i feel cheated (spoilers briefly)

[mercer]

mikos death was dissapointing. i am not a rabid fan of "miko the savoir", nor do i think she is evil incarnate and must die. she was a good character (in literary terms, not gaming terms), she just could've been so much more. she had the potential to be a great badguy but now she may well never have existed.

she originally was nothing more than Annoying Paladin Stereotype #1, then we found her "stick up butt" class ability, was really full blown psychosis. she developed into something more than an obstacle, she couldve been a reoccuring nightmare for the PCs worse than LG or The Xykon Happy Fun Super Troupe. a maniacal zealot with no redeeming qualities. someone you could really hate as a badguy.

nale: thinks hes more clever than he is creating a wile e. coyote vibe.
thog: nuff said
xykon and redcloak: zap branigan and kips bizzaro counterparts

miko is nothing but a trained humorless killer. the first serious threat to the OOTS.

her death just feels like a cop-out. remove her before the controversy gets too bad but still appease both factions. kinda forgiven, kinda not. not a paladin, but not a blackguard either. just a waste of plot potential coming from a DM and storytelling point of view. i just feel all around dissapointed.

[Castamir]

We have been promised that Miko will stay until near the end. This means, either not dead or not dead-dead.

[banjo1985]

I really can't see this being the last of :miko: , she's too useful a plot device to leave lying around in two pieces! Either :xykon: will get hold of her corpse and do some necromantic skullduggery (pun most definitely intended), or she may appear as a ghost elsewhere in the story, maybe with :roy: if our fearless leader is indeed gone for the long haul.

I wouldn't say I'm disappointed, but I didn't expect her death to be quite THAT graphic!

[Daracaex]

Just because a character has potential to be a good bad guy, doesn't mean it should necessarily be jumped on to get all the potential you can for it. Sometimes, a story can do better if you just let a character go. In the end, it's up to the writer's mindset and where he/she wants the story to go in the end.

That being said, I didn't expect that in the least. For some reason, I assumed Miko lived even though she was in the center of a huge explosion that tore apart the entire castle.

[mercer]

but bringing her back is also a cop out. in game resurection is fine, but in media it makes death trivial. "oh just wait til my friends make some money, then youre gonna get it, til your friends make some money." and she was content with death, she doesnt want to come back most likely. unless its as undead by redcloak, which still wastes all of her development. roys death was a double edge sword, it took away his character shield showing nobody is invincible here and added a new dynamic to the story. but it left many open storylines, and ressing him counters everything his death built unless bringing him back is a long difficult and painful process (like wulfgar's in R.A. Salvatore's books). i dont think any of us (rabid miko-ites included) would be happy if that same attention was paid to miko. it would add a side mission story arc that has no bearing on the main cast unless Rich thinks up a reason they NEED miko, otherwise its pointless.

[Oxymoron]

I`m a bit dissapointed myself, but the Giant is full of surprises. My trust lies with HIM, for his plottines comforts me.

If the Giant was George Lucas however:smalleek: , THEN I`ll feel worried.

[kolvar]

Mhm, there is this template in the MM, where some person with unfinished business returns in incorporeal form. Chose the unfinished business for Miko you want (redemption, hunt down roy ...) and apply the template. No resurection, no redcload, but still, she is around.
But somehow, I can not believe, that this will happen.

[mercer]

and i realise chars. need to be let go somtimes but with that buildup it was empty. it would be like spiderman breaking green goblins neck the first time they fought after spending several issues building up how this will not be like anything parker is used to.

and i do not want this to be fan service, i would be dissapointed in Rich if he started doing stuff to make everyone happy for no other reason thanto make us happy, instead of doing what HE wants and letting us read it and love it or leave it. like he says is the plan in the FAQ

[Ancalagon]

It was a great death. And remember... it even came with a big bang!

[Selv]

Apparently I am in a definite minority. I thought Miko's death was very well done and, while I can see her creeping back in to the story one way or another, I doubt it will be soon.

