reflexes in the basic rules. I don't think that changed when the PHB was published, but I'll check when I have the books in front of me.

In this case, yes, you get two of each thing. You are taking two full turns, at different initiatives.

[Submortimer]

Did you find my attempt at parsing how it works (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20201209&postcount=16)sensible, or is it still unclear or confusing?

I found the Thief's Reflexes in the basic rules. I don't think that changed when the PHB was published, but I'll check when I have the books in front of me.

In this case, yes, you get two of each thing. You are taking two full turns, at different initiatives.

[DanyBallon]

One or two of the playtests, from what I recall, was more streamlined.

Don't get me wrong, it is much better than 3e, by a fricken mile. But if you are going to streamline the game you complete it.

Right now we have...

Action, Bonus Action, Move (not an action specifically), Use an Item Action (first one free then it becomes an action), Attack Action, Cast a Spell Action, Ability Checks, Contests, and so much more...

Could have been...

Action: List of actions
Rider: Do this when you perform an action or when you move, have a list
Move (not a real action)

Cast a spell action and weapon attack could have just been an action. Have everything work off effects and not the type of action you are taking.

So things will be a rider of "hit with a melee weapon" and not "when you make a melee weapon attack".

5.5e will probabaly be more streamlined than 5e, maybe not what I'm proposing but more streamlined easily.

PHB p. 189 indicate what your turn is:
- Move (further detailed under Movement and Position)
- Take one action (most common actions are described under Actions in Combat)

On p.192 of PHB, the following are listed as Actions in Combat:
- Attack
- Cast a spell
- Dash
- Disengage
- Dodge
- Help
- Hide
- Ready
- Search
- Use an object

Then they explain that certain class feature or spell let you take a bonus action and that you can take only one bonus action on your turn.

Under other activity on your turn, it is said that you can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free. Interacting with a second object you need to use your action (by taking the Use an object action)

Furthermore, it is said that special abilities, spells and situation let you take a special action called a reaction. You cannot take an other reaction until the start of your next turn.

So that's pretty straight forward, you can move and take one action during your turn, some abilities or spell let you take a bonus action in addition, and specific trigger may let you have a reaction. Just to be clear, you don't get a bonus action and/or a reaction every turn, you get them under specific circumstances, and when you get one and/or the other, you only get it once on your turn.

And to answer OP question, as far as we know Thief's Reflex is the only way to have more than one turn in a round, hence having the possibility for more than one bonus action per round. UA Ranger Ambuscade would allow the same if it become official.

[mgshamster]

Did you find my attempt at parsing how it works (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20201209&postcount=16)sensible, or is it still unclear or confusing?

I found the Thief's Reflexes in the basic rules. I don't think that changed when the PHB was published, but I'll check when I have the books in front of me.

Yes, I found your understanding to be the same as mine and sensible.

[mgshamster]

In case anyone is curious, this topic came up because I was conversing with someone who claimed 5e was utterly broken and way too easy to min/max and create broken characters. They did this by "abusing bonus actions."

I tried to claim that there was only one bonus action per round (I was wrong in the single instance of the thief, and it's still one per turn), but they were insistent. My own search of the PHB and DMG didn't reveal anything, so I came to the forums to see if I really was wrong.

Thanks for all your help!

[gfishfunk]

It absolutely does not. It gives you an extra action, not an extra turn.

The text reads something along the lines of "this action occurs in addition to your normal action and a possible bonus action." At best this is poorly worded. I should send Wizards of the Coast a copy of Strunk and White (https://faculty.washington.edu/heagerty/Courses/b572/public/StrunkWhite.pdf).

I guess I really need to diagram every sentence rather than just read it. Upon first viewing, I thought is said that it also allowed a bonus action.


It's all good. While you are at it, since I was using a pdf of basic rules, could you take a look at the PBH's entry on "Thief's Reflexes" and see if I presented a rational treatment of that?

You present a rational treatment of Thief's Reflexes.

[SwordChuck]

The text reads something along the lines of "this action occurs in addition to your normal action and a possible bonus action." At best this is poorly worded. I should send Wizards of the Coast a copy of Strunk and White (https://faculty.washington.edu/heagerty/Courses/b572/public/StrunkWhite.pdf).

I guess I really need to diagram every sentence rather than just read it. Upon first viewing, I thought is said that it also allowed a bonus action.



You present a rational treatment of Thief's Reflexes.

It isn't even worded poorly. I've gotten on WotC cas a lot (a looooooooot) for poor wording and bad editing but this feature isn't one of the problems. Sometimes people read stuff wrong, it happens. But this isn't one of the times that a feature was poorly written.

"Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action."

It's a longer sentence than it needs to be, maybe, but it is very specific. It tells you that you get one additional action in addition to what you already can do.

It seems that the biggest issue with this ability is that people exchange the term "action" with "turn" or they stop reading at "additional" and start back up with "action and possible bonus action".

[DanyBallon]

It isn't even worded poorly. I've gotten on WotC cas a lot (a looooooooot) for poor wording and bad editing but this feature isn't one of the problems. Sometimes people read stuff wrong, it happens. But this isn't one of the times that a feature was poorly written.

"Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action."

It's a longer sentence than it needs to be, maybe, but it is very specific. It tells you that you get one additional action in addition to what you already can do.

It seems that the biggest issue with this ability is that people exchange the term "action" with "turn" or they stop reading at "additional" and start back up with "action and possible bonus action".

It doesn't help either that some poeple assume that you automatically have a bonus action every turn. But you don't, a bonus action possible only something specific allows it.

While reading Action surge, with this in mind the wording makes much more sense. :smallsmile:

[Officer Joy]

It doesn't help either that some poeple assume that you automatically have a bonus action every turn. But you don't, a bonus action possible only something specific allows it.

