A Page at a Time

[hrak]

Hello,
I wanted to address something that has often bothered me about some discussions on these forms and I'm hoping my experience of a long term reader can shed some light on the issue.

I've been reading Order of the Stick since my math teacher taught me how to play D&D 3.5 when I was 12 years old, also introducing me to the comic. I'm 22 years old now. My account alone is 8 years old and while I haven't posted much, I've lurked for many many years, almost always reading the disucussion thread for each new strip. Watching this comic grow and growing up with it has been incredibly rewarding and I give my deepest thanks to Rich for sharing his brilliant imagination with us all. It has been a profound inspiration to me.

As I've watched the story unfold, I've noticed a few trends in the audience's response. Usually wild assertions post in strip discussion threads. While chritism is an important part of discussing any work, its important to make sure those ctrisisms arent based on false assumtions. And I'd like to remind you all of three things I beleive every reader, new and old needs to consider:

1) Rich is not going to and should not be expected to completely explain a story element as soon as its introduced.

This is a trap that many readers fall into, assuming that there is a mistake, a plot hole, or a fumble in Richs writing just because they haven't given him time to... Write! We get one page at a time. Never forget that.

2) The naritive drives the comic, and the story comes before everything else.

This has not been a gag a day comic in a long long time. Rich has a story to tell. Not every page you tear out of a book will be exciting or thrilling. Theres more to a naritive then those pages of hot action. That's how a well crafted story with complex characters works. Rich is writing a book series. We get one page at a time. Never forget that.

3) The comic reads differently complied.

When rereading the comic I am constantly startled by how well it flows, all the tid bits of foreshadowing and the seeds sown hundreds of comics in advance. Story arcs are often much larger the we ever imagined. The tale is deep and each strip isn't an episode, its a page. And we get one page at a time. Never forget that.



I know Rich has said many of these things before. But its easy to forget as we go about our daily lives and come back to our beloved comic. As we move into this new arc please keep these ideas in mind. We are ever so lucky to get to read each page of a book as its written. But just imagine the pressure on the author, who has to write each page perfectly the first time.

[schmunzel]

in Ewigkeit Amen

sch

[Doctor West]

Hear hear. I swear I see more complaining and leaping to conclusions here than on political boards.
Exposition that hasn't happened yet is not a plot hole.

[DaggerPen]

We are ever so lucky to get to read each page of a book as its written. But just imagine the pressure on the author, who has to write each page perfectly the first time.

Very well said.

I remember during the height of the gladiator tournament arc, I was really starting to wonder where the story was going. There were so many threads, and the level of deception perpetrated to keep Tarquin from knowing the Order were a team seemed unnecessarily convoluted. But now that it's all said and done, it works beautifully.

It's not like you can't criticize the storyline, or think some development didn't work quite right. (I'm still not really satisfied with the conclusion to Therkla's arc, myself.) But when a plot element is introduced as a punchline in the last panel of a strip, I feel like the author deserves to have cries of "plot hole" suspended without getting at least one more page to explain it all.

[Terrador]

Exposition that hasn't happened yet is not a plot hole.

Permission to steal this? It is wonderful.

[ti'esar]

But when a plot element is introduced as a punchline in the last panel of a strip, I feel like the author deserves to have cries of "plot hole" suspended without getting at least one more page to explain it all.

Yeah, this particularly bugs me. This may not have been a gag-a-day comic for a long time, but except when things are really heavy or action-packed, being funny is still one of the main objectives of any individual strip. I feel like people ought to acknowledge that rather than try to undercut it by insisting that everything be explained in full detail immediately.

[Wildroses]

I've never really bought the argument that because a webcomic artist releases one strip per [whatever] they should be designing it so that it flows properly as a one per whatever strip. I haven't just seen it here, there was one really obnoxious guy on Alice Grove (a story heavy webcomic based on unresolved questions) claiming the same thing at tedious length.

It always seems to me a very egocentric point of view. Think about the entire number people who will read a webcomic. The majority of people who will read the story are going to be doing so after the majority have been published, either online or in book format. Insisting the story be changed so the pacing caters to the benefit of the minority, who have to read it one page at a time, seems kind of self-centered.

It surprises me that it doesn't occur to unsatisfied people to just stop reading the comic for a while, because that's what I did. I was uninterested in the gnome town section in which Haley has to deal with Crystal and Bozzok, so I just stopped reading it for a couple of months. It worked out great for me. When I returned I read it all in one hit (it didn't take me an excessive amount of time either), reflected on how it nicely resolved the dangling plot thread of Bozzok and Crystal threatening the Starshines (opening the way for them to safely return to the Thieves Guild at story end) and appreciated how Haley's character had been developed as she now feels she has moved beyond needing a feud with Crystal.

