Brawler build- Major Armstrong

[ArendK]

While normally I disdain the practice, I'm looking into building an anime character for upcoming pathfinder games. Humored endlessly by the concept of FMA's Major Armstrong, I started working on a fear-based brawler using Dazzling Display to represent the ripping off of the shirt.

However, I want the character to be effective at fear and crowd control. I'm looking for ways to get that demoralizing into crowds with the best action economy I can. Starting at 6th level, 25 point buy, Paizo only.
Early builds have got me a god amongst my level for intimidation (+20 at 6th level), but I need to find ways to get that ability to get at least frightened status into my foes as well as manage the action economy so I can actually punch things in the face in the process. Suggestions?

[Florian]

That will be a hard one as the best feats and economy of actions in this regard is tied to the Slayer class and the Dazzling Display reduction is tied to the Fighter class.

Basic could be Power Attack > Cleave > Cornugon Smash, followed by Dazzling Display > Disheartening Display to move from shaken to frightened.

[avr]

To make the action economy work you need to go about it a different way. Some ways:

Get the Enforcer or Cornugon Smash feats and work with an on-hit effect.

Be a barbarian instead and get intimidating glare and boasting taunt to represent your shirt-ripping intimidate. Terrifying howl at 8th level would help too. This is the one I like the best BTW.

Bite the bullet and be some kind of caster, many get fear effects.

[Florian]

Be a barbarian instead and get intimidating glare and boasting taunt to represent your shirt-ripping intimidate. Terrifying howl at 8th level would help too. This is the one I like the best BTW.

That part could also be done with VMC Barbarian and getting a Helm of Fearsome Mien early on for free Intimidating Glare. Ok, Terrifying Howl would only come online at level 16....

[Coppertop]

If you're already grabbing Dazzling Display, wouldn't Hero's Display give you the action economy you want?

It's a bit of a feat investment to grab Performing Combatant as well, but it allows you to make the intimidate check as a swift action.

Actually, with Performing Combatant, you have better access to any of the display feats.

Just remember to have enough ranks in Perform (flex)!

[Triskavanski]

I've got a fighter build that uses tigerclaw type weapons that combines the whole thing together with a thug rogue. Its hard however to pull off, as I've got to find as many ways as I possibly could to use the whole hero's display feat chain.

Dealing Max Dmg
Charging
First Blood
Felling an Opponent
Performing a Maneuver
Multiple Blows

I think these are all ways to get it to trigger up.

[Florian]

I´d rather pick Extra Martial Flexibility twice and then use that to access performance combat feats, as those can really be a bit niche.

[upho]

However, I want the character to be effective at fear and crowd control. I'm looking for ways to get that demoralizing into crowds with the best action economy I can. Starting at 6th level, 25 point buy, Paizo only.
Early builds have got me a god amongst my level for intimidation (+20 at 6th level), but I need to find ways to get that ability to get at least frightened status into my foes as well as manage the action economy so I can actually punch things in the face in the process. Suggestions?Possible, but quite the build challenge IME. It's kinda easy if you want to terrorize one or two targets/round (Cornugon Smash, Enforcer, reliable AoO triggers), but extremely feat intensive and less reliable if you want true mass debuff and crowd control capacity. AFAIK, the only way for a martial class to achieve that is via performance combat feats, like Coppertop and Triskavanski mentioned above, and it probably won't allow you to stick to unarmed (and would require some reflavoring) if you're serious about crowd control. However, if you go all in and truly focus your build options, you can become an awesome mass debuffer/controller, in higher levels likely to make several enemies panic and at least one cowering each round...

Copied from one of my posts in a related thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?452640-Pouncing-Tiger-Martial-Controller) (actually started by Triskavanski):

I was curious to see the potential of this concept in a bit more detail so I've put together a quick build outline based on trip, since a successful trip triggers two performance combat checks and can be great for both generating AoOs and increasing control. The aim is simply maximizing Hero's Display demoralize attempts and lock-down/control power (reach, AoO triggers, hit effects etc) both for general party defense and to get panicked foes cowering (ie block as many potential means of escape as realistically possible). Hopefully it can give you a few ideas for Pouncing Tiger.


