How do you guys handle dragging allies?

[stenver]

Currently, so far, I have allowed people to move allies on their turn by moving at half speed. This, however, brings some complications.

1. When enemy casts something like "cloudkill", then allies simply drag them out. Not much I can do against that, except have enemies use the same tactic. The ridiculous part if somebody takes dash action and pulls 3 allies out of the harms way, almost completely negating the harmful effects.

2. When you drag ally out of reach, I have allowed enemy have OA.

3. When some VIP is dragged by multiple allies in a row, he can move up to incredible speeds.

So whats your solution to the problem that sometimes you just want to drag your ally

[WickerNipple]

In order to drag someone, by the rules, you would have to Grapple them first.

Doing it by the rules should solve any action economy concerns you might have.

[GAA]

In order to drag someone, by the rules, you would have to Grapple them first.

Doing it by the rules should solve any action economy concerns you might have.

If they are resisting maybe? But otherwise they are an object and should be freely movable like an object is.

[SwordChuck]

In order to drag someone, by the rules, you would have to Grapple them first.

Doing it by the rules should solve any action economy concerns you might have.

And the other player doesn't resist being grabbed by an ally, why would it take an action to grab them?

As a DM I would file "grabbing someone who isn't resisting" the same as grabbing an item. So it is either a free action (if they haven't used an item that turn), Bonus Action (rogue), or action (if they already used an item that turn).

You can drag them at half speed, not because they are resisting hit because it is clumsy.

[WickerNipple]

And the other player doesn't resist being grabbed by an ally, why would it take an action to grab them?

As a DM I would file "grabbing someone who isn't resisting" the same as grabbing an item. So it is either a free action (if they haven't used an item that turn), Bonus Action (rogue), or action (if they already used an item that turn).

You can drag them at half speed, not because they are resisting hit because it is clumsy.

You're welcome to house rule it - but nothing in the grappling rules says anything about it being less of an action if they're not resisting.

And making that change creates the problems OP is having. I don't see any reason to change it - especially since "Other Activity On Your Turn" specifically says the DM might require you to use an action. People aren't objects: for example, if you've ever tried to drag a drowning person out of the water it ain't some casual act.

[SwordChuck]

You're welcome to house rule it - but nothing in the grappling rules says anything about it being less of an action if they're not resisting.

And making that change creates the problems OP is having. I don't see any reason to change it.

The rules are about combat, there are no rules about grabbing an ally.

Unless ally to ally interaction is now considered combat?

Contests also require two (or more) to be oposing each other.

[ruy343]

The following isn't RAW, which may have been what you're looking for. If so, I apologize. However, here's how I would look at it:

1: Require that the grabbing of a friendly character be that character's "world interaction" (typically used to draw swords, open doors, etc.), or their action, depending on circumstances (if the character is unwilling to move, dominated, or other similar circumstances). That would mean that they could only move one friendly per turn (or two, if they spend their action too).

2: Typically, pushed/shoved/grapple-dragged creatures are unaffected by opportunity attacks when moving against their will. One could argue that the same logic applies to the creature being moved. However, if your players are breaking the game by avoiding opportunity attacks that way, perhaps make the character spend a reaction to negate the opportunity attack when pulled by a friendly creature. That way, there's still a cost, and an ally who's helping constructively, but at least they can't opportunity attack/shield spell back.

3: This is allowed in the rules as they stand, and I can't think of a clever way to fix that. Sorry

[WickerNipple]

The rules are about combat, there are no rules about grabbing an ally.

Unless ally to ally interaction is now considered combat?

Contests also require two (or more) to be oposing each other.

It just says 'creature' for grapple, which everywhere else in the book means both allies and enemies.

I'd certainly hand wave the contest aspect if they weren't resisting.

[Finieous]

For something like cloud kill, I'd just rule that they make their save when an ally begins to drag them out, rather than at the start of their turn. Otherwise, you get goofy situations where a PC isn't "quick enough" to move himself out of the effect before the poison hits, but is "quick enough" to drag allies out before the poison hits. I generally don't like goofy situations like that (others don't mind them at all), so I'd just rule in a way that makes more sense.

[SwordChuck]

It just says 'creature' for grapple, which everywhere else in the book means both allies and enemies.

I'd certainly hand wave the contest aspect if they weren't resisting.

5e was made with the idea of plain English. A contest (grapple is a contest) is when two creatures opose each other. That is NOT happening when an ally grabs another ally.

