Feedback for my cleric/ordained champion

[Ced]

Hello,

I'm creating a new character in an existing campaign (because my previous one died unfortunately). We are playing with the Eberron campaign settings, and here are the other party members:
- A warforged paladin lvl 8
- A dwarf wizard lvl 8
- A gnome artificer lvl 8

I have to make a new level 7 character and I decided to go for a clercic/ordained champion (the DMM/persist route), because the party is a bit lacking on the melee and healing. So I will primarily orient my character as a melee character and healer (which I already mentioned that it will not be it's primary role :-) ). For the abilities, we use the 30 points buy system and I have 23 500 po to spend for my equipment.

As a bit of background info, I will play my character like a "zealot" in the sense that he is dedicated to his quests and his god (Dol Arrah). He is also not against violence, since he was placed in the church by his parents as a way to channel his agressivity(which worked more or less, but he still likes to beat the s*** out of his ennemies :-) ). My DM told me that I will be part of the inquisition cell of the church of Dol Arrah, which fits nicely with my character (and I already had in mind to take some levels in the Church Inquisitor PrC later on, so that fits perfectly).

So, here it is:

Race: Human

Class levels: Cleric of Dol Arrah 4/Ordained Champion 3

Abilities:
- Str: 14 (+2) -> 6 pts
- Dex: 8 (-1) -> 0 pts
- Con: 16 (+3) -> 10 pts
- Int: 8 (-1) -> 0 pts
- Wis: 16 (+3) -> 10 pts plus 1 for the level 4 ability increase (17 total)
- Cha: 12 (+1) -> 4 pts

Domains:
- War domain (cleric)
- Sun domain (cleric)
- Good domain (ordained champion)

Feats:
- Extend spell -> Lvl1
- Persist spell -> Human
- Divine metamagic (persist) -> Lvl 3
- Extra turning -> Lvl 6
- Power attack -> sacrificing Sun domain granted power
- Cleave -> sacrificing Good domain granted power

Skills:
What is needed for the prerequ of ordained champion and then trying to max concentration.

Equipment:
- Halberd (Dol Arrah favored weapon). For now, I don't plan to buy a magic weapon since at level 8, I will be able to cast greater magic weapon...
- Full plate (not magic neither, since I can cast magic vestment)
- +1 Heavy Animated Shield (since my weapon is 2 handed)
- Periapt of Wisdom (+2) ?

So, my questions:
1) Does this seem a decent build (doesn't have to be 100% optimized but it should have some punch in melee)?
2) I left my wisdom fairly low (16 as a starting point) but this is pretty expensive to have a 18. Instead, all my abilities increases will go there. Is this enough for in the future?
3) What are good fighter feats? I think power attack is a must have, not sure about cleave though. I wanted to take weapon specialization but I saw that you need to be a fighter for this one.
4) Any good advice for the equipment? So far it is a bit restricted, not sure what other good magic items would be interesting for me (maybe a cloack of charisma?). No items from the Libris Mortis (so, no Nightsticks :-) ).
5) What are good spells to persist (limited to PHB and spell compedium for now)? I was thinking of Ice Axe for now, and then Divine Power abd Righteous Might(when I'll have access to those).
6) Any other usefull feedback?

Thanks!

[SirNMN]

Hello,

I'm creating a new character in an existing campaign (because my previous one died unfortunately). We are playing with the Eberron campaign settings, and here are the other party members:
- A warforged paladin lvl 8
- A dwarf wizard lvl 8
- A gnome artificer lvl 8

I have to make a new level 7 character and I decided to go for a clercic/ordained champion (the DMM/persist route), because the party is a bit lacking on the melee and healing. So I will primarily orient my character as a melee character and healer (which I already mentioned that it will not be it's primary role :-) ). For the abilities, we use the 30 points buy system and I have 23 500 po to spend for my equipment.

As a bit of background info, I will play my character like a "zealot" in the sense that he is dedicated to his quests and his god (Dol Arrah). He is also not against violence, since he was placed in the church by his parents as a way to channel his agressivity(which worked more or less, but he still likes to beat the s*** out of his ennemies :-) ). My DM told me that I will be part of the inquisition cell of the church of Dol Arrah, which fits nicely with my character (and I already had in mind to take some levels in the Church Inquisitor PrC later on, so that fits perfectly).