Demon-spawn tiefling blood conduit primalist bloodrager 9, gladiator mutation warrior fighter 4, master of many styles monk 2
Large female outsider (native)

SUGGESTED PROGRESSION (Not including retrained feats.)



Lvl

Class

Bonus Feats

Feats

Notable Features



1

Blood Conduit Primalist 1

Improved Trip

Fiendish Heritage (over-sized limbs)

Bloodrage, Fast Movement



2

Blood Conduit Primalist 2

-

-

Uncanny dodge



3

Blood Conduit Primalist 3

-

Dirty Fighting

-



4

Blood Conduit Primalist 4

Weapon Focus (Guisarme) (ioun)

-

Demonic Bulk, Spellcasting



5

Gladiator Mutation Fgtr 1

Perform Wpn Mstr, Dazzling Display

Hero's Display (Guisarme)

-



6

Gladiator Mutation Fgtr 2

Greater Trip

-

-



7

Gladiator Mutation Fgtr 3

-

Performing Combatant

Mutagen



8

Gladiator Mutation Fgtr 4

Master Combat Performer

-

-



9

Master of Many Styles 1

Impr. Unarmed Strike, Wolf Style

Combat Reflexes

Fuse Styles



10

Master of Many Styles 2

Wolf Trip

-

-



11

Blood Conduit Primalist 5

-

Vicious Stomp

Spell Conduit



12

Blood Conduit Primalist 6

Intimidating Prowess

-

-



13

Blood Conduit Primalist 7

-

Soulless Gaze

DR 1/-



14

Blood Conduit Primalist 8

-

-

Internal Fort., Unexpected Strike



15

Blood Conduit Primalist 9

Power Attack

Fiendskin

-



NOTABLE STATISTICS
Values at 15th level with bloodrage and mutagen in red.

Ability Scores, 20-point buy
Str 25 35 16 base, +2 race, +3 level, +4 belt, +4 bloodrage, +4 mutagen, +2 size demonic bulk
Dex 18 16 14 base, +4 belt, -2 size demonic bulk
Con 18 22 14 base, +4 belt, +4 bloodrage
Int 7 5 7 base, -2 race, +2 headband, -2 mutagen
Wis 14 12 base, +2 headband
Cha 18 12 base, +2 race, +4 headband

Skills Intimidate +38 +43, Perform (act) +24, Use Magic Device +19

Traits Fate's Favored, Reactionary

Gear +1 huge furious dueling dragoncatch guisarme, +1 huge furious cruel phase locking cestus, titanic armor, +4 belt of physical perfection, headband (+2 int, wis, +4 cha), luckstone, cracked opalescent white pyramid (guisarme) in wayfinder, gauntlets of the skillful maneuver (trip), flawed scarlet and green cabochon, cracked pale green prism (attack rolls), whatever +5 Intimidate booster, various wands

TYPICAL COMBAT VALUES
Expected typical base values, including bloodrage, mutagen, haste, long arm and strong jaw (which Mary can cast using wands if not cast by ally)

Performance Combat Check Bonus +16 +4 cha, +3 bab, +3 perform skill ranks, +2 feat, +2 performance weapon, +2 luck

Attack Bonus guisarme +33/+27/+22; cestus (unarmed strike) +32/+26/+21; -4 with Power Attack +14 bab, +12 str, +1 WF, +3 enhancement, +2 luck, +1 competence ioun, +1 haste, -1 size, -4 power attack

Guisarme Trip CMB +47, +2 if AoO +14 bab, +12 str, +1 WF, +4 trip feats, +3 enhancement, +7 luck (dueling weapon), +2 gauntlets, +1 competence (ioun), +1 haste, +2 size, +2 wolf trip

Cestus Damage 3d8+15, +8 with Power Attack +12 str, +3 enhancement, +8 power attack

Speed 70 ft.; Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft., 30 ft. with guisarme

EXAMPLE OPENING TURN
Calculations based on Mary's expected base values as above and average/high CR 15 enemy values.