And again, you are talking about combat rules.

Allies are not in combat against each other. There is no RAW for this except "Ask the DM".

Please stop pretending like there is.

[Shining Wrath]

If you are trying to grapple someone who is not capable of resisting or who chooses not to resist, their score on the opposed check is exactly zero. Since the rules say the DM should not ask for an ability check when the DC is zero, I'd rule it's not an Action to grapple the unresisting. It's the same difficulty as taking hold of any other inanimate object. 5e limits you to one such "freebie" per round.

Moving once you've grabbed them is a different situation. It seems intuitive that if the party's STR 20 minotaur fighter is moving the 30 pound gnome that's easier than the 30 pound gnome (STR 10) moving the 350 pound full-plate minotaur. DM judgement is required.

I think I'd do 1/2 speed but if you can make an Athletics check, DC equal to person's weight divided by 10, you can move an extra 5', and then for every 5 you beat that check by you can move another 5', up to maximum speed. If the minotaur reaches 23 on the Athletics check, they can move their full 50' (assuming Dash), while the gnome needs 35 on their Athletics check to even move an extra 5'.

[WickerNipple]

There's no reason not to apply the combat rules when you're in combat doing combat things.

Where are ally and enemy even definied in this book? This is not like 4e where they're seperate categories of models - you can Bless the enemy all you please in this edition, or Cure them or stab them. You can do the same thing to your friends. We're all creatures now.

This is the only mechanic that exists in the game to do what these players want to do. I don't see any reason to make it easier for them to kite area effect spells. I haven't had players try to do this yet, but after thinking about it I'd probably even make em do the grapple contest in many cases. I certainly don't want the 8str wizard having an easy time of pulling the 20str raging barbarian out of a cloudkill before it hurts him.

[Temperjoke]

Grapple is probably wrong in this situation, but wouldn't a simple athletics strength check be enough for something like this? Depending on how big of a margin of the roll versus the DC you decide for the situation, that would tell you how fast the PC could pull the other character, for example, someone who barely passed the check by a 1 or 2 logically wouldn't be able to move the person as well as someone who was 10 over the DC. Granted, its a lot more mental work involved, but it'd probably be more accurate, since it takes into account the character's abilities.

[SwordChuck]

There's no reason not to apply the combat rules when you're in combat doing combat things.

Yes there is. The allies are not fighting each other, there is no combat between them.

You sound like the type of player/DM that would make my character die is septic shock because there was no rules for using the rest room... Or perhaps I would need a acrobatics check versus a bush in order to urinate on it.

You are over thinking things. 5e was made with plain English and there is no contest or combat between the two allies (unless one ally wants to stay where they were).

[Sitri]

Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your
Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in
pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that
most characlers don't usually have to worry about it.
Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a
weighl in pounds up to lwice your carrying capacity
(or 30 times your Slrength score). While pushing or
dragging wcight in excess ofyour carrying capacity,
your speed drops lo 5 feet.

The 8 str wizard can drag the minotaur 5' if the bull+ gear weigh less than 240 lbs. And I don't see a problem with grab taking an action; our dm does it that way and no one has ever questioned it.

[Ruslan]

I agree there should be no contest between the allies if one is not resisting, but grabbing him still takes a grapple check (ie. an attack). You just automatically succeed on this check, but it still takes up the attack action.

[Hudsonian]

I would say that if you are treating your PCs as objects, You get one object interaction per turn. No moving two allies. ALSO, when you enter the cloud, it triggers the effect (1/turn). By the time people are getting cloudkill/stinking cloud etc. You're taking a decently significant risk to try and save 1 friend. That being said, I would allow my players and my monsters to go for this tactic. Risk/Reward ratio seems to be ok. Or if a player starts in the area and saves, it would make sense that he would attempt to rescue his friend.

[SwordChuck]

I agree there should be no contest between the allies if one is not resisting, but grabbing him still takes a grapple check (ie. an attack). You just automatically succeed on this check, but it still takes up the attack action.

So do people now need grapple checks (and use an action) to grab an item that another player wants to give them?

Or a grapple check to open a door?

Even at auto succeed you really are punishing players way too much by adding in rules that aren't needed.

Grapples are for contest only, if there is no contest then there is no grapple check. A willing ally is no harder to grab than a door, axe off the ground, or the numerous other things you can do with a free "use an item" action that needs the player to grab the item.

[Ruslan]

So do people now need grapple checks (and use an action) to grab an item that another player wants to give them?

Or a grapple check to open a door?

Even at auto succeed you really are punishing players way too much by adding in rules that aren't needed.
All those are strawmen.


Grapples are for contest only, if there is no contest then there is no grapple. A willing ally is no harder to grab than a door, axe off the ground, or the numerous other things you can do with a free "use an item" action that needs the player to grab the item.A valid opinion, but rulewise, not a correct one. A creature is not an object. Feel free to houserule otherwise if you want.

[Shining Wrath]

All those are strawmen.

A valid opinion, but rulewise, not a correct one. A creature is not an object. Feel free to houserule otherwise if you want.

But things that can be done trivially are not supposed to consume your action. Walking across the room (normal circumstances) is not an action and doesn't require an Acrobatics check.

[SwordChuck]

All those are strawmen.

A valid opinion, but rulewise, not a correct one. A creature is not an object. Feel free to houserule otherwise if you want.

I'm actually asking you because the logic you are using for grabbing a willing creature (well, the clothing of a willing creature) doesn't work in any other simular situation.

Wrong. There are no specific rules on this, thus "ask the DM" is the rules.

You are using rules for contests and combat when there is no contest or combat between the two creatures.

[WickerNipple]

You are over thinking things.

No I really don't think I am. I'm pretty sure applying that rule is by far the simpliest approach.

In addition to keeping it simple: I don't personally want creatures getting their full round of actions before pulling someone out of a cloudkill before it can affect them. That seems ridiculously gamist to me, and that's my reading of the OP's concern. I'm perfectly okay with them doing it, so long as they're paying an opportunity cost like grapple is. But it shouldn't be free to pick your friends up and cart them around in battle. No one does this!

Imagine the hilarity of always carting people around at the cost of just half your speed. Tank rolls low initive every combat? Just drag him to the front line with your rogue for some sweet sneak attack! Do you actually play that way chuck?

[Finieous]

I doubt anyone plays that way, but it seems to me the best way to handle it is to say, "You can drag him up there, but his dead weight is no threat to your enemies so you won't get sneak attack." Then the player will say, "Oh, okay, that makes sense" and you'll go on with the game.

[WickerNipple]

But conceptually you're cool with everyone basically being a free taxi service whenever they want to? It's like a monty python sketch with chairs.

Hey whatever, it's a funny enough concept to introduce to a session.

[Ruslan]

Shining Wrath: this thread is not about walking across the room in normal circumstances, nor is it about things that can be done trivially. It is about dragging a 200 lb armor-clad warrior out of a cloud of poisonous gas. Possibly, dragging several armor-clad warriors at the same time. Ok?

[Finieous]

No, I'm not okay with players (or the DM) abusing the mechanical structure of the combat round to produce goofy results. I'm okay with characters dragging other characters, though, as long as they're strong enough.

[WickerNipple]

Why would you not drag someone around every single combat round?

Fighter kills enemy, is about to spend move to engage new enemy, picks up rogue and sticks him on his shoulder, carts over to new foe....!

Does anyone actually play like this? Cause what y'all are arguing should make this D&D Stategy 101.

[Mr.Moron]

Using your action to pick someone up and carry them around seems fair to me.

If they're literally dragging them: grabbing them by the arm/leg/whatever and just pulling hard so that the other person moves without having to walk by using their move action that doesn't need an action to initiate, but obviously renders the individual prone and leaves them vulnerable floor hazards (no save if you accidentally drag them across a trap etc..) in addition to it being rather undignified. f they're not wearing a helmet or particularly tall it might call for a con save vs stun, given you're like to crash your head into the ground pretty hard getting yanked off your feet like that.

If their pulling/guiding the person along with the other person walking along with them I'd say that need their movement which they can't do during someone else's turn. However because it's kind of clever and I'd say the pull-ee can use their reaction, move up to half their with the puller. They still have to make the save against the effect but get advantage.

[Finieous]

Why would you not drag someone around every single combat round?


Because the DM says "No abusing the mechanical structure of the combat round"?

[WickerNipple]

Because the DM says "No abusing the mechanical structure of the combat round"?

Lol you created this abuse by not requiring a grapple!

[Syll]

Using your action to pick someone up and carry them around seems fair to me.