It is, as Mercer said, very difficult to make death meaningful in the D&D world. It's the dark side of the joke we had in #184 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0184.html). "Alas poor Yorick, where is your capering and jokes and.. oh, hi, you're back." Heck, it even took exposition (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html) on Belkar's part to get around the fact that Shojo was more inconvenienced by having his conversations overheard than he was by being hacked in half with a katana. I think Roy's death has been handled well by not seeing him in the afterlife and rather, focussing on the consequences of his death and the reactions of the rest of the cast. I'd be dissapointed in Miko is back up and about, be in Paladin, Blackguard, Greyguard or any other type of guard.

I like that the depth of Miko's problems weren't glosseed over with a too-easy redemption, and I like that she didn't become a major villain. In a way, it's full-circle: Miko, archetype of the Black and White morality, ends up demonstrating that there's a few more dimensions to the problem.

For me, the perfect moment in today's comic was Miko's last line: it implies (to me, at least) that she has finally recognised her Fall for what it is. Just maybe the start of cracks in the huge crazy edifice she constructed.

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

Apparently I am in a definite minority. I thought Miko's death was very well done Minority or majority, you're not alone.

[Ridureyu]

I think you're majority.

[orcmonk89]

Death Knight template, anyone ;)

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

My evil side would really, really love to see Miko come back as some sort of intelligent undead. Especially if she retains the personality she had in life but still has to serve whoever brought her back. Oh it would be so delightfully torturous for our poor little fallen Paladin.

[Neithan]

Am I the only one thinking her death was way overdue and hopes we never see her again?
Of course, there were many fun moments, but I think she got really anoying. Not in the funny-anoying way, but the anoying-anoying way... :/

[GKBeetle]

We have been promised that Miko will stay until near the end. This means, either not dead or not dead-dead.
Or, it means that it is near the end. I've got a bad feeling that OOTS will be done at or around the 500 comic mark, which isn't very far off.

[CDR Grendelwulf]

My evil side would really, really love to see Miko come back as some sort of intelligent undead. Especially if she retains the personality she had in life but still has to serve whoever brought her back. Oh it would be so delightfully torturous for our poor little fallen Paladin.

Yeah...where's our delightful flying Goth-sorceress that loves dead things sooo much?

Ciao,
CDR Grendelwulf

[Kaziel]

We have been promised that Miko will stay until near the end. This means, either not dead or not dead-dead.How long ago did the giant promise this? Was it before the last few weeks with every Miko strip prompting a hojillion spoiler tagged Miko threads? Because if so, this could very well explain it. The Giant hates speculation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6468), and with every other thread having Miko's name in it's title (even ones not about Miko), he could have gotten really tired of her and changed his mind.

[Revlid]

Or, it means that it is near the end. I've got a bad feeling that OOTS will be done at or around the 500 comic mark, which isn't very far off.

So there's just 36 comics to wrap up two gates, the remaining prophecies, and the fate of the world, from a standing start? :smallconfused:

I don't think that can be right.


Yeah...where's our delightful flying Goth-sorceress that loves dead things sooo much?

This is an awesome idea and I love you for it.

[evileeyore]

We have been promised that Miko will stay until near the end. This means, either not dead or not dead-dead.Or read the third option:

Which end?

The entire story?
The end of Book Two?
The end of Miko?
The end of the Giant's sanity over the zealously infantile hatebois and hategyrls and their nonstop incessant Speculatory threads?

I'd opt for the last one...

[Ampersand]

The end of the Giant's sanity over the zealously infantile hatebois and hategyrls and their nonstop incessant Speculatory threads?

I'd opt for the last one...

That seems most likely, yes.

I'm disappointed in Miko's death because she didn't really figure things out on her own. What it came down to was:

Soon: Miko, you done screwed up bad, girl. As you die I'll lecture you with things cribbed from the forums, only with the bile and calls for your torture removed.

Miko: Crap inna hat.

I mean, it was touching to see her concern for Windstriker and all, but...her realization of how wrong she was about what it means to be a paladin seems forced.

[Lord_Butters_I]

Death is hardly the end in D&D. Resurect can be cast by a 13th level cleric, and Roy's dad proves that even if someone is permanantly dead he/she can still interact with the world.

[Ampersand]

Death is hardly the end in D&D. Resurect can be cast by a 13th level cleric, and Roy's dad proves that even if someone is permanantly dead he/she can still interact with the world.

Much as I'd love to see her back, both for how she'd influence the story and the chaos it'd cause here on the forums, Miko got a Final Speech, of sorts. So I'm not putting money on it.