So, here it is:

Race: Human

Class levels: Cleric of Dol Arrah 4/Ordained Champion 3

Abilities:
- Str: 14 (+2) -> 6 pts
- Dex: 8 (-1) -> 0 pts
- Con: 16 (+3) -> 10 pts
- Int: 8 (-1) -> 0 pts
- Wis: 16 (+3) -> 10 pts plus 1 for the level 4 ability increase (17 total)
- Cha: 12 (+1) -> 4 pts

Domains:
- War domain (cleric)
- Sun domain (cleric)
- Good domain (ordained champion)

Feats:
- Extend spell -> Lvl1
- Persist spell -> Human
- Divine metamagic (persist) -> Lvl 3
- Extra turning -> Lvl 6
- Power attack -> sacrificing Sun domain granted power
- Cleave -> sacrificing Good domain granted power

Skills:
What is needed for the prerequ of ordained champion and then trying to max concentration.

Equipment:
- Halberd (Dol Arrah favored weapon). For now, I don't plan to buy a magic weapon since at level 8, I will be able to cast greater magic weapon...
- Full plate (not magic neither, since I can cast magic vestment)
- +1 Heavy Animated Shield (since my weapon is 2 handed)
- Periapt of Wisdom (+2) ?

So, my questions:
1) Does this seem a decent build (doesn't have to be 100% optimized but it should have some punch in melee)?
2) I left my wisdom fairly low (16 as a starting point) but this is pretty expensive to have a 18. Instead, all my abilities increases will go there. Is this enough for in the future?
3) What are good fighter feats? I think power attack is a must have, not sure about cleave though. I wanted to take weapon specialization but I saw that you need to be a fighter for this one.
4) Any good advice for the equipment? So far it is a bit restricted, not sure what other good magic items would be interesting for me (maybe a cloack of charisma?). No items from the Libris Mortis (so, no Nightsticks :-) ).
5) What are good spells to persist (limited to PHB and spell compedium for now)? I was thinking of Ice Axe for now, and then Divine Power abd Righteous Might(when I'll have access to those).
6) Any other usefull feedback?

Thanks!

For an unoptimized game you build is fine

16 is not a low wisdome score. you could if you wanted to leave it at 15 put your level ability point and be just fine if you get the Periapt of Wisdom +2 to buff charisma by 2

where are you getting that you can sacrifice domains for feats the only thing I can think of is trading them for devotion feat but you doing it for general feats

you can't presist it but all was prepare divine insight. I think you might want to get a pearl of power or make the periapt +4

[Ced]

Thanks for the reply.


where are you getting that you can sacrifice domains for feats the only thing I can think of is trading them for devotion feat but you doing it for general feats

This is coming from the "Combat Feats" rule from the Ordained Champion:

Combat Feats: You can permanently sacrifice one or two
of your domain granted powers to acquire an equal number of
feats from the list of fighter bonus feats, as long as you meet
the prerequisites' for them. You may not sacrifice your War
domain ability for this purpose. You must choose whether or
not to make this exchange when you first become an ordained
champion, and you cannot later change your mind.


I think you might want to get a pearl of power or make the periapt +4

Yes, a pearl of power (lvl 3) might indeed be interesting if budget allows it.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You could go cleric 3/church inquisitor 1/ordained champion 3 instead.

If you are using persistent divine power anyway, you might as well go cloistered cleric and grab the 6 skill points per level and a free domain (another fighter feat!). You could replace Cleave and the Knowledge domain power with Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper, for an übercharger cleric, or Martial Study and Martial Stance.

I would personally also prefer to have 10 dex/int rather than 16 con. 30 pb would work out to 14 str/10 dex/14 con/10 int/16 wis/12 cha, or 14/10/15/10/15/12, with one level-up increase in con and the rest in wis.

I'm assuming the choice of god is RP-inspired, so your domains are mostly locked in, but I'd still recommend the Planning domain, if you can get it at first level somehow.

[Ced]

You could go cleric 3/church inquisitor 1/ordained champion 3 instead.