Move - Mary moves into a position where as many enemies and potential escape routes as possible are within 30 ft. of her.
Free - Mary enters bloodrage.
Free - Performance combat check triggered by entering bloodrage, 85% success chance (+16 vs. DC 20).
Free - Demoralize attempt against all enemies within 30 ft., 100% success chance (+43 vs. DC 36), 85% chance of making all non-immune enemies shaken for at least 1 round.
Standard - Trip attempt against enemy within 30 ft. that doesn't fly using magic, 95% chance of knocking enemy prone (+47 vs. CMD 44).
Free - Performance combat check triggered by successful combat maneuver, 85% success chance (+16 vs. DC 20).
Free - Demoralize attempt against all enemies within 30 ft., 100% success chance (+43 vs. DC 36), 85% chance of making all shaken enemies frightened for at least 1 round.
Free - Performance combat check triggered by knocking enemy prone, 85% success chance (+16 vs. DC 20).
Free - Demoralize attempt against all enemies within 30 ft., 100% success chance (+43 vs. DC 36), 85% chance of making all frightened enemies panicked for at least 1 round.
Free - Mary moves the tripped enemy, and it falls prone in an adjacent free space of her choice (Wolf Trip).
AoO - Cestus/unarmed strike Power Attack against the tripped enemy, 36.4 DPR (+28 vs. prone AC 26, 36.5/x2 average damage) and the enemy's speed is reduced by an average of 30 ft. for one round (Greater Trip, Wolf Style). There's also a 95% chance the enemy becomes sickened and bound as by dimensional anchor for at least one round (cruel and phase locking weapon).
AoO - Cestus/unarmed strike Power Attack against the tripped enemy, 36.4 DPR (+28 vs. prone AC 26, 36.5/x2 average damage) and the enemy's speed is reduced by an additional average of 30 ft. for one round (Vicious Stomp, Wolf Style). Which means it's highly likely the enemy is cowering unless it has a speed above 90 ft. (needed to move outside of Mary's melee reach with one move action) or significant defensive abilities not based on dimensional magic.
None - Mary prepares for making AoOs against the first two enemies that will enter or leave squares within her reach in an attempt to either engage her in melee or, more likely, to flee in panic (unexpected strike). Which means she may trip, move and Greater Trip/Vicious Stomp AoO them as well, likely triggering additional performance combat checks and Hero's Display demoralize attempts.




So yeah, the "performance demoralizer" concept obviously works and can be pretty darn effective. I think Mary really is a silly scary controller/debuffer, a total terror-nuke with a 490 square feet impact area that goes off multiple times per round! :smalltongue: And she's probably quite a bit more effective in most fights than any Paizo martial build focusing on damage.

But she also has quite a few weaknesses, like being hysterically feat-starved and thus needing several levels to get her thing going, having a really bad Will save and probably pretty mediocre durability overall plus little to offer outside of combat. Not to mention a large part of her combat method is simply not viable against the many enemies immune to fear/mind-affecting or trip. Might be worth changing her rage powers to Superstition and say Witch Hunter... This kind of build would also really benefit from Dreamscarred Press options (especially Path of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war) stuff).

If you simply want to get enemies frightened, it's not quite as demanding and probably opens up more class options (not that you'd have to be bloodrager for the above type of build, but the Str boosts certainly helps). But I wouldn't really recommend stopping at that since having enemies frightened instead of simply shaken will typically give you no advantage at all and sometimes simply cause problems (having to chase fleeing enemies etc). IME, panicked with its disarm and hard control effect is the first real improvement, and the total action denial of cowering is of course the "holy grail" of demoralization.

[Captain Morgan]

I don't think anyone was ever especially intimidated by Armstrong's shirt ripping. Unnerved, maybe. But I don't recall it ever psyching an opponent out.

If I were to make Armstrong, I would probably use a Geokineticist with one of the more martial focused archetypes. Or maybe a Monk or Paladin of Irori, for something that could actually figjt bare chested and with fisticuffs.