Yeah I don't understand that, If I'm a Clerc and have the spell healing word, I can't cast it?
What sort of things do give bonus actions?

[mgshamster]

Yeah I don't understand that, If I'm a Clerc and have the spell healing word, I can't cast it?
What sort of things do give bonus actions?

Yes. That spell is something that grants a bonus action.

I liken it to a swift action in 3.X. You don't use a swift action every round, you only use them when you have an ability that is used as a swift action.

Similarly, you don't just use a bonus action every round, only when you have an ability, spell, or something else that uses a bonus action.

Relevant text: "You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action." Page 189 of PHB.

[DanyBallon]

Yeah I don't understand that, If I'm a Clerc and have the spell healing word, I can't cast it?
What sort of things do give bonus actions?

Two weapon fighting allow you to use a bonus action, Rogues Cunning Action let them use a bonus action, Fighters Second Wind let you use a bonus action, spells with a casting time of a bonus action let you use a bonus action (it doesn't count as the Cast a spell action, but the energy requiered limits you to Cantrip if decide to use you action to cast a spell).

The game as plenty of abilities that let you use a bonus action, but it's alway written when you can.

[mgshamster]

Two weapon fighting allow you to use a bonus action, Rogues Cunning Action let them use a bonus action, Fighters Second Wind let you use a bonus action, spells with a casting time of a bonus action let you use a bonus action (it doesn't count as the Cast a spell action, but the energy requiered limits you to Cantrip if decide to use you action to cast a spell).

The game as plenty of abilities that let you use a bonus action, but it's alway written when you can.

I think the confusion arose because he thought you needed an ability that said, "You gain a bonus action!" And then he could use that bonus action to do things like cast a spell with a casting time of 1 Bonus Action. Which is not correct, but an understandable bit of confusion.

[ThermalSlapShot]

PHB p. 189 indicate what your turn is:
- Move (further detailed under Movement and Position)
- Take one action (most common actions are described under Actions in Combat)

On p.192 of PHB, the following are listed as Actions in Combat:
- Attack
- Cast a spell
- Dash
- Disengage
- Dodge
- Help
- Hide
- Ready
- Search
- Use an object

Then they explain that certain class feature or spell let you take a bonus action and that you can take only one bonus action on your turn.

Under other activity on your turn, it is said that you can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free. Interacting with a second object you need to use your action (by taking the Use an object action)

Furthermore, it is said that special abilities, spells and situation let you take a special action called a reaction. You cannot take an other reaction until the start of your next turn.

So that's pretty straight forward, you can move and take one action during your turn, some abilities or spell let you take a bonus action in addition, and specific trigger may let you have a reaction. Just to be clear, you don't get a bonus action and/or a reaction every turn, you get them under specific circumstances, and when you get one and/or the other, you only get it once on your turn.

And to answer OP question, as far as we know Thief's Reflex is the only way to have more than one turn in a round, hence having the possibility for more than one bonus action per round. UA Ranger Ambuscade would allow the same if it become official.

Don't forget though, the attack action breaks down further.

Weapon Attack, Ranged Weapon Attack, Melee Weapon Attack, Non-Weapon Attack, Unarmed Strike Attack, and Improvised Weapon Attack. These are all different things and yeah, it matters because the devs decided it should matter.

[Desamir]

Don't forget, you can make a ranged weapon attack with a melee weapon, a melee weapon attack with a ranged weapon, and a weapon attack with an unarmed strike despite the fact that it doesn't count as a weapon.

It's like they decided to use natural language for everything that needed to be clearly written, and gamey jargon for everything that needed to be intuitive.

[MeeposFire]

Two weapon fighting allow you to use a bonus action, Rogues Cunning Action let them use a bonus action, Fighters Second Wind let you use a bonus action, spells with a casting time of a bonus action let you use a bonus action (it doesn't count as the Cast a spell action, but the energy requiered limits you to Cantrip if decide to use you action to cast a spell).

The game as plenty of abilities that let you use a bonus action, but it's alway written when you can.

Honestly it is a chicken and an egg sort of deal though in this case we do technically know which comes first (in this case you need something that calls for a bonus action to use a bonus action). I call it a chicken or egg situation because one way you have two weapons so then you can choose to utilize that second weapon for two weapon fighting using your bonus action however it is not that different if you always had the bonus action but it could be only used for things that are designated for bonus action. Effectively it makes no difference assuming you wrote the abilities to work the same.

IN this case the book does say that you do not have a bonus action without having something saying you could use one.

[Officer Joy]

I think the confusion arose because he thought you needed an ability that said, "You gain a bonus action!" And then he could use that bonus action to do things like cast a spell with a casting time of 1 Bonus Action. Which is not correct, but an understandable bit of confusion.

Yes that's what happened. I know how to play it now (we were doing it correct anyway).
But how is that different than, you can take one "bonus action" per turn (not a bonus "action"). But you need a use that uses a "bonus action" too use it.

EDIT; what MeeposFire said

[MeeposFire]

Yes that's what happened. I know how to play it now (we were doing it correct anyway).
But how is that different than, you can take one "bonus action" per turn (not a bonus "action"). But you need a use that uses a "bonus action" too use it.

EDIT; what MeeposFire said

Dude Darkwing Duck you totally made my day!

Yea I am having trouble thinking of a situation where these two ways of putting bonus actions in the game would lead to different outcomes.

[DanyBallon]

Dude Darkwing Duck you totally made my day!

Yea I am having trouble thinking of a situation where these two ways of putting bonus actions in the game would lead to different outcomes.

Action Surge could be described as a bonus "action" as it give you a second action you can take after your regular action.

As for the chicken/egg problem, I think they wrote it that way so players would change their mindset they had from previous editions.
Not that is it working, but that's another topic :smallbiggrin: