E6 in Pathfinder, does it work?

[Spore]

I am thinking about picking up Pathfinder again, with my campaign that started small. Since it is my first campaign and I only really know that the PCs are close together in power I would like to keep the power level small. Does E6 work in Pathfinder with the following group?

Vanilla Bard 3 (TWFing)
Freebooter Ranger 2/Gunslinger 1 (TWFing with two Pistols and two Swords)
Black Blade Magus 3 (THFing)
Shadow Caller Summoner 3
Wind Oracle 3

Problems: The bard never gets her second attacks. The Ranger is a variant human (my advice) giving him several Skill Foci instead of his regular first level feat. The Oracle player might get pissed becaus he meticulously plans all his characters ahead to 20.

cont.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Don't see why not... however that is the kinda thing to announce before char's are made.

[Spore]

Don't see why not... however that is the kinda thing to announce before char's are made.

We played two sessions and I will allow them to adjust their build accordingly.

[LTwerewolf]

I would pose the question to the party and make sure everyone is on board, rather than just tell them congrats now it's e6. When a dm changes big things like that on the fly, it's generally a sign of bad things to come.

[Spore]

I would pose the question to the party and make sure everyone is on board, rather than just tell them congrats now it's e6. When a dm changes big things like that on the fly, it's generally a sign of bad things to come.

The game is on permanent hiatus but if I'd pick up DMing again I would like to pick off where we left because the people have poured much effort into backstories and characters. I thank you for tempering my opinion with your criticism. I will ask them before I declare that I prefer to use E6.

[Florian]

I am thinking about picking up Pathfinder again, with my campaign that started small. Since it is my first campaign and I only really know that the PCs are close together in power I would like to keep the power level small. Does E6 work in Pathfinder with the following group?

PF has a more unified class chassis than 3,5 has. Auto-Scaling class features are a very big part of that. If you switch to E6 without taking that into account, some classes will end up pretty borked while other classes already have all the tools they need at hand. I think it´s fair to say that there´s a general agreement on PF class features being way more powerful and useful than mere feats would be.

Taking that into account, I´d actually say that E6 as it is doesn´t work in PF, because it has no useful function to deal with class features, especially the tiered ones.
If you want to go the route and introduce a cap, make it E8. Most classes will have their second or third iteration of class features a that point (Firearms Training 1 at the Gunslinger, 3rd arcana/revelation at the magus/oracle, and so on..). Obviously, pure martial classes still get shafted by that, as stuff like Firearms Training or Weapon Training raises all 5 levels.

If you want, compare the Inquisitor to the Witch class here to showcase it: The Inquisitor runs on Judgements. The class gets the second Judgement feature at level 8 and needs that, no way to speed that up. A Witch profits from Hexes, a non-scaling class feature. A human Witch could have the "big four" (Fortune, Misfortune, Slumber, Cackle) either at 6th or spent feats on Extra Hex and could have that at 3rd.

[charcoalninja]

One suggestion I have for E6 Pathfinder to really make it fun is to allow the purchase of Archetype abilities at the cost of a feat. So your Fighter could grab some goodies from the Martial Master Archetype and then boost his specific fighting style via another archetype. This let's people gain a tonne of class abilities without changing the power of E6 overmuch.

[the_archduke]

If you like E6, and I do too, one way to help is to give each class a feat called "Master X" (X being the individual class). Only prerequisite is 6 levels in the class. The benefit is you get one class feature normally granted at level 7 or 8.

For example, Master Wilder would get Wild Surge +3, Master Slayer can do swift action studied target, Master Inquisitor gets Second Judgment, etc

[Der_DWSage]

...If you want to go the route and introduce a cap, make it E8. Most classes will have their second or third iteration of class features a that point (Firearms Training 1 at the Gunslinger, 3rd arcana/revelation at the magus/oracle, and so on..). Obviously, pure martial classes still get shafted by that, as stuff like Firearms Training or Weapon Training raises all 5 levels.

I've actually seen a version of P6 (http://p6codex.com/)(Sadly, it only had support for core classes) that actually made most of those second iterations of their class features as 'Signature Feats.' You can take one feat as a signature feat per 10 epic feats.

I found it to work quite well for the exact reasoning you had above, while still not introducing some of the more troublesome 4th level spells into play.

[Krazzman]

I can confirm (from a single player campaign I am running) that E6 works quite good.

Things I have planned though:
after level 6 only certain items will grant a level up. These are campaign specific and will basically be the reasoning why certain magic items still exist...

For every class there will be an "Master Feat" which costs ~3 times (can be subject to change) as much as a single feat which will grant certain modifications to the level scaling.
(Example: Barbarian 6 with Master Rager feat counts his Barbarian level +2 or more[subject to change] for the Rage classfeature and Rage Powers.)
For Full Spellcasters this cost will be higher and they can unlock only certain SL4 spells.

As for your party.... you scale the combat encounter for their party. As for what they do in their free time...

IF you really do E6 look up certain magic items/enchantments that will never be available if everyone is maximum level 6 and plan accordingly/rewrite them or think of an explanation as of why it still exists (heirloom or artefact...). My WTF moment was a scrying orb... only true means to get it is being CL 8 or something like that... hence the master enchanter feat which gives +4 to spellcraft and CL for Enchanting Wondrous Items (don't know if I will need it to be for other things too yet.)

Hope this helps.

[Der_DWSage]

Erm. Magic items are actually far less troublesome in E6, as you don't actually need to know the spell. It just adds +5 to the Spellcraft DC to craft. (Admittedly, some items can easily go from 'You won't have any issues' to 'This is borderline impossible' quite quickly if you don't have the spells known.)

[Spore]

I've just realized that the Magus wanted to go Itemcrafting, focussing on his sword and the equipment of the group. Money and power is a central motif of the campaign and most of the group are not of perfect morality (the only good character is the oracle from rich and noble origins). And with a magus and an Eidolon they can certainly pull off 6th level rocket tag if given enough ressources which I wanted to avoid.

If I limit item creation the magus will be annoyed beyond belief (it is literally the central piece of his character).

[Florian]

@Issue of Feats and Class Features:

Let me remind you that E6 was created for 3.5, the edition where classes mostly had no interesting class features at all outside BAB and spells. Didn´t that use to be one of the main reasons everyone and their dog aimed at entering a PrC as fast as possible because that´s more or less the only way to gain class features? Sorcerer, I´m looking at you there!

Having to spent 1+ feats to rebuy your missing class features will have the very averse effect that it actually hurts the classes that need their class features to function beyond BAB/Spells/simple Feats.

Keep in mind that E6 tried to keep the balance on a very popular sweet spot by allowing martial classes their 1st Iterative Attack and Full Casters their 3rd Level spells while the hybrid classes fall in-between with one attack and 2nd level spells.

Having to rebuy the class features introduces the imbalance again, as most full casters will only need to rebuy their School Power, Bloodline Power, you name it, while the hybrid classes that really depend on their class features will practically stop gaining any regular feats to keep their stuff up to date.

@Crafting Magic Items

That´s a funny one: The Fighter can actually be one of the best crafters when it comes to arms, armor or wondrous items.