[Seward]

I'm playing a pathfinder society character based on a young version of Armstrong (he's in his 20s. Also playing his younger sister, the one who picks up the piano for her "piano lessons". They were going to be a team but my wife couldn't keep playing so...)

This is not going to be helpful for a fear-based build (if he gets someone shaken by critting or stunning them with Dragon Ferocity, they usually are dead before the shaken effect comes into play, and it isn't designed to demoralize in combat outside of using martial flexibility)

He's really not very good at social skills, and is only good at intimidate when he uses martial flexibility to shift in the feat that adds strength to intimidate. Like Armstrong, he's decent but not amazing at acrobatics and I cheat with spells to make him amazing at climbing and swimming.

What he is built for is to be very, very strong, and to hit pretty hard with his bare fists. And also to fight bare-chested, just because. He's got a tear-away courtier outfit for when he has to go formal.

An example of what he's built for - we had an adventure when he was level 3 where a bunch of people with heavy chains were dropped off a cliff into the ocean. using Monkey Fish and Ant haul (already cast), he dove into the ocean and simply put the chain over his shoulders and swam them all out, then climbed them up the cliff. His lift rate was measured in thousands of pounds, and it just gets higher and higher. For him, picking up a and moving standard adventurer is about as easy as somebody picking up human sized a balloon doll. That was without even using his mutagen.


Here's the chasse. Dragon disciple because, well, "Secrets...passed down for generations...". He's from Cheliax, their society is fairly close to that in the Alchemist series, so lots of things map well. From a old Westcrown family who has a strong military tradition but is politically weak because they gain their power from ancient family connections with dragons, not devils.

str 20, dex 12, con 14, int 8, wis 7, cha 12 human, statbumps to strength
Traits: Axe to grind (+1 damage if nobody else threatens), Magical Knack (+2 caster level)
Human Feat: Power Attack
L1 Feat: Desperate Battler (+1 atk/dmg morale if no allies within 10')
Brawler 1 (Mutagenic Mauler). That's the "Alchemy"

Sorcerer1 (Eldritch Scrapper) Martial flexibility instead of claws on a blue dragon bloodline uses pages of spell knowledge to increase his spells, by level 5 he has all of shocking grasp (3d6+3 damage, monkey fish, endure elements (bare chested in snowstorms....), feather fall, and magic missile (he punches the air twice and force-fists hit things...). He also has wands of magic fang, infernal healing, shield and ant haul which he uses frequently (in pathfinder society, wands of L1 spells can be had for favors instead of cash, so they're more common than in a normal campaign)

Also allows scroll access to lots of things handy later on (greater magic weapon,
circle of prot evil, fly) and short term (obscuring mist, see invisible, glitterdust etc)

Brawler 2 Dragon Style (bonus feat), Brawler Flurry (Two Weapon Fighting)
L3 feat Iron will (makes up for unchained monk lack of will save)
Brawler 3 combat style bonus +1 for bull rush/resisting same
Unchained monk 1 with Hamatulatsu Master providing stunning fist and wpn focus UA
L5 feat Dragon Ferocity (with 4 BAB, and +1.5 str on all unarmed attacks, power attack has significant synergy. I'm also getting 3 attacks a round because Brawler Flurry and Unchained monk flurry stack
L6 dragon disciple 1 (na+1)
L7 Brawler 4 (weapon spec and knockout, which has a very high DC)
L8 Dragon disciple 2 (toughness feat, lightning resist 5, na+1, str+2
L9 Bloodrager1 (bloodrage, claws+dragon disciple teeth) L9 feat lunge
L10 dragon disciple 3 weak breath weapon
L11 dragon disciple 4 (str+2, na+1, 2nd level spellcasting) <feat - imp crit likely)

key items are brawling bracers of armor+1, the usual belt strength & cloak resistance, eventually add spell storing to both bracers and on neck slot (empowered shocking grasp in the neck slot to make that first charge attack have some extra sting, frigid touch in the armor to stagger enemies with lots of attacks). Scrolls of false life may also figure in until he can get L2 spells on his own.

