What happens if somebody gives up a school they have spells in

[Shame]

Hypothetically, lets say Elwin the generalist wizard has decided to become an Incantatrix and thus they must give up a spell school. Elwin would like to give up enchanting but they've already learned an enchanting spell. If Elwin gives up enchanting then do they give up progression in the school or the school entirely? If so can this be counteracted with things like spell mastery?

[DrMotives]

The spells known get grandfathered in, but no new spells can be learned. It's basically like getting the Spell Reprieve feat for free in those spells. Also, if you get the Spell Reprieve feat in a prohibited school, then you can get Item Reprieve (allows you to use wands, staves, scepters, & scrolls from prohibited schools again) and then a 3rd feat on Arcane Transfiguration to remove the prohibitions entirely.

[Shame]

The spells known get grandfathered in, but no new spells can be learned. It's basically like getting the Spell Reprieve feat for free in those spells. Also, if you get the Spell Reprieve feat in a prohibited school, then you can get Item Reprieve (allows you to use wands, staves, scepters, & scrolls from prohibited schools again) and then a 3rd feat on Arcane Transfiguration to remove the prohibitions entirely.

Thanks! But it doesn't seem like it's worth giving up 3 feats to remove the prohibition on enchanting. All of the good spells in that school come from early levels anyway.

[Curmudgeon]

The spells known get grandfathered in, but no new spells can be learned.
Those spells don't stay "grandfathered in".
Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands.
known spell

A spell that an arcane spellcaster has learned and can prepare. The Wizard has learned those spells, but "not available" means the Wizard can no longer prepare spells from the prohibited school. That change excludes them from qualifying as known spells.

[Shame]

Those spells don't stay "grandfathered in". The Wizard has learned those spells, but "not available" means the Wizard can no longer prepare spells from the prohibited school. That change excludes them from qualifying as known spells.

So whats the best way to counteract this?

[Barstro]

So whats the best way to counteract this?

DM fiat. :)

[SirNMN]

So whats the best way to counteract this?
what are you trying to counter act? You could have him but and new spell book copy the spells he still can cast into it and sell the other one for fun and profit. unless he is a crater wizard then he can still use the spells known to make item for use

[Chronos]

Seems to me a lot of wizards are crater wizards.

Remember, if you're leaving scorch marks, you're not doing enough damage.

[SillySymphonies]

The Wizard has learned those spells, but "not available" means the Wizard can no longer prepare spells from the prohibited school. That change excludes them from qualifying as known spells.


Cf. Red Wizard's 'Enhanced Specialization' (DMG p. 193):

The Red Wizard must choose an additional prohibited school or schools using the rules in the Player’s Handbook. He can never again learn spells from those prohibited schools. He cannot choose the same prohibited schools he chose as a 1st-level wizard. He can still use the prohibited spells he knew prior to becoming a Red Wizard, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger.

[Curmudgeon]

Yes, Red Wizard Enhanced Specialization has special rules. Is there some reason to think those special rules apply in any other context?

[Troacctid]

So whats the best way to counteract this?

I imagine you just have to cut your losses and make do with one of the most powerful prestige classes in the game. :smallwink:

[ericgrau]

Yes, Red Wizard Enhanced Specialization has special rules. Is there some reason to think those special rules apply in any other context?
Yes we shouldn't assume a special exception applies to anyone else. Doesn't the incantatrix have the same exception though?

[Beheld]

Yes we shouldn't assume a special exception applies to anyone else. Doesn't the incantatrix have the same exception though?

The answer to that is Yes/No. The Magic of Faerun class does, and then Player's Guide to Faerun class doesn't. Not sure if they made a conscious decision to change that, or if they just got lazy and didn't copy the text/deleted it for layout reasons.

But either way the exception is no longer present in the 3.5 version of the class. The 3.0 version also got an extra spell per day on top of her previous specialization. Didn't get multiple Persists per day, but you know, can't have everything.