If they're literally dragging them: grabbing them by the arm/leg/whatever and just pulling hard so that the other person moves without having to walk by using their move action that doesn't need an action to initiate, but obviously renders the individual prone and leaves them vulnerable floor hazards (no save if you accidentally drag them across a trap etc..) in addition to it being rather undignified.



I'd add an Athletics check for dragging, but otherwise agree with this.

[Kane0]

On the fly i'd rule it uses your action to grab them (as per a grapple, but you auto-succeed since you're allies) then can move them at half speed, which also counts against their movement too. If your STR is low and/or your carrying a lot then you'd need to make an athletics check to pull it off too.

So the only roll you'd need is if you're weak or already encumbered, it just uses movement and your action.

[Knaight]

Lol you created this abuse by not requiring a grapple!

A lot of it is still there even without the grapple, and is an effect of individual rounds. It's a weird result that comes out of them, but it's no more weird than something like an area of effect spell going off, then someone charging when the rounds are supposed to represent simultaneous actions.

[Finieous]

Lol you created this abuse by not requiring a grapple!

I didn't create anything. Nothing has been created. There's no issue because I'm happy to use...drumroll...rulings, not rules. In my experience, when rules can be twisted to produce goofy results, a quick and sensible ruling is a better option than trying to twist other rules (grapple, in this case) to offset the originally twisted one. YMMV -- I think the outcome is the same, but the "ruling" option is faster and less likely to produce unintended consequences downstream.

[Sitri]

If you don't call it a grapple move, it seems you would have to use Lift, Drag, Push rules, in which case only STR based characters have a chance of moving another med player over 5'.

[WickerNipple]

I didn't create anything. Nothing has been created. There's no issue because I'm happy to use...drumroll...rulings, not rules. In my experience, when rules can be twisted to produce goofy results, a quick and sensible ruling is a better option than trying to twist other rules (grapple, in this case) to offset the originally twisted one. YMMV -- I think the outcome is the same, but the "ruling" option is faster and less likely to produce unintended consequences downstream.

You have advocated for an environment where it doesn't require your action to pick up and move a fellow model around the board.

If that becomes a free action, it would become something normal to do every single turn. This seems to be the exact problem to the OP is having. The solution is to enforce the rules we have and make this an action.

This is simple solution = problem solved.


If you don't call it a grapple move, it seems you would have to use Lift, Drag, Push rules, in which case only STR based characters have a chance of moving another med player over 5'.

I'm cool with that too if they're unconscious.

[Finieous]

You have advocated for an environment where it doesn't require your action to pick up and move a fellow model around the board.


No I haven't. However, I was under the impression that you were the one arguing that the grapple rules should be applied, and that was what I was disagreeing with. "Yes, you can drag him as long as he doesn't resist, but it takes your action and he's prone" is a fine ruling.

[WickerNipple]

No I haven't. However, I was under the impression that you were the one arguing that the grapple rules should be applied, and that was what I was disagreeing with. "Yes, you can drag him as long as he doesn't resist, but it takes your action and he's prone" is a fine ruling.

Grapple in this context just means using your Action. Grapple is the action that lets you drag people. Period. It's really quite simple.

You as DM can hand wave the contest if you feel it's appropriate based on play.

But if you don't make them spend an action to do that? Hilarity ensues.

[McNinja]

I'm cool with that too if they're unconscious.Why would they have to be unconscious? You're pulling a creature that isn't resisting in the least. You're not trying to grapple with something, all you would need is an athletics check or, for even more simplification, using the rules for pushing, pulling, or lifting.

Moving a creature that is not resisting is the logical equivalent of moving a table or a chair. Unless you also think we should be using the Grapple rules for moving Paralyzed creatures too?

[CNagy]

Nothing about dragging someone around makes them go prone.

Dragging a creature requires grappling with it. The very first line of grappling, page 195 PHB, "When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it..." Grabbing a creature, even an ally, requires using an attack action to make a grapple attempt. A willing creature would automatically lose the contest (Contests, page 171 PHB, "Both participants in a contest make ability checks appropriate to their efforts.") and thus be dragged around at half speed by the creature initiating the grapple. The grappler still has any other attacks he might have from Extra Attack, just like with grappling a hostile creature, as well as a bonus action and reaction as appropriate.

A Monk could grab the downed Fighter, kick one of the Orcs next to him, Flurry of Blows to kill that Orc with one more hit and Stunning Strike another in order to make a clean getaway, dragging the Fighter to the back line for some medical attention. Monks are pretty much built for this sort of thing.