His single punch hit is pretty strong, because of the synergy with power attack and dragon ferocity. He gets a lot of attacks in spite of a relatively low BAB. If you didn't have the maniacal approach to insane high strength I have, you could maybe do swashbuckler at level 9 to get the parry/riposte thing, that's very like how Armstrong blocks insanely powerful attacks with his fist.

He's not going to have high AC, but you can get some mileage out of wands of shield and just spam it every time you open a door until his caster level gets a bit higher in the later levels and it's adequate in the lower levels (he can still use mage armor until his brawling bracers and monk levels come on line, and that plus mutagen, shield wand get him to about ac20). He'll be doing DPR races on enemies. A higher level build might use Master of Many Styles and work through the pummeling style feat chain to get pounce, but in the L1-11 range I have to work with, you can't get it to come together and simple dragon style does damage comparable to a standard 2h barbarian type.

He hits hard enough that he can just overpower most DR, but he has the option to use martial flexibility to shift in feats to give piercing or slashing on his unarmed strike, or pummeling style if all else fails, but usually he loses more by shifting out of dragon style than he gains.

Here's the level 5 attack sequence (it's where he is now)

all damage increases by +1 if he's the only one threatening
+1 to hit and damage if no allies within 10'
power attack numbers in parenthesees
unprepared: charge: +14(12) d6+12(18)
full attack +10(8)x3 d6+12(18) on first hit, d6+9(15) on other hits

with mutagen: charge: +16(14) d6+16(22)
full attack +12(10)x3 d6+16(22) on first hit, d6+11(17) on other hits

He also has a very weak stunning fist (DC10, 4 uses/day). You may laugh, but his very first use stunned a spellcaster, who didn't survive to be unstunned. As I only needed the feat to get Dragon Ferocity, and it has no action cost to use, it's a free, very low chance to stun an enemy. It's an "I win" whenever it actually works. His knockout at level 7 will be much more potent(dc19, 21 with mutagen, DC increases by 2 at level 8 and another 2 at level 9 when bloodraging).

These numbers do scale with monster hitpoints as he levels, so his impact on CR5-7 critters translates fairly well into how he'll perform later, primarily because his strength continues to increase rapidly (about +2 per level if you figure in equipment). The challenge in playing a character like this who has decent saves, decent hitpoints but low AC is you need to pick enemies carefully, or work with your team to block potent melee counterattacks that you can't simply kill in one round. Like any high damage low AC melee who has high mobility and a lot of conditional effects, this isn't a build for people without system mastery.

[Psyren]

Did anyone mention Intimidating Prowess (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/intimidating-prowess-combat---final) yet? That will let you pump Str and boost your intimidate check at the same time, plus you still get to add your Cha.

[charcoalninja]

Sacred fist Warpriest.
Bonus feats for Dazzling display line.
Slew of save or suck spells to flavour as brands of Armstrong impressiveness "Hold Person - Behold the perfect example of masculinity before you!" = paralysed.
You can still fight shirtless, punch people out and since you're a 6th level caster with the cleric list actually have your guy use alchemy.

[ArendK]

Honestly, I never even thought of using Warpriest to work him over...This is definitely going to be worth a look. I'm doing everything I can to avoid doing a "Muscle Wizard" but I've seen Warpriests cause destruction on colossal levels...

[charcoalninja]

Being able to buff up as a swift action can be combined nicely with a demoralize attempt so you flex out, cast divine favour and use Dazzling Display as a full round.

You get to demoralize and have gotten battle ready on round 1. Next round you either cast or punch for great effect.

[Âmesang]

Suddenly I want a brawler with an unnatural reach and name him "Stretch Armstrong."

[Bluydee]

Can't forget Cavalier with the Order of the Hammer for Inspiring Flex. Mix with Daring Champion and enjoy.

[Hruken]

Two levels of order of the cockatrice cavalier gives a standard action dazzling display, and it does not require a weapon in hand to use it either. Might be worth looking into.