In order to get an extra domain to sacrifice granted power for a martial feat? This won't work since "Combat feats" specifies that you can sacrifice one or two (so, no more than two) granted powers. So, I guess this is limited to that amount...

Thanks for the feedback!

[ExLibrisMortis]

In order to get an extra domain to sacrifice granted power for a martial feat? This won't work since "Combat feats" specifies that you can sacrifice one or two (so, no more than two) granted powers. So, I guess this is limited to that amount...

Thanks for the feedback!
Ah, right, good catch. In that case, the Inquisition domain power is still good (+4 on dispel checks!), and the Knowledge domain power can be traded for Knowledge Devotion, a good feat. Church Inquisitor 1 certainly gets you more than Cleric 4.

Cleave is still a bit sub-optimal, compared to either getting Shock Trooper eventually, or getting something like Shape Soulmeld or Martial Study/Martial Stance.

[Ced]

Thanks for the reply.


I would personally also prefer to have 10 dex/int rather than 16 con.

Yes, I can indeed increase my dex to have a better AC, but I'm not too sure about the int. Sure, it gives me an additional skill point every level, but for the rest it is not really useful. And since I want to orient my character more towards a melee combatant, skills are a bit less useful (I would prefer more hps and a better wisdom :-) ). Since I'm playing a human, I'll get one extra skill point per level anyway, so this compensates a bit the low int.


Church Inquisitor 1 certainly gets you more than Cleric 4.

Yes that's true. However, for the roleplaying part, it could be more fun to take the church inqisitor later on (at level 10 for instance), which will allow the DM to make sure I have to do something to fulfill the class reauirement (must have already uncovered some corruption within that organization). That's to be discussed with my DM.


and the Knowledge domain power can be traded for Knowledge Devotion

I missed something here. From where do I get the Knowledge domain? And how can I trade it for the Knowledge Devotion feat?

[ExLibrisMortis]

I missed something here. From where do I get the Knowledge domain? And how can I trade it for the Knowledge Devotion feat?
Ah, that's from my earlier suggestion to use Cloistered Cleric (UA variant cleric). It's a cleric with half base attack, d6 hit die, bad fort save, the Knowledge domain for free, 6 skill points per level (and some extra skills), and bardic lore. Since you're already getting full base attack from divine power, you don't really need base attack from class levels, and a free domain is nice. The lost hp and fortitude save are not great, but they can be dealt with (it's 5 hp and 2 2/3 save in the end).

You can trade any domain for the relevant devotion feat, as per the Complete Champion rules. Your domains are War, Good and Sun, one of the latter two being an OC bonus domain. The Good and Sun domains have pretty bad domain feats, but if you go cloistered cleric, the Knowledge domain has a great devotion feat: you can identify monsters with a knowledge check, and get up to +5 bonus on attack and damage rolls versus that monster. With your shiny 6/level skill points, you can easily max out 3-4 knowledges, granting you (up to) +5 to attack/damage versus - for example - all constructs, dragons and magical beasts (arcana), all undead (religion), animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin (nature) and outsiders and elementals (the planes). Humanoids are under local, abberations and oozes under dungeoneering. At level 7, you should have 10 ranks and +2 from a masterwork tool, enough to get +2 on average. Of course, if you go this route, 10 int is pretty attractive, so it may not suit your character concept.

[Edgar Snow]

Note the cloistered cleric's knowledge skills if you go for Knowledge Devotion. You only have all Know skills because the Knowledge domain granted power. If you trade it for the Devotion feat, you get the normal cleric knowledge's (arcana, history*, religion, the planes), plus 1 extra knowledge (from Knowledge Devotion).

This leaves dungeoneering (aberrations, oozes), local (humanoids), or nature (animals, get, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin).

YMMV depending on the campaign as to what you pick.

*no creature types associated.

[SirNMN]

If you are using persistent divine power anyway, you might as well go cloistered cleric and grab the 6 skill points per level and a free domain (another fighter feat!). You could replace Cleave and the Knowledge domain power with Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper, for an übercharger cleric, or Martial Study and Martial Stance.[/QUOTE]

just note if you get ride of the knowledge domain you lose the knowledge skills since that come from that domain