[goto124]

For these purposes, the ally getting dragged around is essentially a really heavy object, right?

Are there rules for dragging around really heavy objects? Reduced speed and such>

[MaxWilson]

You know, this thread makes me realize that by RAW, a 20th level fighter can grab and drag up to eight enemy creatures per turn with Action Surge (requires releasing one before grabbing the next one) but can only grab two objects (one with object interaction, one with his action).

Good thing I'm okay with rewriting PHB rules to make more sense. Some of the other posters in this thread are a bit more hostile to that sort of thing unfortunately.

When I've had to deal with allies moving each other (not infrequently), I've treated it as a grapple with auto-success, because people are so heavy and awkward that it doesn't seem right to treat them as a free object interaction. I would rule similarly for a heavy and awkward object, like a huge log or statue.

[Glarnog]

I think Sitri has it right with the encumbrance rules. Avg Str character can carry about 165 lbs? Good for smaller and lighter allies. But most adventures are going to have armor, a bevy of weapons and just about every thing else they can carry strapped to them. So even the strongest characters are going to have a hard dragging someone more than 5' a round. Once you take in to account what they are already carrying, plus the weight of the person they are dragging plus the weight of the person to be dragged's gear its just not anything you need worry about.

[Slipperychicken]

Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your
Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in
pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that
most characlers don't usually have to worry about it.
Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a
weighl in pounds up to lwice your carrying capacity
(or 30 times your Slrength score). While pushing or
dragging wcight in excess ofyour carrying capacity,
your speed drops lo 5 feet.

The 8 str wizard can drag the minotaur 5' if the bull+ gear weigh less than 240 lbs. And I don't see a problem with grab taking an action; our dm does it that way and no one has ever questioned it.

This. It's an encumbrance issue. Count the PC's inventory toward his push/drag limit, plus the ally's weight and inventory, and you'll find the problem solves itself. If you track encumbrance, then no houseruling is required here.

[Tanarii]

Grapple rules cover grabbing and dragging living, moving, conscious creatures in a combat situation. Ally or enemy. Spend an attack to grab it, then move it at half speed, providing the ally & gear are under your carrying weight limit. 5ft /round if it's under your drag limit.

Living creatures, even unresisting ones, aren't objects. If your ally goes limp and prone, or unconscious, then you drag it around using your object interaction.

This even makes perfect sense from both a simulation it's and game rules perspective. Rules-wise, it's balanced and prevents silly abuse. Simulation-wise, an ally in combat who has no clue you're about to grab him doesn't just sit there waiting for you to get a hold like an object does. He's moving around, defending himself, and would probably even flinch away from someone making a sudden move towards him, ally or not. An attack to interact simulates that perfectly.

Once you've got a hold of your ally at the cost of an attack, the weight rules for dragging apply, just like for dragging any creature you're grappling.

[Shining Wrath]

Shining Wrath: this thread is not about walking across the room in normal circumstances, nor is it about things that can be done trivially. It is about dragging a 200 lb armor-clad warrior out of a cloud of poisonous gas. Possibly, dragging several armor-clad warriors at the same time. Ok?

True. But the act of grasping that 200 pound warrior to drag him is a trivially easy one. The rules for a casual action include picking something up off the floor and don't mention the weight of that item. My argument, then, is that the moving of the 200 pound warrior is an Athletics check, or you can just call it "move at half speed" to keep the game fast. The act of grasping him so that he can be dragged is in fact trivial and does not cost an action. But you only get one casual action per turn.

Grabbing someone who wants to be grabbed = trivial. Moving large person after grabbing them = hard. Moving gnome when you are a 20 strength fighter = easy.

[Tanarii]

True. But the act of grasping that 200 pound warrior to drag him is a trivially easy one.

Grabbing someone who wants to be grabbed = trivial.
but grabbing someone who is engaged in combat is not even close to trivial, ally or not. Even if you've worked out the tactic in advance, using the grapple rules requiring an attack is not only following RAW, but justified from a simulation perspective.

In fact, the assumption he won't resist just because you're his ally is unwarranted. As a DM, I'd not only require the grapple but also the opposed skill roll, unless you'd explicitly worked out the tactic in character in advance.

[Knaight]

Grapple in this context just means using your Action. Grapple is the action that lets you drag people. Period. It's really quite simple.