I didn't resent that mini-arc being there as I could now see why it had been included. You do have to be careful with that, Rich does have a habit of including things you may not understand the purpose of for a long time. And then I became so involved in the godsmoot arc I now check each day to see if a comic has been posted. Taking a break for a couple of months gave me a happy ending. People should really try it.

[BaronOfHell]

Exposition that hasn't happened yet is not a plot hole.

Speaking of which, I didn't like the plot when the party was controlled by giant space cats. Just didn't make sense to me I guess.

[ufo]

I rarely post on these forums anymore, but I simply had to crawl out of my hidey-hole to just say that I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiment. Like you (the OP) I was introduced to this comic when I was only 12 years old. Back then, I followed a lot of webcomics and I was actually introduced to OotS because another webcomic I regularly checked made a childish criticism about it being too talky and long-winded - I think it was CAD, which was (and probably still is, if it's even around) a cesspool of macho-bull**** and playground humour.

Ironically, I immediately stopped reading that webcomic and have ever since followed OotS update-to-update. Online or otherwise, I've always loved the comic medium and this one struck a vibe with me for actually having a greater ambition than making readers chuckle once a week/issue and then moving on with a complete disregard for consistency and coherence.

And well, in the eight-ish years since I started reading, it's been the same thing - just as you're saying: people on these forums are not always super good at biding their time and letting the story unfold. Last year, I did an archive-binge for the first time since I started reading and I clearly remember being very impressed with the pacing and coherence of the story when you read it in one sitting. Ever since I started reading, I've often had the idea that I should ignore the comic for a year or more so I could return to a lot of content at once, but soon I realised that I'm actually pretty anxious to watch the story unfold page-by-page and that even after all these years, most story arcs and plot points are pretty clear in my memory anyways, so it's not as if I read the new pages without context.

Well, I forgot where I was going with this so let me just say this: I've been reading this comic a page at a time for almost half of my life and it has certainly paid off. So just sit back and enjoy the ride - I'm confident that what's in store will be well worth the wait, even though it's hard to imagine how all the pieces fit together.

[Kareasint]

When I read this comic, I try to look at it from a gaming standpoint. What would I do in the character's place? That could be said to be the extent of my speculation.

This type of format is one where you cannot continuously try to guess what will happen next. The author probably has a storyboard that he works by and is sticking to it. Just enjoy the book, one page at a time. When it gets printed, I recommend buying the books if you can because Rich's commentaries are interesting to read.

[lenon3579]

Hello,
I wanted to address something that has often bothered me about some discussions on these forms and I'm hoping my experience of a long term reader can shed some light on the issue.

[...]
I know Rich has said many of these things before. But its easy to forget as we go about our daily lives and come back to our beloved comic. As we move into this new arc please keep these ideas in mind. We are ever so lucky to get to read each page of a book as its written. But just imagine the pressure on the author, who has to write each page perfectly the first time.

You are perfectly right, you know. I'm 30 now and I read this comic since I was 22. Eight years now. But I've only noticed the forums these last two months. And I'm already getting tired of all of these "plot hole!" morons.



Exposition that hasn't happened yet is not a plot hole.

That, sir, deserves to be turned into a quote in someone's signature. May I have the honor?

[Quild]

OP speaks wisely.


Yet... I don't think you can oppose someone to be dubious about HPoH leaving the Godsmoot before the final decision was made considering all we learnt about how the Godsmoot works.
Nor to be surprised that the elders might vote while under some kind of Domination effect.

Now there are several ways to react to such surprising things:
- I didn't noticed anything strange in the plot.
- I'm confident that Rich will cover this later.
- I wonder how this will fit with what I had in mind about how this whole thing works.
- I wonder how this will fit with what I know about how this whole thing works.
- That shouldn't be possible! Surely there is a mistake here!
- Author is lame and can't even make his own story coherent with itself, we already knew he was a terrible drawer but he has now proven to be a terrible writer. Give me back the time I spent reading the comics this last decade or I'll sue you for this.

Some reactions may be more inappropriate than some others.

[Onyavar]

We get one page at a time. Never forget that.

Thanks.

I just wrote a lengthy answer in one of the many complaint threads - I could have saved a lot of time. What is great about this thread is that we have so far only people who subscribe to the idea. That shows nicely how many people already internalized the points you raised; I know I did.

[hrak]

I love all the points you all have been making. And while I cant respond to them all personally, it helps me legitimize my own observations reading so many of you have witnessed the same kinds of unfounded criticisms.