[Morty]

The end of the Giant's sanity over the zealously infantile hatebois and hategyrls and their nonstop incessant Speculatory threads?


Or zealous fanboys and fangirls and their speculatory threads and flamewars with aforementioned haters.
Miko's death was quite well done. If she survived, she'd have to become part of the plot somehow, and this comic is quite subplot-heavy already. And now she died in a good way, doing what she thought was right and was indeed quite right.
Besides, her death will release the forum from threads made by people who take her waaaay too seriously.

[HomerHT]

Or, it means that it is near the end. I've got a bad feeling that OOTS will be done at or around the 500 comic mark, which isn't very far off.

Giant has said he has enough story to go to at least 1000. I mean, think about ALL that's left to be taken care of. There was a thread called loose ends a while back...let's see if I can find it...

[fruityjanitor]

Or, it means that it is near the end. I've got a bad feeling that OOTS will be done at or around the 500 comic mark, which isn't very far off.

Not possible.

For one, the fact that we know not only where the last two gates are, but what they are protected by, heavily implies that the Order will visit both of them.

Furthermore, Xykon definitely needs to visit Girard's gate (Oracle prophesied it) which is not going to happen and be resolved in less than 40 comics.

However, if that is not enough for you, remember that we still have two sideplots that will take some time to fulfill.

1) Durkon's death and return to the Dwarven lands. (Hinted at in his prophecy, the letter Miko got from the dwarves, and a prophecy that is in the On the Origin of PCs)

2) Haley's father in jail. (Mentioned in a letter Haley has between the destruction of Durokan's gate and the quest for Starmetal)


There's also Nale/Elan's father who will probably be significant and probably some other things that I'm forgetting about.

[Kreistor]

The Giant may have had longer term plans for her, but the excessive interest in the character, to the exclusion of the OotS members, may have inspired him to get rid of her.

[Alchemistmerlin]

Here's the thing, everyone is going on "She could have been a great villain!" "She could have been a character that you really loved to hate!"


I don't want to see hate in a comic that, as far as I can tell, is based on COMEDY.

Go back and reread the archives. Strangely, right around Miko showing up is when the comic lost a lot of its funny and gained a lot of its LOLDRAMA

[VMisery]

Well, so far, I've trusted the Giant's judgment and storytelling ability. I like how what started out a gag strip turned into a well-developed and intriguing epic, without losing its sense of humor. Though yes, sometimes I miss the...shallowness of D&D cracks carried by a thin plot, I'm very much enjoying this.

That said, I don't think this is the end of Miko, we will be seeing her again in some form, but I do think she finally started to "get it". Too late, but that's how it happens.

Too late for redemption, but maybe she can find some kind of peace. I hated Miko too, but a lot of that was borne from frustration that she just didn't see how her actions were wrong. Now that there's cracks appearing in her world view, it makes her a tiny bit more sympathetic, and I think the death scene was very well done. Even if it is the last that we see of her, though I still feel she's not quite done yet.

[Renx]

Cheated? Miko was an annoyance more than anything else. That she got a tragic ending was more than she deserved, dramatically. Now, I might be prejudiced, but blowing up a gate to Chaos (along with a bloody castle, and half of a town by rights), and getting your last words in... (I forget, 7th sea had final words clause, did D&D? I mean that whenever a PC dies he/she gets her final scene, along with last words regardless of reason and/or physics)

Well, as it is a fact that OotS will have a beginning, a middle and (finally) an end, I believe this was one of the best ways she could've gone out. Also, kickass way to go.

[blacksabre]

We have been promised that Miko will stay until near the end. This means, either not dead or not dead-dead.


Or it means the strip is nearing its end

[Ampersand]

The Giant may have had longer term plans for her, but the excessive interest in the character, to the exclusion of the OotS members, may have inspired him to get rid of her.

One would think that, if that was indeed the case, the easiest (or at least most direct) solution would be to make the protagonists more interesting.

Edit:


I don't want to see hate in a comic that, as far as I can tell, is based on COMEDY.

Every comedy needs tragic relief.


Go back and reread the archives. Strangely, right around Miko showing up is when the comic lost a lot of its funny and gained a lot of its LOLDRAMA

On the contrary, there's quite a lot of amusing things since Miko has been introduced. If what you intended to argue was that the introduction of Miko marked the transition from a gag-a-strip D&D rules parody to more of a semi-serious format with more of a plot than "There's a lich at the bottom of this dungeon we need to whup up on" or "I need to fix my family sword," you might have more of a case.

[inthesto]

snip

My thoughts exactly.

As un-deathlike as death is in D&D, the frame where you find out that Miko's been literally ripped in half would be utterly ruined if she came back to life. Really, I don't think her death sequence could have been any better.

[spectralgunther]

Cheated? Miko was an annoyance more than anything else. That she got a tragic ending was more than she deserved, dramatically.

Awwww, c'mon, Miko was annoying at first because she represented that annoying, undefeatable PC the DM control that keep the party from doing morally questionable acts, that kill every monsters/NPC you want to take prisoner, that took prisoners every monsters/NPC you want to kill, and let the DM get on with their railroad plot. Plus she was incredibly arrogant. Of course she was annoying, but since then she got torched by Belkar, beaten by the MitD, her father figure was killed by her own hands, she lost her paladin powers, got thrown in jail, her beautiful blue city was burned and she destroyed the castle herself. If she was so annoying, don't tell me you did not enjoy when she savored the bitter taste of all of this. She was not annoying anymore, she was lovable to be hated.

I kinda agree with mercer. She had the potential to be a great villain, the one with the most character development, but also a villain that would be satisfying to see defeated, unlike Nale or Xylon who reached a comical Wile E Coyote or Team Rocket state, villains which you know will be always be back for the next episode.

However, fruityjanitor make a point, there are a lot of storyline yet to explore, more dungeons, more kingdoms, lands and cultures, more subquests and 3 gates to protect (and possibly accidentaly destroy). 2 groups of villains are far enough already, it's time to introduce some new and possibly better one-shot antagonists. Xylon and Nale are already reoccuring villains, whose last schemes just filled the last 180 strips. If Miko was to join the club, the comic would quickly become a non-stop fight where the OOTS keep fighting Xylon, the LG and Miko over and over again as the setting and location changes. We need to make some place for new antagonists too, we can't just keep on dragging the 3 same ones until the end of the comic.

She might be back as an antagonist, but not a reoccuring one we'd see on every episodes, and not before several years, until we've seen possibly better villains, and forgot how great and how annoying she was. A part of me want to see her as a villain, but a part of me wouldn't mind if it never happened because I we need to see new faces too.

-edit-
When Rich said she'd be there for a long time, until the end of the comic, maybe he meant to say that she, or the entire Azure City cast, might have their own prequel book, like On The Origins of the PC and Start Of Darkness.

[TheBaffledKing]

Apparently I am in a definite minority. I thought Miko's death was very well done and, while I can see her creeping back in to the story one way or another, I doubt it will be soon.
I agree wholeheartedly with this and and everything else you say in your post.

[moscatabaco]

If the Giant was George Lucas however , THEN I`ll feel worried.

- Elan and Haley would be brother and sister
- Thog would behave as Jar-Jar binks
- The graphics would be much better, the plot much worse
- V would have more midichlorians than Xykon
- Miko WOULD had become a blackguard, and joined team evil
- Despite the overwhelming number of casualties of the war, none of the good guys with a name would've suffered more than a minor scratch (not to mention death)
- Instead of the Ghost martyrs of the Sapphire Guard, an army of fuzzy lovable characters would have shown up to help azure city on it's darkest hour.

[Demented]

On the contrary, there's quite a lot of amusing things since Miko has been introduced. If what you intended to argue was that the introduction of Miko marked the transition from a gag-a-strip D&D rules parody to more of a semi-serious format with more of a plot than "There's a lich at the bottom of this dungeon we need to whup up on" or "I need to fix my family sword," you might have more of a case.

Actually, that transition was once they actually reached Azure City.
It got all serious with the courtroom drama, the grand exposition from Shojo, and the closing death oath from Miko. Not to mention Eugene's "shocking" reveal, the revelation of Xykon's return...

Quite a bit went on between 250 and 300, as that was when the "real" plot, as it were, started.
Miko was just a prelude, of sorts. (Does it mean anything that the prelude has died?)