Treating grapple and using your action as inherently synonymous here is all sorts of sketchy. I wouldn't call this a grapple, but absolutely would have it involve an action.

[ryan92084]

If they want to be careful about it and not cause harm it sounds like the Use an Object action (not the free item interaction) to me. Unless, of course, they plan on just grabbing their ally's arm, roughly dragging them across the stony ground, and causing death save rolling damage to their poor unconscious cohort.

It could also be a strength check if you want a chance of failure/droppage or its particularly rough terrain.

[Slipperychicken]

In fact, the assumption he won't resist just because you're his ally is unwarranted.

That seems like a matter for the ally's player to decide. If he wants his character to consent to the grapple, then no roll should be needed.

If, like most PCs, the grappler and grappled have a bond forged in mortal conflict and trust one another with their lives, I think one would trust the other to be grabbing him for a good reason (say, pulling him out of danger or into cover). If they're perfect strangers and don't trust one another, then I could see resistance happening. Some kind of communication could help matters, like if one PC is pulling the other to the ground and shouted a warning like "GET DOWN, GRENADE!", that would make me less skeptical than if one simply tackled the other.

[SwordChuck]

but grabbing someone who is engaged in combat is not even close to trivial, ally or not. Even if you've worked out the tactic in advance, using the grapple rules requiring an attack is not only following RAW, but justified from a simulation perspective.

In fact, the assumption he won't resist just because you're his ally is unwarranted. As a DM, I'd not only require the grapple but also the opposed skill roll, unless you'd explicitly worked out the tactic in character in advance.


There is no RAW for grabbing your ally, the only thing close to RAW is "Ask your DM".

I guess in order to cast Cure Wounds on an ally I now need to make an attack roll to touch the ally? Or a grapple check?*

Allies are not in combat with each other and there is no contest when both are willing.

××××
Edit...

So to cast Cure Wounds I would need to do the following.

Action: Cast the Spell

Wait 1 round

Action: Touch ally

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

but grabbing someone who is engaged in combat is not even close to trivial, ally or not. Even if you've worked out the tactic in advance, using the grapple rules requiring an attack is not only following RAW, but justified from a simulation perspective.

This is important. A living creature that is currently engaged in combat is nothing like an inanimate object. A warrior would be constantly shifting stances, winding up attacks, preparing a defense etc. Even if willing, it's not trivial.
This combatant is focused on the enemy, and suddenly when someone comes from another direction and grabs them, they just go limp and let it happen? This is not a trust-fall team-building exercise.
Even if the character co-ordinate, calling out to give/receive help, this co-ordination alone should account for some from of action economy opportunity cost.

[SwordChuck]

This is important. A living creature that is currently engaged in combat is nothing like an inanimate object. A warrior would be constantly shifting stances, winding up attacks, preparing a defense etc. Even if willing, it's not trivial.
This combatant is focused on the enemy, and suddenly when someone comes from another direction and grabs them, they just go limp and let it happen? This is not a trust-fall team-building exercise.
Even if the character co-ordinate, calling out to give/receive help, this co-ordination alone should account for some from of action economy opportunity cost.

Healing and buffing allies when you have to touch them must be a nightmare in your games.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Healing and buffing allies when you have to touch them must be a nightmare in your games.

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Touching a creature is not the same as grabbing them and hauling them around; changing their momentum and position.

Edit: Of note is that those abilities already require a full action, and aren't free actions.

[SwordChuck]

Note: I'm not saying that you can't make it an action (I would just make it part of movement) to grab the ally.

In saying that there is no RAW for this.

Ability checks are only there for when there is a chance for failure. Saying that there is a chance of failure for grabbing an ally means that there is a chance of failure when you try to touch them with a spell.

Either characters are competent or they are not. I like to assume that characters are competent. Saying you need to grapple an ally in order to grab them is just so... Extreme? Yeah extreme.

[CNagy]

Note: I'm not saying that you can't make it an action (I would just make it part of movement) to grab the ally.

In saying that there is no RAW for this.

Ability checks are only there for when there is a chance for failure. Saying that there is a chance of failure for grabbing an ally means that there is a chance of failure when you try to touch them with a spell.

Either characters are competent or they are not. I like to assume that characters are competent. Saying you need to grapple an ally in order to grab them is just so... Extreme? Yeah extreme.

Already pointed out the RAW. Grabbing or wrestling a creature (note the "or") is a grapple check. That's RAW. It isn't a contest unless they resist (Contests, pg 171). That's also RAW. There is a very simple, straightforward RAW for this. I want to grab an ally and drag him somewhere, it requires an attack action to grapple. If he forcefully resists me, he's contesting with his Athletics. If he tries to slip out of my grasp, he's contesting with Acrobatics. If he makes no effort to resist, he rolls no check and I automatically win the contest. I can move him at 1/2 speed, as stated in the Grappling rules.

There is no ally/enemy distinction when something states "creature." Grabbing and touching are not the same thing, and touching as part of a spell only requires an attack roll if the spell states that it requires an attack roll.

[stenver]

Ok thanks guys for your input. I think there are 2 changes I am going to make:

* Make it interaction to pull ally.

* If the character is weak, he can only pull him 5 feet.

That removes most of the silliness and problems I had. Only one left is VIP train, but whatever, that can be denied when it happens.

Note that this is all pulling an ally who is standing up, you dont need to focus entire round to pull him away, its more like - grab and pull and get back to your own stuff.

Thats why I dont like to make it a "grapple" action either. A quick pull wouldn't take 6 seconds, its more like pulling your friend out of danger and then continuing fighting like in many of the movies.

[Shining Wrath]

Already pointed out the RAW. Grabbing or wrestling a creature (note the "or") is a grapple check. That's RAW. It isn't a contest unless they resist (Contests, pg 171). That's also RAW. There is a very simple, straightforward RAW for this. I want to grab an ally and drag him somewhere, it requires an attack action to grapple. If he forcefully resists me, he's contesting with his Athletics. If he tries to slip out of my grasp, he's contesting with Acrobatics. If he makes no effort to resist, he rolls no check and I automatically win the contest. I can move him at 1/2 speed, as stated in the Grappling rules.

There is no ally/enemy distinction when something states "creature." Grabbing and touching are not the same thing, and touching as part of a spell only requires an attack roll if the spell states that it requires an attack roll.

Except most DMs do not require a roll when the DC of an action is zero, and in fact that's pretty much the definition of something that can be done trivially.

Which is more difficult: for a Strength 10 wizard to open a door, or for a Strength 24 barbarian to pick up a 30 pound gnome ally? Opening a door is something you can do as your free action, and I'd say it's pretty clear the barbarian isn't exerting as large a fraction of his strength picking up the gnome.

[unwise]

Nothing new to add really, except that throwing companions can be a worthy improv move too. As a DM I loved it when a barbarian PC decide to maintain his Rage by throwing the Gnome melee ranger at a distant enemy. Str 18, plus goliath size, plus advantage on athletics and the Gnome becomes a deadly missile. The Gnome made an exceptional acrobatics, so was not at disadvantage and quickly dispatched the foe. Of course afterwards she said "of course, I could have just walked over there and done that" everybody looked at her like she was missing the point entirely.

[CNagy]

Except most DMs do not require a roll when the DC of an action is zero, and in fact that's pretty much the definition of something that can be done trivially.

Which is more difficult: for a Strength 10 wizard to open a door, or for a Strength 24 barbarian to pick up a 30 pound gnome ally? Opening a door is something you can do as your free action, and I'd say it's pretty clear the barbarian isn't exerting as large a fraction of his strength picking up the gnome.

You're getting ahead of the action. D&D is procedural; step follows step follows step. You don't know what the DC is going to be until you've grabbed the creature in question. That grab doesn't cost you an ability check; it doesn't have a component that can be DC 0. The grab costs you one attack out of an attack action. That happens before anyone thinks anything about contests. And then, when the creature does not resist (or you win the contest) the dragging is semi-trivial; it doesn't cost you any further actions or attacks (you can even attack other creatures while dragging you ally if you still have extra attacks or bonus action attacks), it only reduces you to half movement.

But the fact remains that according to the words written on the pages, grabbing a creature (friends and foes are both creatures) is a function of the grapple attack, and the cost of initiating a grapple is using the attack action and expending one of your available attacks. Whether or not that seems appropriate, it is the clear-as-day RAW. But I think it is also appropriate--if you try to grapple a paralyzed enemy creature, would the creature get to use Athletics or Acrobatics to contest the grapple? It can't move, and it automatically fails Str and Dex saving throws (though interestingly they left the fate of skill checks unspoken) --that seems like the definition of a trivial difficulty. But would you expect to get to grapple that paralyzed creature without using the attack action? Would you expect to be allowed to grapple the creature as a non-action, and then Cast a Spell as an example? To be clear, this is why I think the RAW makes sense--you have 6 seconds in a combat round and choosing to grab onto someone, whether they are your friend or not, is a significant demand of your attention. If you're a skilled enough warrior (you've got Extra attack), it doesn't demand all of your attention, but it is still not trivial.