I fully support questioning how something might work out, or criticizing a plot element after its fully run its course. But I find it intellectually dishonest to claim something is wrong with the story before the story has been told. Yes we can reference earlier pages and surmise that something does not entirely make sense yet. But how can we claim that it will never make sense? That is ridiculous. Making such claims imply that you are, as Elan put it, a Future Psychic. Not only able to see the future, but also read Rich's mind in the future.

Also a quick note. Do not let the frequency of comic uploads effect your perception of story flow, though I do not think anyone who has posted in this thread has a problem understand that concept. Even rereading the godsmoot so far, it flows rather nicely and I do not think anything is tedious. It gives us some very interesting insights into the gods and is setting up the plot for the rest of this book. This was not the climax of the book. This was setting the stage for what is to come.

[Doctor West]

Geez, you guys, it wasn't that great a line. *blush*
Needless to say I don't mind it being reused or sigged or whatever.

[EmperorSarda]

Speaking of which, I didn't like the plot when the party was controlled by giant space cats. Just didn't make sense to me I guess.

You missed a crucial detail. They were actually miniature giant space hamsters.

[Malfarian]

I fully agree, the Giant is a GENIUS. He continues to surprise all these folks who religiously read his story. The problem here is that people are thinking they're getting a conclusion, when instead they're getting a backstory to the NEXT story.


Hello,
I wanted to address something that has often bothered me about some discussions on these forms and I'm hoping my experience of a long term reader can shed some light on the issue.

I've been reading Order of the Stick since my math teacher taught me how to play D&D 3.5 when I was 12 years old, also introducing me to the comic. I'm 22 years old now. My account alone is 8 years old and while I haven't posted much, I've lurked for many many years, almost always reading the disucussion thread for each new strip. Watching this comic grow and growing up with it has been incredibly rewarding and I give my deepest thanks to Rich for sharing his brilliant imagination with us all. It has been a profound inspiration to me.

As I've watched the story unfold, I've noticed a few trends in the audience's response. Usually wild assertions post in strip discussion threads. While chritism is an important part of discussing any work, its important to make sure those ctrisisms arent based on false assumtions. And I'd like to remind you all of three things I beleive every reader, new and old needs to consider:

1) Rich is not going to and should not be expected to completely explain a story element as soon as its introduced.

This is a trap that many readers fall into, assuming that there is a mistake, a plot hole, or a fumble in Richs writing just because they haven't given him time to... Write! We get one page at a time. Never forget that.

2) The naritive drives the comic, and the story comes before everything else.

This has not been a gag a day comic in a long long time. Rich has a story to tell. Not every page you tear out of a book will be exciting or thrilling. Theres more to a naritive then those pages of hot action. That's how a well crafted story with complex characters works. Rich is writing a book series. We get one page at a time. Never forget that.

3) The comic reads differently complied.

When rereading the comic I am constantly startled by how well it flows, all the tid bits of foreshadowing and the seeds sown hundreds of comics in advance. Story arcs are often much larger the we ever imagined. The tale is deep and each strip isn't an episode, its a page. And we get one page at a time. Never forget that.



I know Rich has said many of these things before. But its easy to forget as we go about our daily lives and come back to our beloved comic. As we move into this new arc please keep these ideas in mind. We are ever so lucky to get to read each page of a book as its written. But just imagine the pressure on the author, who has to write each page perfectly the first time.

[gken1]

Keep it up Rich - been following since a friend bought it at Gencon 2005 and got me into it!

[Chronos]

The other thing about a webcomic being published a page at a time is that it gives a lot of time for speculation. With an ordinary novel, you get clues and foreshadowing, but usually, about the time that you've had a chance to figure out the clues, you've reached the end of the book anyway. When you read the reveal, it's easy to be surprised, because you haven't had much time to think things through. With a webcomic, though, it's much harder to introduce foreshadowing without spoiling the surprise for your readers, since they'll have days to ponder each and every new development, and to figure out how it fits in with what's already known. And of course, this effect is even worse when you've got a discussion forum: As soon as one reader figures out some hint, everyone knows it.

[Killer Angel]

I've been reading Order of the Stick since my math teacher taught me how to play D&D 3.5 when I was 12 years old, also introducing me to the comic.

You're a lucky men, do you know it, right? :smallwink:

[Psyren]

Agreed on the false assumption problem (*points to sig*).

I'd like to add, for those who don't know, that there are plenty of other subforums on this board with all kinds of topics to discuss while we're waiting for new strips. Or even other boards entirely (it's a big web out there.) If something in a given strip seems incomplete or doesn't seem to make sense, join us somewhere else to have fun until said thing is explained and you won't even notice the time passing. Complaining about it on 22 won't do anything but potentially annoy our mutual benefactor, if he even reads your exhaustive critique at all :smalltongue: