Difference between Arcane and Divine magic

[Rift_Wolf]

...and why clerics need to research spells too.

I've been working on an idea for a campaign setting, feel free to pick it apart.

Arcane magic works very much like poorly explained science; spells work because the Wizard spent years slaving over a hot grimoire and used every available spell component to wrestle up enough power for his spells. Researching Arcane magic beyond the spell lists (which represent common spells already researched) is a matter of very carefully building up the desired power.

Divine magic is the opposite. Asking a divine power (in my world, it's Archangels; asking any higher being runs the risk of destroying the universe) for assistance is like asking a nuclear missile to light a cigarette. As Divine beings have seemingly infinite powers but limits on intelligence and morality, the divine spellcaster runs the risk of being misunderstood when he requests something off the menu. So Divine magic requires incredibly intricate research so the being answering the prayer knows precisely how to direct it's infinite might and don't melt the recipient in the process.

I haven't checked if this distinction is canon to any system/setting. Wanted to get thoughts on whether it'd fly as an explanation for researching Divine spells.

[Belac93]

Seems like a decent idea. This reminded me of something

Nuclear bombs have been used only a handful of times in all of history. They're simply too risky, too frightening and far, far too dangerous to be deployed lightly. You drop a nuclear bomb only when the stakes are overwhelming, when there is absolutely no other recourse, or when you left your lighter at home and you really, really need a smoke.
Wait, what?
That's right: Ted Taylor, a man whose balls probably need a little hand truck to carry them from place to place, once used a nuclear bomb to light a cigarette. And if you're thinking he just lit a match off of one or something (an act which would already qualify him as a badass in the minds of all but the most jaded of elite mercenary forces), that's not the case: He used a parabolic mirror to reflect and focus the radiation from a 14-kiloton nuclear explosion in the Nevada desert, THEN STUCK HIS FACE INTO IT AND LIT HIS CIGARETTE. One more time, for those of you who were just temporarily blinded halfway through the insanity of that last sentence: A man once harvested the energy from a nuclear explosion ... just to light his cigarette. He survived just fine, but there's no word on whether he gained smoke-based superpowers afterward, so we're forced to assume he did.

[Rift_Wolf]

That... Is one of the two coolest things I found out this Christmas

[HeadAcheron]

That was beautiful :biggrin:

I also love the distinction between the kinds of magic. D&D pays some lip service to the idea "Arcane = study of an impersonal power, Divine = request from a personal power," but this is a fantastic description of what that would actually look like from a character perspective :smallwink:

[the_david]

That... Is one of the two coolest things I found out this Christmas

What was the other thing?

[Rift_Wolf]

What was the other thing?

How real iridescence works. Also Victorian Beetle Dress, but that's a sub-discovery of iridescence.

[Cobalt313]

I always used the sorta weird analogy that arcane magic was like in-game trigger events while divine magic was more like console commands.

[Sam113097]

I always thought of arcane magic being more "flashy" or chaotic. A wizard's spells are accompanied by explosions, light, and are more forceful. Wizards are inventors and researchers, and their "inventions" can be hard to control. They're still working out the bugs in their spells.
Divine magic, on the other hand, is subtle. You just ask for a spell from your diety, and it's done. There aren't any bright lights, the world just changes. The diety just rearranges reality.

[gtwucla]

I always thought of arcane magic being more "flashy" or chaotic. A wizard's spells are accompanied by explosions, light, and are more forceful. Wizards are inventors and researchers, and their "inventions" can be hard to control. They're still working out the bugs in their spells.
Divine magic, on the other hand, is subtle. You just ask for a spell from your diety, and it's done. There aren't any bright lights, the world just changes. The diety just rearranges reality.

Funny, I always thought the exact opposite. Mind that's not based on any spells as written, thats just what I think what cleric and wizard magic is like.

[Dusk Raven]

There's a couple notable differences between the two in my homebrew setting. Arcane magic is essentially taking advantage of loopholes in the fabric of the universe - powerful magical effects weaved by dragons and other beings of power long ago. Sorcerers can learn and mimic them, while Wizards can use a combination of materials, words, and gestures to essentially hotwire the system.

Divine magic is essentially receiving a boon of power from a deity, which is packaged in a way that when it's unleashed, it does a specific effect. In a way, it's basically the deity using the cleric to deliver a spell in a similar way that a wizard or sorcerer can use a familiar to deliver touch spells.

Speaking of the differences, though, one point of contention I've had is: the two types have different spell lists, but not different enough. As it stands, there are some spells that can be used by both types but others that are unique. Why can't a sorcerer ever cast Cure spells unless he has a specific feat, or is a Naga, or some other weird stuff? Why can't a Cleric ever cast Fireball but he can cast Flame Strike? And what's the deal with all the spells that are shared? I really think they should either be much more similar, or much more distinct, with each side having a slew of spells, a large majority in fact, that the other can't use. Of course, there can be some overlap - psionics has a number of powers, after all, that are just psionic versions of basic effects used in spells, so that's fine.

[Jendekit]

In the setting that I've been working on for the last four months, the difference between the two is largely cultural. Because for this setting I'm using a fantasy conversion of the newest Star Wars RPG, there's rules in place for one kind of magic (the Force) and I can explore how different cultures and mindsets approach the same energy.

Cave dwelling neanderthals see it as spirits granting requests, Shong dwarf monks see it as the inner life force of the body, gnoll Mage-Queens see it as blessings from the sun warrior goddess Angshera and the moon trickster Kalduk, Abzu halflings see it as the will made manifest, and so on.

[Jack Nimble]

A man once harvested the energy from a nuclear explosion ... just to light his cigarette

Wow, that is super-crazy dangerous. I mean, smoking is really really bad for you.

[Jack Nimble]

Arcane magic works very much like poorly explained science . . . Divine magic is the opposite. Asking a divine power (in my world, it's Archangels; asking any higher being runs the risk of destroying the universe) for assistance is like asking a nuclear missile to light a cigarette. . . .

That is pretty close to the way it works in my world. Except that the results to the cleric's prayer doesn't come with a FROM field. The cleric prays, and the request is granted, and the exact details of how that happened on the celestial/fey/fiendish side isn't available to the cleric.

[Rift_Wolf]

That is pretty close to the way it works in my world. Except that the results to the cleric's prayer doesn't come with a FROM field. The cleric prays, and the request is granted, and the exact details of how that happened on the celestial/fey/fiendish side isn't available to the cleric.

I like this idea, but I'd take it one step further. In my game world, Celestial and Fiendish are the same thing; while Angels and Archangels exist, their motives and actions aren't always for good or evil. They do things for very specific reasons, because they don't have free will and are woven into the fabric of the universe. Different spheres have conflicts of interest, though; when you cast a divine spell, chances are something will see how it fits into its private scheme and allow it. So while Angel of Death might say your magical Shields weren't effective, Angel of Mercy might offset some of the damage, or Angel of Love might give you a last chance to see your wife before succumbing. Gaining the attention of multiple spheres and repeatedly cherry picking their responses isn't recommended; the base price for any request to an Angel, no matter how small, is one day of your life (make sure, when making the Pact, that they take them off the end). A character asked a Memitim (Angel of Death) when he'd die; the Memitim replied 'it would have been this date, had you not asked'. Knowing how long you'll live is one thing; knowing your maximum possible lifespan is another.