[Mr.Moron]

Except most DMs do not require a roll when the DC of an action is zero, and in fact that's pretty much the definition of something that can be done trivially.

Which is more difficult: for a Strength 10 wizard to open a door, or for a Strength 24 barbarian to pick up a 30 pound gnome ally? Opening a door is something you can do as your free action, and I'd say it's pretty clear the barbarian isn't exerting as large a fraction of his strength picking up the gnome.

What about the strength 8 gnome wizard or STR 11 human sorcerer, grabbing the 6'6" 320lb Half-Orc Fighter wearing 60lbs of gear? Is there any difference in resolution and the STR 24 barbarian getting the gnome wizard? Using the auto-pass grapple does not allow for any difference between these two actions.

[djreynolds]

There is some logic about using the grapple system.

If the person being dragged is friendly, you would get advantage on your strength check to drag him
You are at disadvantage to attack someone else while dragging maybe.

You can at least use it as a template.

Can a rogue use his action to grab a buddy and still dash away?

[Vogonjeltz]

Currently, so far, I have allowed people to move allies on their turn by moving at half speed. This, however, brings some complications.

1. When enemy casts something like "cloudkill", then allies simply drag them out. Not much I can do against that, except have enemies use the same tactic. The ridiculous part if somebody takes dash action and pulls 3 allies out of the harms way, almost completely negating the harmful effects.

2. When you drag ally out of reach, I have allowed enemy have OA.

3. When some VIP is dragged by multiple allies in a row, he can move up to incredible speeds.

So whats your solution to the problem that sometimes you just want to drag your ally

1) PHB 176: "You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity...While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet." - A human is anywhere from 110-270 lbs, not including the weight of their gear. Let's be generous and assume they're wearing only scale mail, they've dropped their only weapon and for some reason weren't wearing a backpack. That's up to 315 lbs, which alone exceeds the carrying capacity of anyone without magically enhanced strength, and would drop their movement speed to 5 feet. Even if we assumed the minimum weight of 110 + 45 lb armor, that exceeds the capacity on a character of less than str 11 (again, not even including their own equipment weight). Anyone attempting to drag a limp body is almost certain to have their speed down to 5 feet. Check their carry capacity.

2) Forced movement does not provoke an Opportunity Attack, PHB 195.

3) This only applies to combat, so the distance won't be that incredible as you the DM set the limits on who is in combat. I wouldn't even worry considering it would require the participants to be strung out on a line for the given path already (which is absurdity).

[djreynolds]

1) PHB 176: "You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity...While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet." - A human is anywhere from 110-270 lbs, not including the weight of their gear. Let's be generous and assume they're wearing only scale mail, they've dropped their only weapon and for some reason weren't wearing a backpack. That's up to 315 lbs, which alone exceeds the carrying capacity of anyone without magically enhanced strength, and would drop their movement speed to 5 feet. Even if we assumed the minimum weight of 110 + 45 lb armor, that exceeds the capacity on a character of less than str 11 (again, not even including their own equipment weight). Anyone attempting to drag a limp body is almost certain to have their speed down to 5 feet. Check their carry capacity.

2) Forced movement does not provoke an Opportunity Attack, PHB 195.

3) This only applies to combat, so the distance won't be that incredible as you the DM set the limits on who is in combat. I wouldn't even worry considering it would require the participants to be strung out on a line for the given path already (which is absurdity).

Does the dragger provoke AoO?

[NNescio]

Does the dragger provoke AoO?

As long as the dragger himself does not move out of reach of other creatures (or trigger some other OA-granting effect like Polearm Mastery/Sentinel), no.

[goto124]

What's the fluff behind the AoO, anyway? I've always wondered.

[georgie_leech]

What's the fluff behind the AoO, anyway? I've always wondered.

If you don't Disengage, you're not moving away carefully enough and moving at a normal pace. Meaning, rather than back away cautiously, you're turning around and walking away. Anyone who knows which end of a sword to stick into the enemy (hint: the pointy bit) isn't going to miss that opening.